Could Jesus have sinned?
- Thread starter KUWN
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Taken
Well-Known Member
Apparently we do not KNOW the SAME Jesus…and Scripture warns men will be divided on which Jesus they will know and follow after.
According to Scripture you have been duped following the corrupt teaching of humans, and not the Lord.
The Jesus I KNOW came forth out from God.
The humans God created came forth out from the Earth.
Gen 2:
[7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground,
1 Cor 15:
[47] The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
[48] As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
John 16:
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
[28] I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.
Glory to God,
Taken
On that particular point we are in full and complete agreement.
The only interest I have in your viewpoint is that @Johann (a trinitarian member of the forum) has tried to persuade me that Jesus is a human person in his theology. Your position - Jesus isn’t a human person - is historically the position of his theology but not his personal position. I find that fascinating. Perhaps he will be persuaded by you.
More precisely, ”According to my understanding of Scripture …”
If I were still teaching I would use this as an example in the classroom for my theology students.
Jesus of Nazareth was supernaturally begotten (by his God and Father) in the womb of a virgin (Mary) c. 4 B.C. (Matthew 1 and Luke 1).
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Taken
Well-Known Member
Correct.
Spirits do not BECOME humans.
Everything ABOUT God IS Spirit…IS HOLY, His Being, His Word, His Power, Can come forth OUT from God, while always remaining IN God.)
Jesus is the Name of Gods Word.
Jesus is the Same yesterday, today, forever.
Every Time Gods WORD comes forth OUT from God, God IS giving His Holy Knowledge to manKind… The Understanding IS…God sends forth His Word and What His Word Says…It is So.
Example…
Gen 1:
[3] And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Your position…You taught others.
Your position…”other faith”
Your position…Jesus IS a Human.
My position…men have taught other men false teachings.
My position….God IS Spirit, that which comes forth out from God IS Spirit, and remains In God.
Jesus position…
John 16:
[27] For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
John 14:
[10] Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
God purposed IN Himself…to accomplish what HUMAN MEN could not.
Eph 1:
[9] Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
God pre-told ISAIAH…
Isa 55:
[11] So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.
WHAT THING?
Heb 10:
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Sent that THING where?
Luke 1:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
Luke 1:
[31] And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.
Luke 1:
[35] And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
** Fast forward 30 + Years
Acts 13:
[33] God hath fulfilled the same unto us their children, in that he hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.
Gods Father / Son relationship was Gods DECLARATION.
Heb 1:
[5] For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
I’m sure this is of your “other faith” and teachings you learned of men that you inturn taught to other men.
The Word of God, came forth out of Gods MOUTH and was by the Power of God Sent to a specific (OF THE HOUSE OF KING DAVID) females womb, to Expressly FULFILL…Gods Law, Mans Law…that ONLY a direct descendent OF KING DAVID…could LEGALLY be seated ON King David’s “everlasting” Throne (IN Jerusalem)…
Preparedness…FOR WHEN Jesus Returns!!
Further…ONLY…a descendent of ABRAHAM, ISSAC, JACOB….can LAWFULLY, LEGALLY, inherit, The Promised Land, AND WHY “The Word of God”….
Heb 2:
[16] For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
God Doesn’t procreate Offspring.
God DECLARES When, Who, How, Why….
He establishes HIS Offspring, HIS People…BY His DECLARATION…and HIMSELF as AN EXAMPLE….FOR….hard nosed, stiffed necked, stubborn ManKIND…that can NOT Believe BY Hearing….RATHER such men MUST “SEE” before they BELIEVE!
A tongue lashing reminder … “ye of OTHER FAITH”…
YOU…
Matthias … Kentucky…other faith
Acts 7:
[51] Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.
Good news…you say you no longer teach.
Glory to God,
Taken
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The question of whether Jesus became a "human person" touches upon key aspects of Christology, particularly in the context of the Incarnation. In traditional Christian doctrine, particularly articulated in the Chalcedonian Definition (451 AD), Jesus is understood to be one Person with two natures: fully divine and fully human. However, to avoid misunderstandings, it is important to clarify what is meant by "person" and "nature" in this context.
