Could Jesus have sinned?

[Johann]

It’s standard treatment of the subject, but it seldom filters down to people sitting in the pews. That’s why they’re usually surprised, even shocked, when they hear it. I can’t begin to tell you how many times I’ve been called a liar when I speak about it. That’s why I always use trinitarian sources to present it, when I do. (That’s also why the paper you linked from the unitarian in post #113 used trinitarian sources.)

Still chewing the cud on this on brother, as I love theological books and debates.
Unfortunately can't ask you questions, and you know why.
Shalom.
J.

 

[David in NJ]

Ephesians 5:25-26 (NKJV):

"Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word."

In the NT
the Gospels
Matt. 3:16-17; 28:19 (and parallels)
John 14:16,26; 15:26; 16:7-10
Acts ‒ Acts 2:32-33, 38-39
Paul
Rom. 1:4-5; 5:1,5; 8:1-4,8-10
1 Cor. 2:8-10; 12:4-6
2 Cor. 1:21-22; 13:14
Gal. 4:4-6
Eph. 1:3-14,17; 2:18; 3:14-17; 4:4-6
1 Thess. 1:2-5
2 Thess. 2:13
Titus 3:4-6
Peter ‒ 1 Pet. 1:2
John ‒ 1 John 3:23-24; 4:13-14; 5:6-8
Jude ‒ vv. 20-21

J

Last Clue - In the Book from Beyond

 

[Matthias]

Still chewing the cud on this on brother, as I love theological books and debates.

I was doing some work in 1 Peter this afternoon which involved, in part, consulting the International Critical Commentary (ICC). You’d understand why if you read what I was reading in it, but that’s beside the point. I was reminded of your comment while reading it. It’s available at no cost online. A good resource you (and / or others) might be interested in. Here is a link to it:

The International Critical Commentary Complete : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The complete Public Domain commentaries of the International Critical Commentary (ICC)

archive.org

 

[Johann]

I was doing some work in 1 Peter this afternoon which involved, in part, consulting the International Critical Commentary (ICC). You’d understand why if you read what I was reading in it, but that’s beside the point. I was reminded of your comment while reading it. It’s available at no cost online. A good resource you (and / or others) might be interested in. Here is a link to it:

The International Critical Commentary Complete : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

The complete Public Domain commentaries of the International Critical Commentary (ICC)

archive.org

Much appreciated brother @Matthias.
Shalom to you and family.
J.

 

[ElieG12]

1) According to the Bible, Jesus experienced temptation just like every other person (Heb. 2:17,18; 4:15). Satan knew that Jesus Christ, as a human being, could succumb to temptation just as Adam and Eve succumbed when they were perfect; for that reason he tempted him. The Bible says that Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted (Mat. 4:1).

2) Jesus was under the law of Moses from the time he was born until he died (Gal. 4:4). The Bible mentions that Jesus learned obedience (Heb. 4:8,9), which suggests he had the option to make choices and opted to embrace what is good.

3) The Bible portrays Jesus' obedience as a personal victory, rather than a forced or automatic response, highlighting his ability to choose his actions (Heb. 2:10; 5:9).

4) The term "temptation" (akin to "test") signifies an internal urge or need (James 1:13-15). While some desires and needs are inappropriate, others are perfectly normal but can become tests (or temptation) if there is a chance they might be fulfilled incorrectly (Luke 4:1-3).

These points demonstrate that Jesus refrained from sinning by choice, not because He lacked the ability to do so.

 

[PGS11]

The answer is no or his sacrifice would not of been acceptable he would of been just like everyone else and he was not.He came and took on flesh and a soul he didn't just pop into existence as Jesus as a new soul like man.He is the word of God and he existed as the Word from the beginning have you not read the gospel of John - doesn't sound like you have maybe its something you should do and you might come to believe.

 

[ElieG12]

The answer is no or his sacrifice would not of been acceptable he would of been just like everyone else and he was not.

Like these who the Scriptures say?

Heb. 2:14 Therefore, since the “young children” are sharers of blood and flesh, he also similarly shared in the same things, so that through his death he might bring to nothing the one having the means to cause death, that is, the Devil, 15 and that he might set free all those who were held in slavery all their lives by their fear of death. 16 For it is not really angels he is assisting, but he is assisting Abraham’s offspring. 17 Consequently, he had to become like his “brothers” in all respects, so that he could become a merciful and faithful high priest in things relating to God, in order to offer a propitiatory sacrifice for the sins of the people. 18 Since he himself has suffered when being put to the test, he is able to come to the aid of those who are being put to the test.

He came and took on flesh and a soul he didn't just pop into existence as Jesus as a new soul like man.
He is the word of God and he existed as the Word from the beginning

So what?

