Daniel 9:24-27, Seventy Literal Weeks Explained?

[Naomi25]

@Naomi25 In the end it's about seeing a pattern in Scripture, diligently studied, rather than projecting a system onto Scripture...right? :)

Mmm…pattern…maybe? What’s really there, as opposed to people finding hidden meaning in texts that they’ve stitched together. There are cults aplenty that have found plenty of things from the pages of scripture that are just not there. People tend to see what they want to see. And what they want to see is shaped by biases and ideas they already have. We can’t really help it…we’re all shaped by something.
I’m becoming more convinced that pre-arranged, boxed ‘systems’ of end times just don’t, quite…fit right. The more I learn about the context scripture was written in…the Jewish culture itself, the form of literature, how they understood life, genre, literary use…that sort of thing…there more ‘bang for my buck’, I suppose you could say, I’m getting out of my bible. It’s not changing any of the truly big, salvational things, but so many of the little, weird, cultural references suddenly have meaning now, and I’m like…”oh! That’s what that means!” I think a lot of end times references…especially Revelation, plumb the OT and those cultural differences that we just don’t get now, sitting here in our Western world.
I like learning…:)

 

[Truth7t7]

Mmm…pattern…maybe? What’s really there, as opposed to people finding hidden meaning in texts that they’ve stitched together. There are cults aplenty that have found plenty of things from the pages of scripture that are just not there. People tend to see what they want to see. And what they want to see is shaped by biases and ideas they already have. We can’t really help it…we’re all shaped by something.
I’m becoming more convinced that pre-arranged, boxed ‘systems’ of end times just don’t, quite…fit right. The more I learn about the context scripture was written in…the Jewish culture itself, the form of literature, how they understood life, genre, literary use…that sort of thing…there more ‘bang for my buck’, I suppose you could say, I’m getting out of my bible. It’s not changing any of the truly big, salvational things, but so many of the little, weird, cultural references suddenly have meaning now, and I’m like…”oh! That’s what that means!” I think a lot of end times references…especially Revelation, plumb the OT and those cultural differences that we just don’t get now, sitting here in our Western world.
I like learning…:)

I fully agree, like people that proclaim Daniel's (Seventy Weeks) has a hidden meaning to mean (Four Hundred Ninety Years) with a floating 70th week of Millennia and waiting for a claimed future fulfillment?

Now that's a fairy tale in fables, from the land beyond the rainbows in the kingdom of Oz

 

[Naomi25]

I fully agree, like people that proclaim Daniel's (Seventy Weeks) has a hidden meaning to mean (Four Hundred Ninety Years) with a floating 70th week of Millennia and waiting for a claimed future fulfillment?

Now that's a fairy tale in fables, from the land beyond the rainbows in the kingdom of Oz

Again, I must say….mmm. You see, while I don’t, myself, agree precisely with Dispensationalists, neither do I believe we have exegetical reason to label them fairytales. The reason? If we took all the separate verses out of their respective passages in the OT that we know, now, to speak of Christ’s first coming, we could easily say that the Jews did not see them for what they were for the same reason….”stitching together texts to find meaning”. In that particular case, there was meaning….incredible, essential meaning.
I think people are liable to find meaning in what is not there, but neither should we dismiss things based solely upon that. I like to see a bit more before I dismiss out of hand…like direct biblical contradiction. The problem, as I see it, in dismissing a future period of time that fits a “7 year period”, is the references in both Daniel…multiple chapters, and in Revelation, that speak of repeated 3.5 years. It’s not, by any means, a slam dunk for the Dispensationalists, but I do believe we ought not label them “fairytales” and mock them.

 

[Truth7t7]

The problem, as I see it, in dismissing a future period of time that fits a “7 year period”, is the references in both Daniel…multiple chapters, and in Revelation, that speak of repeated 3.5 years. It’s not, by any means, a slam dunk for the Dispensationalists, but I do believe we ought not label them “fairytales” and mock them.