Jesus did not become a separate human person in the sense of being two distinct persons (one divine and one human). Instead, He is one divine Person—the Second Person of the Trinity—who took on human nature. This is referred to as the hypostatic union, meaning that the divine Person (the Son) united to Himself a complete human nature (both body and soul) without becoming a second person. This view asserts that while Jesus has two distinct natures (divine and human), they are united in one Person.
Jesus became truly human in the sense that He took on a human nature, with all its limitations, including the ability to suffer, be tempted, and die. His human nature included a human will, mind, emotions, and body, making Him fully human in every respect, except for sin (Hebrews 4:15). However, the Person who took on this human nature is the eternal Son of God, not a newly created "human person."
This understanding is reflected in Scripture, which reveals the uniqueness of Christ as fully God and fully man:
John 1:14 (Lexham): "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us." Here, "the Word" (Logos) refers to the pre-existent divine Person of the Son, who "became flesh," indicating He assumed human nature.
Philippians 2:6-7 (Lexham): "Who, though he existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be grasped, but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of men." Jesus, the pre-existing Son, took on the likeness of humanity without ceasing to be God.
Therefore, while Jesus is fully human, He did not "become a human person" in a distinct or separate sense from His divine Personhood. Instead, He remains the one and only divine Person who has taken on human nature for the purpose of redemption.
This is why the language of one Person with two natures is used in Christian orthodoxy, carefully distinguishing between the nature of Jesus (fully human and fully divine) and the Person (the eternal Son of God) who took on flesh.
John 1:1, 14 (Lexham)
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
"And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, the glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth."
Explanation: This passage affirms both Christ’s divinity and humanity. The Word (Logos) existed eternally with God and was God (verse 1), but became flesh (verse 14), indicating that the eternal divine Son took on a fully human nature. The two natures (divine and human) are united in one Person, the Word.
2. Philippians 2:5-8 (Lexham)
"Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he existed in the form of God, did not consider equality with God as something to be grasped, but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."
Explanation: This passage teaches that Christ, who was in the form of God (indicating His divine nature), took on the form of a servant and became in the likeness of men (indicating His human nature). Though fully God, Jesus emptied Himself (not by giving up divinity, but by taking on human nature and humbling Himself to death). This passage is a strong statement of Christ's two natures in one Person.
3. Colossians 2:9 (Lexham)
"For in him all the fullness of deity dwells bodily."
Explanation: This verse teaches that in Christ, the fullness of deity (His divine nature) is present in bodily form (His human nature). The union of the divine and human natures is clear—God's fullness resides in Jesus, who has a physical, human body.
4. Hebrews 1:3 (Lexham)
"He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power."
Explanation: This passage shows Jesus’ divine nature—He is the exact imprint of God’s nature, meaning He shares fully in the essence of God. His divine power is evident as He upholds the universe. The following verses also affirm His humanity in His role as the purifier of sins through His sacrificial death.
5. Hebrews 2:14 (Lexham)
"Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil."
Explanation: This verse emphasizes the human nature of Christ—He partook in flesh and blood (humanity) just like all people. Yet, through His death, He defeated the devil, indicating His divine power and authority. This combination of human and divine characteristics affirms the hypostatic union.
6. 1 Timothy 2:5 (Lexham)
"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
Explanation: This verse refers to Jesus’ humanity—He is described as the man Christ Jesus, yet as the mediator between God and humanity, which indicates His unique role as both divine and human. His mediation requires that He be fully God (to represent God) and fully man (to represent humanity).
7. Romans 1:3-4 (Lexham)
"Concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord."
Explanation: These verses show the two natures of Christ—His human nature as He was descended from David according to the flesh and His divine nature as the Son of God declared in power through His resurrection. This clearly displays the concept of the hypostatic union.
8. Galatians 4:4 (Lexham)
"But when the fullness of time had come, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law."
Explanation: This passage highlights that God sent His divine Son, who was born of a woman, thus taking on human nature. Jesus’ birth under the law shows His full participation in the human experience, yet as the divine Son, He fulfills God’s purpose.
Summary:
Divine nature: Jesus is fully God, as shown in passages like John 1:1, Colossians 2:9, and Hebrews 1:3.
Human nature: Jesus is fully human, as described in John 1:14, Philippians 2:7, and Hebrews 2:14.
These two natures are united in the one Person of Jesus Christ, without separation or confusion, as shown in verses like Philippians 2:5-8 and Colossians 2:9.