Heb. 5:7 During his life on earth, Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear. 8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. 9 And after he had been made perfect, he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him, 10 because he has been designated by God a high priest in the manner of Melchizedek.

have you not read the gospel of John - doesn't sound like you have maybe its something you should do and you might come to believe.

Have you not read all the Scriptures I just quoted?
It doesn't sound like you have. Maybe it's something you should do and you might come to believe.

 

[PGS11]

You quit free to believe Jesus is a sinner I'm fine with that but its not what I believe and almost every other Christian and its what is taught.But go ahead preach away that Jesus was a sinner I'm sure your not the first no one is going to buy in who understands Christianity..You hear that folks he claims Jesus was a sinner - do you believe it?Go into any Christian church and tell them Jesus is a sinner and they are all wrong and see what they say or do you think they will agree with you.

He came and took on flesh and a soul to save humanity and you say " So what" That says it all we don't need to talk any more after that comment.

 

[ElieG12]

You quit free to believe Jesus is a sinner I'm fine with that

Are you serious?

but its not what I believe and almost every other Christian and its what is taught.But go ahead preach away that Jesus was a sinner

Again?

I'm sure your not the first no one is going to buy in who understands Christianity..You hear that folks he claims Jesus was a sinner - do you believe it?

Again?

Go into any Christian church and tell them Jesus is a sinner and they are all wrong and see what they say or do you think they will agree with you.

Again?

People can read what I wrote and it's evident that it was not that you are saying. You should stop slandering other Christians, accusing them of saying things they have never said.

 

[ElieG12]

The biblical perspective on an imperfect individual (after our first parents fall) is that they are born as sinners, even before committing any visible sin. From the moment of birth, they possess inherent flaws that incline them toward wrongdoing. This inherent nature often leads them to actions that violate divine principles.

In contrast, a perfect human being is not born with an inclination toward sin and thus does not naturally gravitate toward wrongdoing from birth. However, a perfect individual, lacking that tendency, can still choose to stray from the righteous path through their own free will, consciously and voluntarily. This is what occurred with the angel who became Satan and those who followed him, as well as with Adam and Eve. They were all perfect, not sinners "from birth," but became sinners even though they were perfect.

The situation with Jesus is akin to those who were perfect and faced temptation. Jesus chose to remain faithful to God and, as a result, did not become a sinner. Instead, he remained obedient through his own deliberate choice.

 

[quietthinker]

Could Jesus have sinned?​

If he couldn't I doubt the Devil would have tried to get him to.

 

[Matthias]

Could Jesus have sinned?​

If he couldn't I doubt the Devil would have tried to get him to.

I agree. If the temptation of Messiah wasn’t a genuine temptation (it was) then the incident (which truly occurred) isn’t impressive (it is).

The Messiah was tempted, just as all human persons are tempted. He prevailed where everyone failed.

The real temptation of Messiah -> the true biblical story

The non-temptation of Messiah -> falsification / denial of the biblical story

 

[ChristinaL]

It could have happened, right?



We are told in the Bible of the many temptations that Jesus faced during his earthly life. For example, in the Gospel of Matthew, we read the following:



Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. After he fasted forty days and forty nights (which means Jesus did not eat the mid-day meal during those 40 days, he could eat morning and evening) he was famished. The tempter came and said to him, "If you are the Son of God, command these stones to become bread."



And you know the rest of the story. Jesus quotes Scripture, and after all is said and done, he overcomes these temptations, and the devil departs for a while. We are told later by the writer of the book of Hebrews that Jesus was tempted in all points like we are.



Let’s take a look at what appears to have been a possibility: Jesus sinning. Some theologians believe that Christ could have sinned, otherwise the temptations were not temptations at all.



Let’s further speculate: What would have happened to Jesus had he sinned?



Well, a person who sins is a sinner. So, I guess the answer to this question is that Jesus would have become a sinner. But would God have abandoned Jesus? Would not God have provided a means of salvation for his now sinful son, as well as us?



He would have had to. I mean, God made promises to people long before Jesus was born, and many of those promises included salvation. Fortunately, even if Jesus failed/sinned, God the Father could have provided for our salvation, as well as Jesus’.



But, that raises yet another question, or better yet, a dilemma.



Since Jesus could have sinned (I speak as a man), I guess we would have to be consistent and say the God the Father could sin also. Why would he have been any different?



In fact, Jesus came to die on the cross for us. Assuming he sinned, God the Father would then have to go to the cross. Someone had to pay the penalty for sin! God loves the world because he is love.



Since we are thinking hypothetically, let’s further assume that God the Father would have come to earth to die for us, that is, God the Father would have had to pick up where Jesus left off.



Let’s follow this bizarre idea, since if Jesus could have sinned, such a possibility must have existed. We are only examining what the Bible tells us: That Jesus was tempted.