No place in scripture does it speak of a "Repeated" 3.5 years as you claim

The tribulation starts at the revealing of (The Beast) in Jerusalem proclaiming to be God Messiah

The (Two Witnesses) are present on earth the entire time (The Beast) is given power, they are overcome and killed in the final days of earths existence

The (Two Witnesses) are given power 1260 days, and (The Beast) 42 months, they are "Parallel Time Fames" of 3.5 years, not chronological as dispensationalism falsely teaches

You will closely note below the two witnesses are raised to heaven, and in the "same hour" the 2nd woe takes place, and the 3rd woe comes quickly in the 7th and final trump

You will closely note revelation 11:18 is the "Final Judgement" (The End)

Yes scriptureteacges if a 3.5 year tribulation, not dispensationalism's false 7 years

Revelation 11:12-18KJV
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

 

[Naomi25]

No place in scripture does it speak of a "Repeated" 3.5 years as you claim

The tribulation starts at the revealing of (The Beast) in Jerusalem proclaiming to be God Messiah

The (Two Witnesses) are present on earth the entire time (The Beast) is given power, they are overcome and killed in the final days of earths existence

The (Two Witnesses) are given power 1260 days, and (The Beast) 42 months, they are "Parallel Time Fames" of 3.5 years, not chronological as dispensationalism falsely teaches

You will closely note below the two witnesses are raised to heaven, and in the "same hour" the 2nd woe takes place, and the 3rd woe comes quickly in the 7th and final trump

You will closely note revelation 11:18 is the "Final Judgement" (The End)

Yes scriptureteacges if a 3.5 year tribulation, not dispensationalism's false 7 years

Revelation 11:12-18KJV
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Well…that seemed to strike a nerve.

Dan 7:25; Dan 12:7,11; Rev 12:14

All reference a general 3.5 year period of time. Whether this refers to a single 3.5 years or several 3.5 years is up for theological debate, I suspect. Currently, it’s a debate that I care little for. And considering how you went just a little bit “bull at a red rag” at a general, casual observation, that was clearly…I thought…not a theological treatise on the subject, in need of defending or furious rebuttal…I think I’ll just leave my comments there.

 

[Truth7t7]

Well…that seemed to strike a nerve.

Dan 7:25; Dan 12:7,11; Rev 12:14

All reference a general 3.5 year period of time. Whether this refers to a single 3.5 years or several 3.5 years is up for theological debate, I suspect. Currently, it’s a debate that I care little for. And considering how you went just a little bit “bull at a red rag” at a general, casual observation, that was clearly…I thought…not a theological treatise on the subject, in need of defending or furious rebuttal…I think I’ll just leave my comments there.

Thanks for the response, you mentioned 7 years and 3.5 repeated years

The future tribulation will be 3.5 years, and the time frame of the two Witnesses and the beast are "Parallel" and not chronological as dispensationalism teaches

The suggestion that the book of Revelation is seen in chronological order is "major error" and misleading, its parallel teachings of same events

Example: the final judgement is seen in Revelation 11:18 & in Revelation 20:11-15, parallel teachings of the same "Final Judgement" (The End)

Hope you have learned the presented truth, and that its received on good soil

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Naomi25]

Thanks for the response, you mentioned 7 years and 3.5 repeated years

The future tribulation will be 3.5 years, and the time frame of the two Witnesses and the beast are "Parallel" and not chronological as dispensationalism teaches

The suggestion that the book of Revelation is seen in chronological order is "major error" and misleading, its parallel teachings of same events

Example: the final judgement is seen in Revelation 11:18 & in Revelation 20:11-15, parallel teachings of the same "Final Judgement" (The End)

Hope you have learned the presented truth, and that its received on good soil

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Look…I tend to agree with you that Revelation is not chronological.
However…simply stating that it is, and anything else is both fantastical and in error…leaving your own, largely unsupported I might add, view as “presented truth”…is problematic.
If you feel Dispensationalists are incorrect in their interpretations, I feel it would be much more beneficial for all involved if you were to point out, biblically, where and how they were in error, rather than calling them folks lost in fairy tales…and then showing, again, carefully from scripture, where the truth may be found, rather than just stating that you hold it.
I appreciate you’ve mentioned the “parallel” judgements from Revelation, but surely you see that when making the claims you have, both against some and for your own understanding…simple passage references to general ideas really aren’t sufficient. Proper exegesis to prove ones point demands a person show the careful tracking through scripture of the doctrine or thought being presented as truth or dismissed as irrelevant.