Each passage emphasizes either His humanity or His divinity, but together, they reveal the mystery of the hypostatic union: one divine Person, Jesus Christ, fully God and fully human, for the purpose of redeeming mankind.
********************************************************************************************************************
the Early Church Fathers (ECF) played a significant role in the development of the doctrine of the hypostatic union, though the term itself was formally defined later at the Council of Chalcedon in 451 AD. However, the ideas and principles behind the hypostatic union-that Jesus Christ is one Person with two distinct natures, divine and human—were taught and debated by the Church Fathers well before this formal definition.
Let’s trace how the ECF contributed to this doctrine:
1. Ignatius of Antioch (c. 35–110 AD)
Ignatius, one of the earliest Church Fathers, emphasized the full humanity and full divinity of Christ. In his letter to the Ephesians (7:2), he speaks of Jesus Christ as "truly born of a virgin... truly nailed in the flesh for our sakes." He affirms both Christ's true divinity and humanity, laying early groundwork for the concept of the hypostatic union, although he does not use this precise terminology.
2. Irenaeus of Lyons (c. 130–202 AD)
Irenaeus wrote extensively against Gnosticism, which denied the full humanity of Christ. In his work "Against Heresies" (Book 3, Chapter 19), he emphasizes that Christ was fully divine and fully human, saying that the Word "united man to God." He describes the Word (Logos) assuming a human nature in the Incarnation while remaining divine, a concept that would later be central to the hypostatic union.
3. Tertullian (c. 155–240 AD)
Tertullian is one of the first to use technical language that would later be foundational in Christology. In his work "On the Flesh of Christ," Tertullian explicitly defends the belief that Christ had both a true human body and a divine nature, making him an important precursor to the idea of the hypostatic union. He argued that Christ was "one person, two substances" (substantiae), though his understanding of "substance" (similar to "nature") differs slightly from later terminology.
You might disagree @Taken.
J.
So Was Jesus a Real Person? Surely!
The proof?
The eyewitnesses to Jesus agree that He was a real person and recorded their lives with Him and His teachings.
The early Christians who learned directly from those eyewitnesses also agree that Jesus was a real person and wrote of His teachings. They were taught by those who heard Jesus directly.
Roman historians writing specifically about the time period at issue reference Jesus, His followers and His death at the hand of Pontius Pilate.
Josephus grew up in Israel in the years following Jesus and had a front-row seat for its destruction. He mentions Jesus, James and John the Baptist as real people.
The number of varied and independent historical references to one man who lived 2000 years ago is just staggering. It would be like if you watched a Ken Burns documentary and read books by Tom Brokaw and Doris Kearns Goodwin and each independently mentioned the same really important figure. Yet, this figure had no official governmental role, was not a general or politician, had no money and lived in an obscure part of the world before dying the death of a criminal. Add in the fact the many sources for Jesus are just the ones that survived the past 2000 years and we get a glimpse of the overwhelming evidence and impact Jesus had on the world. It is like God testifying through the documents themselves.
This is only a small sample of the existing evidence for the man Jesus. If we are struggling with finding faith or with our faith, I pray that this would be a starting point for a full investigation of the issue. As a person whose livelihood depends upon scrutinizing facts and weighing evidence, once I began a full investigation of the historical Jesus my faith only grew stronger. There is no other single man whose fingerprint is so clearly present throughout the historical record.
Behold
Well-Known Member
Jesus is the "2nd Adam", and just like the First one, Christ was fully human, and this allowed Him the capacity to sin.
Had Jesus not been able to sin, then He could not have fulfilled the Law, and His Sacrifice would not have been authorized and accepted by God.
Notice....
"Jesus was tempted in all points, in all ways, just like US... YET...without SIN"..
Had Jesus not been able to sin, then He could not have fulfilled the Law, and His Sacrifice would not have been authorized and accepted by God.
Notice....
"Jesus was tempted in all points, in all ways, just like US... YET...without SIN"..
Taken
Well-Known Member
I find the SOLE understanding in simplicity according to the Spirit of God, rather than the Carnal Mind of men.
God IS a Spirit…God HAS 7 Spirits, Gods 7 Spirits are the SAME ONE God.