With Jesus a sinner, God the Father now offers himself as a sacrifice for the sins of the world.



So, God the Father comes to earth to die for our sins. But suppose He also yielded to temptation and sinned, just as his son did. (God forbid!)



That’s Two down, One to go. I mean, we believe in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. With the Son and Father now sinners, the Holy Spirit is the last chance for all sinners, including now the Father and Son, both of whom have joined the ranks with us sinners.



As respectfully as I can, may I ask one final question: What if the Holy Spirit came to redeem all sinners, and what if, and I mean this is stretching it, but what if he also gave in to temptation and became a sinner?



If Jesus could have sinned, then it would follow that so could his equals (the Father and Holy Spirit).



Admittedly this did not happen, but we simply must conceive of what would have happened had Jesus sinned! If the temptations were real, he had to have been able to give in; otherwise the temptations were not real, right?

One final observation. Jesus was prophesied/promised to die and be resurrected in order for him to rule over the nation of Israel. If Jesus had sinned, this would make many OT promises a lie. The implications of Jesus sinning are staggering.

I can see you are trying to be respectful here but this sort of contemplation is evil and really completely pointless

 

[Matthias]

The Bible teaches Jesus was God the father.

In a manner of speaking - to see and hear Jesus is to see and hear his Father - but they aren’t the same person.

God cannot sin.

God cannot sin. The man could have but didn’t.

 

[Stumpmaster]

The man could have but didn’t.

Speaks to the predeterminate purposes of God.

Act 2:22-24 "Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know— (23) Him, being delivered by the determined purpose and foreknowledge of God, you have taken by lawless hands, have crucified, and put to death; (24) whom God raised up, having loosed the pains of death, because it was not possible that He should be held by it.

 

[Taken]

Could Jesus have sinned?


No! And because Why.

Jesus was born of God…
Sin is standing AGAINST God…
God can NOT stand AGAINST Himself.

Same reason men “IN” Christ are born of God, and have Gods Spirit “IN” them, and neither can they Stand / Sin Against God.

1 John 3:
[9] Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

AND…Because…
1 John 4:
[4] Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Biblepaige]

Could Jesus have sinned?

No.

Why Not?

Because JESUS “IS” the TRUTH…
The TRUTH can NOT …
** NOT believe IN God.
** NOT be Against God.
(Which UN-Belief IS precisely the SIN of man AGAINST God.)

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

AMEN!

 

[Matthias]

The second Adam did what the first Adam could have done, should have done, but failed to do.

Tempted in every way we are (Hebrews 4:15) - because he is one of us.

 

[Taken]

The second Adam did what the first Adam could have done, should have done, but failed to do.

Agree…
First Adam could have refused and did refuse to eat from the Tree of Life.
First Adam was forgiven, (our notice when an animal was slaughtered and it’s skin used to cover First Adam’s body that sinned)
First Adam Could have taken and eaten from the Tree of Life on his way out of the Garden, but didn’t.

Tempted in every way we are (Hebrews 4:15) - because he is one of us.

Tempt…Tempted…Temptation…Tempting…strange words, that applies to BOTH the Tempt-ER and the Tempt-EE….

Satan Tempt-ED Jesus…YET even though Satan Tempt-ED Jesus…Jesus was NOT Tempt-ED, to consider Satan’s Temptation…and further was (as was His purpose) an example to manKind of “how to” REJECT a Tempt-ER’S Temptation.

No, Jesus is Not one of us (a human).
Jesus IS Spirit, Who came to earth …. IN the LIKENESS….AS….a man…in a body God Prepared….TO Seek the Lost Jews….and Offer His Prepared Body unto Death….FOR the Life of the world….(and men who would choose to willingly accept AND TAKE His offering….)
Not unlike…God Offering Adam the Tree of Life, and Adam’s freewill choice to reach out and Take the Offering…..or not.

God bless you.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Thanks. There is no possibility of agreement between us.

I’m curious though to know if other members don’t believe Jesus was a human.

No issue we disagree…

I believe Human body’s come FROM the Earth, are formed by the hand of God, Live, sustain their bodily life From the elements of their habitat…Earth…and Must die, decay, rot and shall return to the Earth.

Scripture DOES NOT TEACH Jesus Came out of the Earth or that His body decayed, and returned to the Earth.

God IS Spirit…God created spirit beings…(angels)….even Angels have the Power to Appear in the LIKENESS AS A MAN, and human men would NOT know the difference…
ya think, God Himself gave MORE POWER to His created Angels…then He Himself Has?
Ya think, God Himself has NOT THE POWER to appear to manKind IN THE LIKENESS AS A MAN?

Read the Scriptures…LIKE a man, AS a man …. Does not make a Spirit a “human man”.

Glory to God,
Taken