 

[Truth7t7]

Look…I tend to agree with you that Revelation is not chronological.
However…simply stating that it is, and anything else is both fantastical and in error…leaving your own, largely unsupported I might add, view as “presented truth”…is problematic.
If you feel Dispensationalists are incorrect in their interpretations, I feel it would be much more beneficial for all involved if you were to point out, biblically, where and how they were in error, rather than calling them folks lost in fairy tales…and then showing, again, carefully from scripture, where the truth may be found, rather than just stating that you hold it.
I appreciate you’ve mentioned the “parallel” judgements from Revelation, but surely you see that when making the claims you have, both against some and for your own understanding…simple passage references to general ideas really aren’t sufficient. Proper exegesis to prove ones point demands a person show the careful tracking through scripture of the doctrine or thought being presented as truth or dismissed as irrelevant.

Your claims I dont prove my claims scripturally is laughable, and that's an understatement

My opinions posted are scripturally supported, with the proper interpretation applied, proper exegesis is to take (Seventy Weeks) written at face value, however thanks for your opinion

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Naomi25]

Your claims I dont prove my claims scripturally is laughable, and that's an understatement

My opinions posted are scripturally supported, with the proper interpretation applied, proper exegesis is to take (Seventy Weeks) written at face value, however thanks for your opinion

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

Sir, I most certainly have not read all your posts, so you might indeed have done as you claimed in them. In your responses to me, however, I have not see anywhere near the sort of scriptural evidence or exegetical reasoning I would insist upon when making the sort of claims you do. The claims I’m speaking of are not just: “here’s how I see this”….but “you folks are plumb wrong and off with the fairies and I speak the truth of God, thus listen to me”.

What ultimately casts doubt on The Dispensational take of “the 70 weeks” is that their exegetical walk through that passage fails to explain the lack of a gap they find there. My point is that you seem to, likewise, believe you can quote a bible verse or passage and say “here’s what that means” without any more weight than their “there’s a gap” claim. Why should we believe them on that? Why should we believe you on your interpretation? Where else in scripture supports what you are saying? I’m not saying it’s not there, I’m trying to encourage you to present it. Show us how the bible tells us, reveals to us, the true meaning of the 70 weeks. Pull in Jewish history and genre, they all help, but start and end with other passages. But please, don’t think you can just quote a verse and say “this is my interpretation, and it is true”, because we have no real reason to believe you or listen to you.

 

[NewMusic]

The week of years has been proven, incredibly, by a well-respected guy named Chuck Missler. He published this paper back in 2004 and calculated to the actual Day of Christ presenting Himself as their King, and includes Jesus' statement that the Jews should have known the day of His visitation (since it was foretold them by Daniel), and Jesus delayed His getting crucified, "Mine hour is not yet come", and then personally arranged His own day of being cut off in a context that is weighty.

This reading is fairly short, but incredibly enjoyable to read.

The Precision of Prophecy Daniel’s 70 Weeks - Chuck Missler

 

[Truth7t7]

Sir, I most certainly have not read all your posts, so you might indeed have done as you claimed in them. In your responses to me, however, I have not see anywhere near the sort of scriptural evidence or exegetical reasoning I would insist upon when making the sort of claims you do. The claims I’m speaking of are not just: “here’s how I see this”….but “you folks are plumb wrong and off with the fairies and I speak the truth of God, thus listen to me”.

What ultimately casts doubt on The Dispensational take of “the 70 weeks” is that their exegetical walk through that passage fails to explain the lack of a gap they find there. My point is that you seem to, likewise, believe you can quote a bible verse or passage and say “here’s what that means” without any more weight than their “there’s a gap” claim. Why should we believe them on that? Why should we believe you on your interpretation? Where else in scripture supports what you are saying? I’m not saying it’s not there, I’m trying to encourage you to present it. Show us how the bible tells us, reveals to us, the true meaning of the 70 weeks. Pull in Jewish history and genre, they all help, but start and end with other passages. But please, don’t think you can just quote a verse and say “this is my interpretation, and it is true”, because we have no real reason to believe you or listen to you.

Thanks for the response, it's not my goal to convince or persuade you, but to provide what God has shown me, it's that simple

I dont follow your conditional reasoning or direction, I follow Gods Spirit that dwells within me

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Jay Ross]

I don't follow your conditional reasoning or direction, I follow Gods Spirit that dwells within me

I think that the point being made is that few readers of this forum can see that "God's Spirit" is dwelling within you, because of your persistent berating of the members of this forum in your posts. My sense is that they are actually questioning the source of the spirit that you say you have.