WHEN God SENDS forth ANY HIS Spirits out from God, those SAME Spirits REMAIN IN God.
The TOTALITY “OF” Gods Spirit…”IS” the totality OF Gods Power AND Gods Glory…
That which God…gives (such totality) TO:
No one.
God IS…omnipresent, omniscience, omnipotent…AND by, through, of Gods WORD…God Himself REVEALS …. HOW …. the UNSEEN, UNHEARD, INVISIBLE Almighty Lord God…REVEALS Himself to ManKind.
The “HOW” MYSTERY…Revealed…
By, though, of Gods Seven Spirits….that God Himself….
IDENTIFIES the particular Spirits Purpose, Works, Name, Titles.
Jesus, Christ, Lord, Lamb of God, ARE EACH SPIRITS “OF” God… with Names, Titles, that came FORTH out from God TO EARTH (while remaining IN God) with specific Names, Titles, Purposes and Works to Accomplish ON EARTH…and then RETURNING TO Heaven….
AND…”THEN” OTHER Spirits of God…thereafter SENT from God…TO: “particular” /
“Specific” Human men….WHO “willingly, freely” Accepted Gods Offering OF HIS SPIRIT “OF TRUTH”, to Dwell “IN” such men…(According TO: Gods Offering, Gods Order and Gods Way.)…
(IOW…Gods terms FOR a human man to Receive Gods Offering…HOW and WHEN).
The Names and Titles “specific” USED in Scripture REVEALS “WHO” specifically DOES WHAT…
Name…Jesus…Son of Man….for 30+years.
Title…Lamb of God…30+ years later, Begotten of God…now Son of God.
Name … Jesus … Title Lord…Title Teacher of Worldly Truth
Name…Jesus…Title Rabbi…Title High Priest…Title Son of God, Title Teacher of Spiritual Truth
Name…Jesus…Title Christ Wisdom of God, Title Christ Power of God, Title Christ Seed of God…
Get the Point? When Scripture reveals…
The name, the title, the description of what is occurring….it is the NAME the TITLE revealed (OF Gods Spirit) that is ACCOMPLISHING Gods INTENDED Service unto…. Himself. )
IF and WHEN…a human man DESIRES to “SERVE” God…God Himself step by step, bit by bit….EXAMPLED …. For a human mans…EARS…and …EYES….to Hear and Witness…Gods OWN SPIRIT…teaching, showing a human man…HOW TO Serve God…According to His WILL, His Favor.
“AND” God by His Word and VISIBLE EXAMPLE…reveals the “RESULT” thereof…
FOR a human man WHO Freely DOES Choose Gods Order and Way!
God NEVER “BECAME” a Human man.
AND Human men NEVER shall “Become” God!
Jesus APPEARED in the LIKENESS “AS” a human man….
Teaching Jesus “IS” a human man is FALSE.
“AS” does NOT MEAN “IS”.
HOW DID the human men SEE JESUS?
Phil 2:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Not much different than today when humans SEE “a human man”….outer appearance of a human man in a dress, high heels, makeup, hair styled, nails polished, blah, blah…they see the LIKENESS “AS” a woman…YET it is a man.
Same thing…when men SAW Jesus…they SAW the outer appearance “AS” a man…they called Him a man….He called Himself a man…WAIT…. did He call Himself A HUMAN MAN? Uh no…that teaching is OF Human men!
Nothing new…SPIRITS (God and Angels) have the POWER to TAKE UPON THEMSELVES the Appearance of a Human man. But that DOES NOT MAKE them Human men.
Heb 13
[2] Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
Same with human men, who take upon them the appearance of a Female….On the inside, they do not have a womb, menstruate, have ovaries, have milk glands, have wider pelvic girdles….BECAUSE they are NOT female humans.
No. Jesus was not, is not a human man.
Glory to God,
Taken
Taken
Well-Known Member
EH…False.
Humans DO NOT COME FORTH OUT OF GOD!
Humans COME FORTH OUT OF THE DUST OF THE EARTH and REPRODUCE their same KIND of EARTHLY offsprings….then maintain their earthly life, by EATING From the Earth…sustaining their earthly body, with the Earths nutrients.
Taken
Well-Known Member
A Person is an alive body with a living soul in it’s body…
Jesus’ Personhood is not in question.
