commonly believed facets of the apostacy

[teamventure]

also known as the falling away from the Lord's doctrine to the doctrine of demons.

i'll list three apostacies that i have come in contact with:

1) prosperity docrtine: the belief that with enough faith you will prosper and that if you suffer, you simply have a lack of faith.
this is the same crap that was used on job when he was suffering. suffering does not equal a lack of faith.

2) halloween: belief that halloween is ok to celebrate. saying happy halloween to people is an example.

3) replacement theology: the belief that all the promises to Israel have been replaced by the church. that's saying that God's promises don't last when in fact they last forever.
even Hitler used replacement theology to spread antisemitism.

people are welcome to list commonly believed apostacies that they have experienced to get them out in the open and expose the lies of the devil.

 

[aspen]

Umm

One person's apostasy is another person's reformation. This thread is even controversial for me! And I was complaining to myself about nice threads, just a minute ago..........

 

[prism]

#1 the dismal economy has put a real damper on that yesteryear prosperity heresy.

I think #2 halloween is just a symptom of the rising popularity of witchcraft today which is a truer mark of apostacy.

#3 is truly the biggie with the growing anti semitism in the world today and the 'spiritualizing' of biblical prophecy especially amongst the Reformed and Lutherans.

I think a rising heresy is this http://www.wnd.com/2...titles-for-god/ Confusing the Christian God with Allah god

 

[teamventure]

thanks for helping with my thread prism. nice to meet you. um, and aspen, you are speaking as if truth were subjective. In the end God will decide what is and what isn't an apostacy or reformation, and what you consider reformation will be quite irrelivent.

oh and aspen. i won't appologies for stepping on your toes by making a controversial thread. Jesus was very controversal to the pharasies. we need threads like this to point out God's truth in such evil times, these times of the apostacy.

 

[teamventure]

just saw a priest on tv who is for abortion. that's apostacy right in your face!!!

 

[aspen]

You are not stepping on my toes at all. I am just glad I am not the only one who posts controversial topics. And no, I do not think Truth is subjective, but opinions are and this is an opinion board.

 

[veteran]

also known as the falling away from the Lord's doctrine to the doctrine of demons.

i'll list three apostacies that i have come in contact with:

1) prosperity docrtine: the belief that with enough faith you will prosper and that if you suffer, you simply have a lack of faith.
this is the same crap that was used on job when he was suffering. suffering does not equal a lack of faith.

2) halloween: belief that halloween is ok to celebrate. saying happy halloween to people is an example.

3) replacement theology: the belief that all the promises to Israel have been replaced by the church. that's saying that God's promises don't last when in fact they last forever.
even Hitler used replacement theology to spread antisemitism.

people are welcome to list commonly believed apostacies that they have experienced to get them out in the open and expose the lies of the devil.

When you refer to ideas like "the apostasy" per your thread title, I assume you speak of Paul's warnings per 2 Thessalonians 2, which is not really about any... of the points you listed...


II Th 2:1-11
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Two major events must occur PRIOR to Christ's return and our gathering to Him...

1. A great falling away (apostasia - apostasy),

ALONG WITH...

2. the man of sin, son of perdition revealed coming to sit in the Temple of God, showing himself that he is God, exalting himself over all that is called God, or that is worshipped.

Let's see, would a false one coming to sit in the temple, proclaiming himself to be God, and exalting himself over all that is worshipped cause a great apostasy (falling away) of many believers in the last days? Yes! But how??


5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
(KJV)

Oh, there it is. That false one is to come working "all power and signs and lying wonders". In Matt.24 and Mark 13 and Rev.13, Christ showed us that false one will work great wonders and miracles so powerful in deception that it would almost cause His own elect to believe it, if it were possible for His elect to be deceived (they won't be).

And also, Paul tells us when Christ returns with the brightness of His coming, to destroy that Wicked one, that... is when that false one will be 'revealed'. Shucks, there goes all the pointing to some existing antichrist figure today, for this man of sin isn't to be revealed to the world until Christ's second coming!

That event... is what the great apostasy of God's people will be about in the last days.

 

[veteran]

also known as the falling away from the Lord's doctrine to the doctrine of demons.
....

