Critical thinking and education is linked to loss of faith

[Finis Fidei]

The thought occurred to me "if Critical thinking doesn't need to lead people to God, maybe critical thinking needs to critique itself"

A men who thinks he arrived at Atheism through critical thinking is a fool. All of our beliefs are emotional. Someone who leaves the faith because of "critical thinking" is wrong about the reason. Everyone who has left the faith has left for emotional reasons (specifically, because Christians tend to be horrible people who burden the faith of others, rather than help build it).

In principle, God can't be proved to me because I can come up with "critical thinking" objections to even any conceivable, hypothetical proof. If God took me to Heaven and talked to me face to face, afterwards I could dismiss it as a false memory or insanity. I could dismiss it as an elaborate practical joke, or in a hundred other ways.

I don't even believe in my own existence, and I experience me all the time.

Jesus commanded, "Love one another just as I have loved you." If Christians did this, faith would grow. But, Christians don't do this. Christians lie and impose an impossible and evil burden of loving everyone, which destroys faith. Christians want me to think they're righteous by claiming God, if not themselves, loves everyone. There's no logic here about proving or disproving God. It's the emotional impact of self-righteousness, and an impossible and evil burden that leads people away from faith.

We could talk about logic. Jesus told his followers to reciprocate love between each other. How many Evangelicals are willing to recognize that his is nothing close to loving everyone? Implicatively, it's a contradiction of loving everyone. Yet, one of the most widely accepted Christian doctrines is that God loves everyone. Logic doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the emotional circle-jerk that Christians are in, telling each other over and over that God loves everyone.

Does a Christian become an Atheist because of critical thinking? Did he stop go through "No, God doesn't love everyone" before becoming an Atheist? Then, where's the critical thinking?

 

[APAK]

A men who thinks he arrived at Atheism through critical thinking is a fool. All of our beliefs are emotional. Someone who leaves the faith because of "critical thinking" is wrong about the reason. Everyone who has left the faith has left for emotional reasons (specifically, because Christians tend to be horrible people who burden the faith of others, rather than help build it).

In principle, God can't be proved to me because I can come up with "critical thinking" objections to even any conceivable, hypothetical proof. If God took me to Heaven and talked to me face to face, afterwards I could dismiss it as a false memory or insanity. I could dismiss it as an elaborate practical joke, or in a hundred other ways.

I don't even believe in my own existence, and I experience me all the time.

Jesus commanded, "Love one another just as I have loved you." If Christians did this, faith would grow. But, Christians don't do this. Christians lie and impose an impossible and evil burden of loving everyone, which destroys faith. Christians want me to think they're righteous by claiming God, if not themselves, loves everyone. There's no logic here about proving or disproving God. It's the emotional impact of self-righteousness, and an impossible and evil burden that leads people away from faith.

We could talk about logic. Jesus told his followers to reciprocate love between each other. How many Evangelicals are willing to recognize that his is nothing close to loving everyone? Implicatively, it's a contradiction of loving everyone. Yet, one of the most widely accepted Christian doctrines is that God loves everyone. Logic doesn't matter. The only thing that matters is the emotional circle-jerk that Christians are in, telling each other over and over that God loves everyone.

Does a Christian become an Atheist because of critical thinking? Did he stop go through "No, God doesn't love everyone" before becoming an Atheist? Then, where's the critical thinking?

Those wearing the Christian label are not all Christians in spirit, in heart. In fact most are not true Christians. You are wrestling with the wrong crowd.

There are only a relative 'few' who are spiritually led by the Spirit of God. Critical thinking would never have led them to God.

And its unfortunate you have never experienced a God moment that touched your entire being beyond your emotional and mental understanding and state, of any human comprehension of such an event.

Human critical thinking is very limited, and not a tool to understand and know God.

 

[Grailhunter]

Generally, the more religious one is, the less educated they are. Those who happen to be both educated and religious such as theologians, are largely disingenuous and intellectually dishonest-victims of cognitive dissonance and mental gymnastics. They can easily apply their critical thinking skills to all other forms of magical thinking and religious beliefs separate from their own, but fail to apply the same reasoning to their own beliefs. Now of course religious zealots will mention the commonly over-used and stale argument of the Catholic Church being behind most of the world’s scientific advancements and education, but that in itself is a form of post hoc fallacy. Deconstructing is by no means easy, but this lady has done it here after many years of being a Christian:

In America, Does More Education Equal Less Religion?