God Prepared Jesus a BODY…FOR…human men to see, FOR that body to be Given unto death, FOR human men TO SEE as an Example of what human men CAN HAVE for themselves, by their own FREEWILL choosing.
All irrelevant…no one challenged Jesus’ PERSONHOOD…
The challenge was “IS” a Human
OR
“AS” a Human.
Scripture teaches “AS”
“Some” Men teach “IS”.
I side with Scripture.
Glory to God,
Taken
and your understanding re Messiah is error--
Your claims made in this argument challenge the orthodox understanding of the incarnation and the hypostatic union of Christ, which affirms that Jesus is both fully God and fully man.
Point 1: "God is a Spirit, God has 7 Spirits...Jesus, Christ, Lord, Lamb of God are Spirits of God, not a human person."
Rebuttal: This statement misrepresents the nature of Jesus by reducing Him to a "Spirit of God" rather than acknowledging His humanity. Scripture, however, makes it clear that Jesus is both God and man.
John 1:14 (Lexham): "And the Word became flesh and took up residence among us. We saw his glory, the glory of the one and only from the Father, full of grace and truth."
The Word (Jesus, the pre-incarnate Son) became flesh, meaning He took on a human body. The word for 'flesh' (σάρξ) signifies real human nature, not merely a spirit or appearance. The seven Spirits mentioned in Revelation (Revelation 1:4, 3:1) do not refer to different beings or aspects of God but likely represent the fullness of the Holy Spirit.
Point 2: "God never became a human man. Jesus appeared in the likeness of a man but was not a human man."
Rebuttal: Your assertion directly contradicts the incarnation as taught in Scripture. Jesus did not merely "appear" as a man; He became a man.
Philippians 2:6-8 (Lexham): "Who, existing in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be grasped, but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance like a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, that is, death on a cross."
This passage clearly states that Jesus became human by taking on the form of a servant. The word 'likeness' (ὁμοίωμα) does not suggest that He was not truly human but refers to His participation in the real human experience. Jesus humbled Himself even to the point of death-something only a real human could experience.
Point 3: "Teaching that Jesus is a human man is false. AS does not mean IS."
Rebuttal: The argument hinges on the word "as" in Philippians 2:7-8, but this is a misunderstanding of Paul’s meaning. While the passage says Jesus came "in the likeness of men," it does not imply that He only looked like a man without actually being human.
Hebrews 2:14 (Lexham): "Therefore, since the children share in blood and flesh, he also in like manner partook of the same things, in order that through death he could destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil."
Hebrews 2:17 (Lexham): "Therefore he was obligated to be made like his brothers in all respects, so that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in the things relating to God, in order to make atonement for the sins of the people."
These verses affirm that Jesus partook of flesh and blood, meaning He fully shared in the human condition. The comparison to humans is not illusory or symbolic. His humanity is necessary for His role as the high priest and for the atonement of sin.
Point 4: "Jesus was not, is not a human man."
Rebuttal: This statement contradicts the core of Christian doctrine concerning Jesus’ incarnation and redemptive work. The entire gospel message depends on the truth that Jesus, being fully God, also became fully human to redeem humanity.
1 Timothy 2:5 (Lexham): "For there is one God and one mediator between God and humanity, Christ Jesus, himself human."
Romans 1:3-4 (Lexham): "concerning his Son, who was born a descendant of David according to the flesh, who was declared to be the Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by the resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord."
Jesus is described as being born of the lineage of David, which refers to His human nature, and as the Son of God, which refers to His divine nature. His full humanity is essential to His role as mediator between God and man.
Point 5: "Spirits (God and Angels) have the power to take the appearance of a human man, but that doesn’t make them human."
Rebuttal: While it is true that angels can take on a human form (as seen in Hebrews 13:2), this analogy does not apply to Jesus. Unlike angels, Jesus did not temporarily assume human form but became human in every way while still remaining God.
Colossians 2:9 (Lexham): "Because in him all the fullness of deity dwells bodily."
Jesus is not simply an angel or spirit taking on human appearance—He is the fullness of deity dwelling bodily. His humanity is not superficial or temporary but a true and permanent aspect of His identity as the incarnate Son of God.