3) replacement theology: the belief that all the promises to Israel have been replaced by the church. that's saying that God's promises don't last when in fact they last forever.
even Hitler used replacement theology to spread antisemitism.

Now for that 3rd point. (I pretty much agree with the first and second points can HELP lead a believer astray from Christ, but they aren't the specific false one to come that's to work great signs and wonders to cause apostasy that Paul was talking about in 2 Thess.2).

The seminary term Supersessionism is what you're really talking about with the term "replacement theology". Replacement theology is a slang term for Supersessionism.

It's the idea that New Testament doctrine of Christ Jesus and His Apostles replaced the Old Covenant doctrine of Moses given to Israel.

Fact is, Jesus of Nazareth The Christ, did replace the Old Covenant with His New Testament Covenant by shedding His Blood upon the cross.

And, many (but not all) of God's Promises to Israel continued through the believing remnant of Israel per that New Covenant in Christ Jesus (Rom.11:1-5). Then believing Gentiles along with them have been graffed together as one body in Christ Jesus to become His Church today (Rom.11:7-36; Ephesians 2).

However, there are still 'some' promises to Israel which God gave them which are still in effect for unbelieving Israel which still refuse Christ Jesus today. And one of those is about conversion of many of them to Christ Jesus in final (Isaiah 11; Isaiah 45; 54; Ezek.37; Jeremiah 3; 31; Ezekiel 47-48, etc.). Most of those promises still in effect for unbelieving Israel involve the "house of Judah", those who later became known as Jews (origin of that name per the Jewish historian Josephus).

What does this mean for that term 'replacement theology' then?

It points to a term orthodox unbelieving Israelites use in trying to keep the Old Covenant alive, when Christ Jesus ended it as written.

And NO... person of Israelite birth that accepts Jesus of Nazareth as The Christ should be proposing that 'replacement theology' term IF... they have truly believed on The New Covenant through the Blood of Jesus Christ shed upon the cross.

 

[Lively Stone]

OP~ I don't see any apostasies. What I see are what someone claims are heresies.

 

[teamventure]

You are not stepping on my toes at all. I am just glad I am not the only one who posts controversial topics. And no, I do not think Truth is subjective, but opinions are and this is an opinion board.

good. thanks aspen..

 

[teamventure]

When you refer to ideas like "the apostasy" per your thread title, I assume you speak of Paul's warnings per 2 Thessalonians 2, which is not really about any... of the points you listed...


II Th 2:1-11
1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto Him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Two major events must occur PRIOR to Christ's return and our gathering to Him...

1. A great falling away (apostasia - apostasy),

ALONG WITH...

2. the man of sin, son of perdition revealed coming to sit in the Temple of God, showing himself that he is God, exalting himself over all that is called God, or that is worshipped.

Let's see, would a false one coming to sit in the temple, proclaiming himself to be God, and exalting himself over all that is worshipped cause a great apostasy (falling away) of many believers in the last days? Yes! But how??


5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of His mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
(KJV)

Oh, there it is. That false one is to come working "all power and signs and lying wonders". In Matt.24 and Mark 13 and Rev.13, Christ showed us that false one will work great wonders and miracles so powerful in deception that it would almost cause His own elect to believe it, if it were possible for His elect to be deceived (they won't be).

And also, Paul tells us when Christ returns with the brightness of His coming, to destroy that Wicked one, that... is when that false one will be 'revealed'. Shucks, there goes all the pointing to some existing antichrist figure today, for this man of sin isn't to be revealed to the world until Christ's second coming!

That event... is what the great apostasy of God's people will be about in the last days.

actually no, that's not what i was refering to. here's a verse:
1 Timothy 4:1

Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons

that puts it in a nutshell.

 

[Stefcui]

...three apostacies that i have come in contact with:

3) replacement theology: the belief that all the promises to Israel have been replaced by the church.