Overall, U.S. adults with college degrees are less religious than others on some measures. However, Christians with higher levels of education appear to be just as religious as those with less schooling.

www.pewresearch.org

Christians in U.S. Are Less Educated Than Religious Minorities, Report Says (Published 2016)

A Pew Research Center survey of 151 countries found wide gaps in education among major religions, including among Christians and minority faiths in the United States.

www.nytimes.com

I am going to try to respond to this without being rude, but oh My! You are wrong and insulting and obviously uncomprehending.

You obviously know little about Christianity or the history thereof. First off you are wrong about the Catholic Church “being behind most of the world’s scientific advancements and education.” You are just trying to pull in the Protestant hatred of the Catholic Church to make your point. The Catholics killed the thinkers during the Renaissance and burnt schools and books. And in the 17th century they still insisted that the world was flat and stationary and set on a foundation, and the universe….the moon and sun revolved around it. How can you be more wrong?

And as far as your claim that those----that are both educated and religious such as theologians, are largely disingenuous and intellectually dishonest-victims of cognitive dissonance and mental gymnastics. Is both rude and uninformed.

I am both a Theologian and a Historian. I have spent my life in one form or another of formal education in 5 countries. Because someone knows more about a topic is not a negative. Some try to suggest that only the stupid and uneducated can understand the truth about Christianity and the spiritual side. I walk with Christ everyday. And Theologians and Historians do not prescribe to the mainstream in anyway.

Watch for yourself, only the stupid and uneducated promote all of what you said to justify their ignorance and suggest that stupid means biblically knowledgeable and spiritual.

Then you have those that do not go to church or college and develop their beliefs sitting at home in a lazy boy, I call them “the church of ones.” And they try to convince people that the Holy Spirit has taught them the real truth….The problem is the “the church of ones” usually do not agree with each other…

So is the Holy Spirit playing a joke and going around to people in lazy boy churches and telling them different things. Sounds like a joke on the ignorant and uneducated and then they go out speaking garbage about Christ, the Bible, and Christianity. This has been going on for a long time, no wonder there are so many Protestant denominations, people preaching things from the podium of ignorance. The ignorant leading Christianity is a bad thing.

 

[David in NJ]

Generally, the more religious one is, the less educated they are. Those who happen to be both educated and religious such as theologians, are largely disingenuous and intellectually dishonest-victims of cognitive dissonance and mental gymnastics. They can easily apply their critical thinking skills to all other forms of magical thinking and religious beliefs separate from their own, but fail to apply the same reasoning to their own beliefs. Now of course religious zealots will mention the commonly over-used and stale argument of the Catholic Church being behind most of the world’s scientific advancements and education, but that in itself is a form of post hoc fallacy. Deconstructing is by no means easy, but this lady has done it here after many years of being a Christian:

In America, Does More Education Equal Less Religion?

Overall, U.S. adults with college degrees are less religious than others on some measures. However, Christians with higher levels of education appear to be just as religious as those with less schooling.

www.pewresearch.org

Christians in U.S. Are Less Educated Than Religious Minorities, Report Says (Published 2016)

A Pew Research Center survey of 151 countries found wide gaps in education among major religions, including among Christians and minority faiths in the United States.

www.nytimes.com

i was raised a Catholic
God saved me from it thru His Gospel of Grace & Mercy

The Greatest Scientist you will ever know is the LORD who created all things.

HE also is the ONE who encourages us to THINK and not be led astray by the worlds religious/political systems.

 

[Grailhunter]

i was raised a Catholic
God saved me from it thru His Gospel of Grace & Mercy

The Greatest Scientist you will ever know is the LORD who created all things.

HE also is the ONE who encourages us to THINK and not be led astray by the worlds religious/political systems.

And God saved you to Calvinism?

 

[Skovand]

I think that the reason why so many Christians end up absconding their faith as they learn more about science and history is because the specific niche of Christianity they were raised up in. But many deconstruct from a young earth creationism and an angry god and reconstructs into a healthier pro science faith.

 

[David in NJ]

And God saved you to Calvinism?

This is where God Placed me

For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy; giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light.
He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

 

[Grailhunter]

This is where God Placed me

For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy; giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light.
He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His love, in whom we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins.