Your argument misunderstands the biblical teaching of the incarnation, treating Jesus' humanity as merely an appearance rather than a reality. Scripture is abundantly clear that Jesus, while remaining fully God, became fully human, sharing in our nature so that He could redeem humanity. To deny the real humanity of Jesus is to undermine the very essence of the gospel message.
The Bible teaches that Jesus is both God and man, and this is the foundation of Christian theology concerning salvation.
Weird ideas from you @Taken and like you I also side with Scripture.
J.
The distinction between "as" and "is" in relation to Jesus' humanity is crucial for understanding what Scripture actually teaches. Let’s examine the Greek texts in question and clarify whether Scripture speaks of Jesus "as" a human or "being" human. Shall we @Taken?
Key Scriptures to Analyze the Greek:
Philippians 2:7-8
Hebrews 2:14
Romans 8:3
Philippians 2:7-8 (Lexham Bible):
"but emptied himself by taking the form of a slave, by becoming in the likeness of people. And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, that is, death on a cross."
Greek Text:
"ἐν ὁμοιώματι ἀνθρώπων" (en homoiōmati anthrōpōn) – “in the likeness of men” (Phil. 2:7)
"σχήματι εὑρεθεὶς ὡς ἄνθρωπος" (schēmati heuretheis hōs anthrōpos) – “found in appearance as a man” (Phil. 2:8)
Analysis:
"ἐν ὁμοιώματι" means "in the likeness", referring to Jesus taking on the form of human beings. This does not mean that Jesus was merely similar to a human being but took on the full human experience.
The word “σχήματι” (schēmati), translated as “appearance”, refers to His outward condition. The word "ὡς" (hōs), translated as "as", is indeed there. But, in context, it does not imply that Jesus was only seemingly human. Instead, it expresses how He was perceived as a man because He genuinely took on human form.
Paul emphasizes Jesus' real humanity—He became human (though retaining His divine nature) and was thus "found in appearance" as a man because He was a man. The focus is on His humility and obedience, not an illusion of humanity.
Hebrews 2:14 (Lexham Bible):
"Therefore, since the children share in flesh and blood, he also in like manner partook of the same things, in order that through death he could destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil."
Greek Text:
"ἐπεὶ οὖν τὰ παιδία κεκοινώνηκεν αἵματος καὶ σαρκός" (epei oun ta paidia kekoinōnēken haimatos kai sarkos) – "since the children share in blood and flesh"
"καὶ αὐτὸς παραπλησίως μετέσχε τῶν αὐτῶν" (kai autos paraplēsios meteschen tōn autōn) – "He Himself likewise partook of the same"
Analysis:
The phrase "μετέσχε τῶν αὐτῶν" (meteschen tōn autōn) means that Jesus fully partook of the same human nature—flesh and blood. This explicitly states that He did not merely appear as human but actually shared in the reality of humanity.
The Greek word "παραπλησίως" (paraplēsiōs) means "in a similar manner", but it does not mean that His humanity was only similar without being real. Instead, it emphasizes that He experienced the full human condition (including death) to accomplish redemption.
Romans 8:3 (Lexham Bible):
"For what was impossible for the law, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and concerning sin, he condemned sin in the flesh."
Greek Text:
"ἐν ὁμοιώματι σαρκὸς ἁμαρτίας" (en homoiōmati sarkos hamartias) – "in the likeness of sinful flesh"
Analysis:
The term "likeness" (ὁμοιώματι, homoiōmati) is used here, but this doesn’t mean that Jesus only had apparent or seeming flesh. The context indicates that while Jesus took on human flesh, He did not take on sinful flesh. Paul is affirming that Jesus fully shared in human nature but was without sin.
Like you I side with Scripture.
J.
Hi WH
I agree with what you've stated, but this is such a problematic topic ---- just saw it.
Jesus could not have sinned or the entire salvation plan would have failed.
But if Jesus could be tempted in all ways as we could
Hebrews 4:14
WHAT caused Him to be tempted?
His soul?
WHAT in his soul?
Of course, I'm speaking about the sin nature.
Jesus could NOT have had the sin nature
So where would the temptation come from?
Taken
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
I am familiar with understanding the difference between…IS and AS….and A man and A human man.
I am not the one saying…Jesus IS a human man….
Scripture you quoted clearly says AS a man.
Spirits have the ABILITY, POWER to LOOK “AS” a Human man.