Shalom

 

[Truth7t7]

I think that the point being made is that few readers of this forum can see that "God's Spirit" is dwelling within you, because of your persistent berating of the members of this forum in your posts. My sense is that they are actually questioning the source of the spirit that you say you have.

Shalom

Thanks for your "Opinion" and your claim of ability to read minds and hearts on the forum, regarding God's Spirit that dwells within me

Your false claim of "berating" would go in the many personal attacks in your resume, that have been brought upon me, stop the personal attacks

Quote Jay Ross Post #66 & #77: Truth7t7 Is A "Lost Cause"

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Jay Ross]

Thanks for your "Opinion" and your claim of ability to read minds and hearts on the forum

Your false claim of "berating" would go in the many personal attacks in your resume, that have been brought upon me, stop the personal attacks

Quote Jay Ross Post #66 & #77: Truth7t7 Is A "Lost Cause"

Jesus Is The Lord

Bye, but you keep coming back with your questionable opinions.

Do you ever ask yourself the question "WHY?"

No need to reply.

 

[Truth7t7]

Bye, but you keep coming back with your questionable opinions.

Do you ever ask yourself the question "WHY?"

No need to reply.

Stop the personal attacks

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Naomi25]

Thanks for the response, it's not my goal to convince or persuade you, but to provide what God has shown me, it's that simple

I dont follow your conditional reasoning or direction, I follow Gods Spirit that dwells within me

In Love, Jesus Is The Lord

As is your right. However, one wonders why you post if it’s not your goal to convince or persuade people. This board is full of people who, like you, are convinced that, under direct leading of the Spirit, they are presenting “truth”.

As a Christian who takes Gods word as both true and precious, when I come across any and every “truth” claim, especially ones that are being touted as Spirit led as truth among flocks of lies or fantasy, I can do no other than to “test the spirits”. Which is what I have been attempting to do in encouraging you to back up your truth claims with the only truth that holds water; Gods word.

If you feel that convincing me via Gods word is not important, then I, while recognising that as your absolute right, must tell you that I do not feel it important to listen to what you claim to be truth. If you dismiss that as logic not based on the Spirits direction…fine. I remain comfortable in my obedience to clear scriptural teaching.

 

[Naomi25]

Convincing you of truth isnt the mission, convincing your husband or father would be of biblical purpose!

Last I checked Naomi is the name of a female, subordinate to a husband or father, a biblical fact, I love God for his words of truth below, don't you??

1 Timothy 2:11-12KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35KJV
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Jesus Is The Lord

Forgive me…women are permitted to teach children, and every child ought to know that testing the spirits is well known and essential doctrine. I’m anguished that you clearly weren’t aware of this passage and thus this became a teaching moment.
Perhaps you should leave this board and become familiar with this obvious important imperative from our Lord, via the apostle John.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I would like to point out to our members that this is a Christian forum not a church. All denominations, races and gender are welcome to post here.
Thanks

 

[farouk]

Mmm…pattern…maybe? What’s really there, as opposed to people finding hidden meaning in texts that they’ve stitched together. There are cults aplenty that have found plenty of things from the pages of scripture that are just not there. People tend to see what they want to see. And what they want to see is shaped by biases and ideas they already have. We can’t really help it…we’re all shaped by something.
I’m becoming more convinced that pre-arranged, boxed ‘systems’ of end times just don’t, quite…fit right. The more I learn about the context scripture was written in…the Jewish culture itself, the form of literature, how they understood life, genre, literary use…that sort of thing…there more ‘bang for my buck’, I suppose you could say, I’m getting out of my bible. It’s not changing any of the truly big, salvational things, but so many of the little, weird, cultural references suddenly have meaning now, and I’m like…”oh! That’s what that means!” I think a lot of end times references…especially Revelation, plumb the OT and those cultural differences that we just don’t get now, sitting here in our Western world.
I like learning…:)

@Naomi25 Prayer and meditation in Scripture, right? rather than instant solutions...

 

[Addy]

Last I checked Naomi is the name of a female, subordinate to a husband or father, a biblical fact, I love God for his words of truth below, don't you??

1 Timothy 2:11-12KJV
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

1 Corinthians 14:34-35KJV
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Jesus Is The Lord

and that my friends is a perfect EXAMPLE of ABUSE of scripture...or as I call it... scripture flinging...
The one who stoops to this low level is usually one filled with PRIDE.