That is all good but you need to abandon Calvinism. Not the worst, just a lie. We are not robots and God is not the Great Puppet Master. We choose Christ and make the choices in our life

 

[David in NJ]

That is all good but you need to abandon Calvinism. Not the worst, just a lie. We are not robots and God is not the Great Puppet Master. We choose Christ and make the choices in our life

i never was under Calvinism

 

[Grailhunter]

i never was under Calvinism

Really?

 

[KUWN]

Generally, the more religious one is, the less educated they are. Those who happen to be both educated and religious such as theologians, are largely disingenuous and intellectually dishonest-victims of cognitive dissonance and mental gymnastics. They can easily apply their critical thinking skills to all other forms of magical thinking and religious beliefs separate from their own, but fail to apply the same reasoning to their own beliefs. Now of course religious zealots will mention the commonly over-used and stale argument of the Catholic Church being behind most of the world’s scientific advancements and education, but that in itself is a form of post hoc fallacy. Deconstructing is by no means easy, but this lady has done it here after many years of being a Christian:

In America, Does More Education Equal Less Religion?

Overall, U.S. adults with college degrees are less religious than others on some measures. However, Christians with higher levels of education appear to be just as religious as those with less schooling.

www.pewresearch.org

Christians in U.S. Are Less Educated Than Religious Minorities, Report Says (Published 2016)

A Pew Research Center survey of 151 countries found wide gaps in education among major religions, including among Christians and minority faiths in the United States.

www.nytimes.com

Maybe we should all become ignoramuses. Maybe we should be like Muslims and rely only on faith.

Remember, Jesus told the skeptics of his day to not have faith in him!!!!!!! Do you know what verse that is in?

 

[MA2444]

Those wearing the Christian label are not all Christians in spirit, in heart. In fact most are not true Christians. You are wrestling with the wrong crowd.

There are only a relative 'few' who are spiritually led by the Spirit of God. Critical thinking would never have led them to God.

And its unfortunate you have never experienced a God moment that touched your entire being beyond your emotional and mental understanding and state, of any human comprehension of such an event.

Human critical thinking is very limited, and not a tool to understand and know God.

I think you are partly right and partly wrong. Critical thinking does not lead people to God, the Holy Spirit does.

But we were given critical thinking for a purpose.

Proverbs 14:15 – The simple believes everything, but the prudent gives thought to his steps.

2 Timothy 2:7 – Think over what I say, for the Lord will give you understanding in everything.

1 Thessalonians 5:21- But test everything; hold fast what is good.

Critical thinking enables us to establish that doctrines central to the Christian faith are based solidly on scripture, reason, and available evidences. We find that these doctrines stand up to a careful examination. Hard questions are welcome, since solid answers await them.

 

[APAK]

I think you are partly right and partly wrong. Critical thinking does not lead people to God, the Holy Spirit does.

But we were given critical thinking for a purpose.

Proverbs 14:15 – The simple believes everything, but the prudent gives thought to his steps.

2 Timothy 2:7 – Think over what I say, for the Lord will give you understanding in everything.

1 Thessalonians 5:21- But test everything; hold fast what is good.

Critical thinking enables us to establish that doctrines central to the Christian faith are based solidly on scripture, reason, and available evidences. We find that these doctrines stand up to a careful examination. Hard questions are welcome, since solid answers await them.

Well I will stick to what I said, that critical thinking would never lead anyone to God.... and his Son.

In your post, you have now addresses something new that I never discussed, doctrines......etc....Even in these affairs, the Spirit of God will lead one to the correct doctrines. Unfortunately, man's critical thinking has led them to many false doctrines, that leads many away from God.
just saying...

 

[MA2444]

Well I will stick to what I said, that critical thinking would never lead anyone to God.... and his Son.

In your post, you have now addresses something new that I never discussed, doctrines......etc....Even in these affairs, the Spirit of God will lead one to the correct doctrines. Unfortunately, man's critical thinking has led them to many false doctrines, that leads many away from God.
just saying...

But we are sentient beings so we have to think. Scripture tells us to meditate upon the scriptures and the Kingdom of God all the day long, so you can't get away from it. Because when we read the word it feeds our spirit and goes into our spirit...but it also gets dumped into the carnal mind. So the way I figure it, is if you read te word with your carnal mind, you get led into false doctrines. If you read the word from the spirit, you get led into the truth.