Human men are Mortal Body’s that MUST DIE.
Spiritual Spirits NEVER DIE.
Spiritual Understanding regarding Spiritual things….DOES NOT come from books or human men to human men….
Spiritual Understanding of Spiritual things COMES Exclusively FROM the Lord God Spirit to a mans Spirit.
Glory to God,
Taken
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Hi Taken.
Didn’t Jesus come out of the womb of Mary his Mother?
Did he not grow in his mother’s womb......only he was conceived of Gods Spirit?
Did Jesus not walk the earth like a human man, we know he was God in the flesh, but, he wasn’t walking around as a Spirit was he?
If he was doing that, we would never have seen him for a start as God is Spirit.
Jesus had his own Will did he not?
Just trying to understand where you are coming from that is all.
No animosity from me.
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Ritajanice
Born-Again
I believe Jesus was tempted to act on his own will.
I know I have been tempted to act of my own will....in a certain situation, never in a million years would I go against the will of my Father in that area.....why, because I fear God and the consequences of that disobedience...that’s my belief anyway.
Gods will not my will.....I would rather die than knowingly go against the will of God...
I know I have been tempted to act of my own will....in a certain situation, never in a million years would I go against the will of my Father in that area.....why, because I fear God and the consequences of that disobedience...that’s my belief anyway.
Gods will not my will.....I would rather die than knowingly go against the will of God...
Taken
Well-Known Member
Yes, AFTER He was SENT forth out from God in Heaven TO Earth, TO a virgins’ Womb, making Him the LEGAL descendant of Abraham, Issac, Jacob, King David…thus Legal HEIR to King David’s Everlasting Throne, and Abraham’s HEIR to the Promised Land…(which will be Necessary for Jesus to Reign for 1,000, years on His Throne and in His Kingdom)…
By LLEGAL accounts Mary was His Lawful mother, Joseph His Lawful Father….and FULLED the Roman Laws for TAXATION, and FOR Roman Census accounting….AS Joseph and Mary DID. .
Spiritually Jesus IS SPIRIT incarnate, (in the LIKENESS “AS” a JEWISH Human Man…) Spiritually WITHOUT beginning, WITHOUT ending, WITHOUT mother, WITHOUT father.
That “holy thing”…Gods Word and was IN a BODY God Prepared…FOR WHEN He WOULD come into this World… Yes His body “prospered” grew….As God said it would.
Conceived OF Gods SEED…? Yes…Christ IS Gods SEED…Gods SEED does not “fertilize” a Humans sperm nor a Humans egg.
Gods SEED, IN a virgin womb…was God USING Mary’s womb….to which SHE agreed…the prospering, growing, feeding, blood supply, etc. (which a placenta does for a human baby in a womb of a human females fertilized egg) had NOTHING to do with MARY…
Sure Jesus looked like a man, in the Body God Prepared, and He walked about, ate, slept, was victimized, cried, talked, was justly accused, was unjustly accused…AND. Human men could SEE and Hear Him…YET…He was and is A SPIRIT.
A thought of Jesus…as given the author of Philipians
Phil 2:
[6] Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
[7] But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
[8] And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Do you KNOW ANY Human man…who would so boldly claim they are EQUAL TO GOD ?
Jesus thought that of Himself.
Are human men Created in the Likeness of human men….or Created A human man?
Correct, as I have said the same…
SAME as Angels who are Spirits can APPEAR IN THE LIKENESS “AS” a human man…and human men WILL NOT KNOW they are talking to a SPIRIT…an ANGEL…
Heb 13:
[2] Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
Are those ^^ angels HUMAN MEN because they LOOK LIKE a Human man? No.
Jesus is God…and ALWAYS diverted His WILL TO Gods WILL… a teaching…for manKINDS sake.
REMEMBER….WHY Jesus was SENT…
He was the VISIBLE EXAMPLE…human men could not BELIEVE (by Gods word Alone)…MEN believe what they can SEE.
A difference between …. Carnal Understanding and Spiritual Understanding.
Discussing Spiritual things with Carnal Understanding ends up in disagreements.
It’s like trying to teach a 3 yr old….something they can not see, hear, touch, smell, taste….Created and Made them….It makes no sense to a carnal mind.
God bless you.
Glory to God,
Taken
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