 

[APAK]

But we are sentient beings so we have to think. Scripture tells us to meditate upon the scriptures and the Kingdom of God all the day long, so you can't get away from it. Because when we read the word it feeds our spirit and goes into our spirit...but it also gets dumped into the carnal mind. So the way I figure it, is if you read te word with your carnal mind, you get led into false doctrines. If you read the word from the spirit, you get led into the truth.

Well that is closer to my thoughts...thoughts linked to the Spirit of God. Although the term 'critical' thinking need to be more precisely defined. It is not just being prudent, or wise, or even being of a sound mind. These are human qualities that we are to use of course. It is when the term 'critical' becomes or reaches the heights or the realms of egotism and self-centeredness where is can easily become poison to the heart and soul.

 

[MA2444]

Well that is closer to my thoughts...thoughts linked to the Spirit of God. Although the term 'critical' thinking need to be more precisely defined. It is not just being prudent, or wise, or even being of a sound mind. These are human qualities that we are to use of course. It is when the term 'critical' becomes or reaches the heights or the realms of egotism and self-centeredness where is can easily become poison to the heart and soul.

They dont teach critical thinking to the kids anymore. It's not like a critical spirit! More like an ability to reason and question and test previously held beliefs and evaluate and reflect and examine, reason to the new belief. To recognize the ambiguity of previously held beliefs to the new (theory) put forth. Then taking into account our personal experience which usually tips it one way or the other we form new judgments or hold on to old ones as the case may be.

What's so hard about that? lol. Well simple, the day the was supposed to teach critical thinking they cancelled that and watched a movie about choosing which gender you could be! So our kids are a bunch of dummies! That's why you can speak facts to them and they dont get it! Well, no it depends on how you feel what gender you are, LOL! That's like as far away from the truth as one can get!

It explains why we were nut jobs to our parents and why are our kids are nut jobs to us! Each generation gets dumber and less able to think for themselves.

 

[quietthinker]

They dont teach critical thinking to the kids anymore. It's not like a critical spirit! More like an ability to reason and question and test previously held beliefs and evaluate and reflect and examine, reason to the new belief. To recognize the ambiguity of previously held beliefs to the new (theory) put forth. Then taking into account our personal experience which usually tips it one way or the other we form new judgments or hold on to old ones as the case may be.

What's so hard about that? lol. Well simple, the day the was supposed to teach critical thinking they cancelled that and watched a movie about choosing which gender you could be! So our kids are a bunch of dummies! That's why you can speak facts to them and they dont get it! Well, no it depends on how you feel what gender you are, LOL! That's like as far away from the truth as one can get!

It explains why we were nut jobs to our parents and why are our kids are nut jobs to us! Each generation gets dumber and less able to think for themselves.

Could it be that lateral thinking rather than critical thinking allows greater options.

 

[MA2444]

Could it be that lateral thinking rather than critical thinking allows greater options.

Maybe in finding a solution thru the creativity of the lateral thinking? But what makes it be rather than? Wouldnt it be in addition to because this is where we would apply our personal experience(s) to both of the proposed views and doing that is creative in that it usually rings a bell for the one doing it.

As in, yeah that was a bunch of crap! Or...why didnt I think that before because I can see that in my life so it is true!. The words of truth are spiritual. But we live in a natural realm so the spiritual words spoken must manifest in ways to be examined in the natural realm.

I hope that's right, it's still only the first cup of coffee, lol. I think that's right.

 

[quietthinker]

Maybe in finding a solution thru the creativity of the lateral thinking? But what makes it be rather than? Wouldnt it be in addition to because this is where we would apply our personal experience(s) to both of the proposed views and doing that is creative in that it usually rings a bell for the one doing it.

As in, yeah that was a bunch of crap! Or...why didnt I think that before because I can see that in my life so it is true!. The words of truth are spiritual. But we live in a natural realm so the spiritual words spoken must manifest in ways to be examined in the natural realm.

I hope that's right, it's still only the first cup of coffee, lol. I think that's right.

have another coffee ...and don't forget the water!

 

[MA2444]

have another coffee ...and don't forget the water!

I have more now. :)
But does what I said make sense to you at all?