What you call “replacement theology” is one of the oldest doctrines of the church. You have your facts wrong! All of the earliest church father believed in “replacement theology”. It is your view that is a new doctrine (apostasy) among Christians. The Jewish people threw money at the church to promote a restoration of Jews in Israel. Almost all churches received monies from Lord Rothschild to promote Judaism; even Jehovah's Witnesses. This was Judas money. England spearheaded the new “Jewish Restoration” movement in the 17[sup]th[/sup] century, and they also supervised the change of hands of Israel into Palestine from 1917.

It was Christian Freemasons, like Cyrus Scofield and Tim Lahaye, who became the Jewish sales-people among the churches. It is you who have been fooled into believing this. You have the “falling away” and “great apostasy” back to front.

Steve

 

[veteran]

actually no, that's not what i was refering to. here's a verse:
1 Timothy 4:1

Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons

that puts it in a nutshell.

But notice that... goes with this...


Rev 16:12-14
12 And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
(KJV)

 

[teamventure]

What you call “replacement theology” is one of the oldest doctrines of the church. You have your facts wrong! All of the earliest church father believed in “replacement theology”. It is your view that is a new doctrine (apostasy) among Christians. The Jewish people threw money at the church to promote a restoration of Jews in Israel. Almost all churches received monies from Lord Rothschild to promote Judaism; even Jehovah's Witnesses. This was Judas money. England spearheaded the new “Jewish Restoration” movement in the 17[sup]th[/sup] century, and they also supervised the change of hands of Israel into Palestine from 1917.

It was Christian Freemasons, like Cyrus Scofield and Tim Lahaye, who became the Jewish sales-people among the churches. It is you who have been fooled into believing this. You have the “falling away” and “great apostasy” back to front.

Steve

ok. well when the Lord Jesus comes back he'll straighten out which one of us are wrong. how bout that.

 

[veteran]

What you call “replacement theology” is one of the oldest doctrines of the church. You have your facts wrong! All of the earliest church father believed in “replacement theology”. It is your view that is a new doctrine (apostasy) among Christians. The Jewish people threw money at the church to promote a restoration of Jews in Israel. Almost all churches received monies from Lord Rothschild to promote Judaism; even Jehovah's Witnesses. This was Judas money. England spearheaded the new “Jewish Restoration” movement in the 17[sup]th[/sup] century, and they also supervised the change of hands of Israel into Palestine from 1917.

It was Christian Freemasons, like Cyrus Scofield and Tim Lahaye, who became the Jewish sales-people among the churches. It is you who have been fooled into believing this. You have the “falling away” and “great apostasy” back to front.

Steve

From what I've researched on the term 'Replacement Theology', that specific term is a later used label for the early Church's idea that Israel was replaced by Christ's Church per New Covenant theology. There's varrying views on that idea. Doesn't mean I agree with all of them.

So I was not getting my Church history wrong as you infer. I was attempting to clear up the usage of that later term which teamventure used in the OP. And that because of how often it's been used here on this Forum.

Obviously, you're so bent on trying to catch me on something, that you jumped to conclusions!

 

[veteran]

What you call “replacement theology” is one of the oldest doctrines of the church. You have your facts wrong! All of the earliest church father believed in “replacement theology”. It is your view that is a new doctrine (apostasy) among Christians. The Jewish people threw money at the church to promote a restoration of Jews in Israel. Almost all churches received monies from Lord Rothschild to promote Judaism; even Jehovah's Witnesses. This was Judas money. England spearheaded the new “Jewish Restoration” movement in the 17[sup]th[/sup] century, and they also supervised the change of hands of Israel into Palestine from 1917.

I have not pushed the idea that the Replacement theology idea is an apostate doctrine; teamventure in his op here did, which is why I responded like I did in my post #8. Try reading it before making false accusations against me.

As for orthodox Jewry's influence upon Christian leaders, I'm well aware of that.

It was Christian Freemasons, like Cyrus Scofield and Tim Lahaye, who became the Jewish sales-people among the churches. It is you who have been fooled into believing this. You have the “falling away” and “great apostasy” back to front.

Steve

Difficult to prove who's a Freemason and who's not, unless they themselves reveal that. And even then it would be difficult to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt, unless one followed them into a Masonic lodge or some such function. Some have said that Billy Graham was a 33rd degree Mason too. Not that I'm taking up for those you mention; I'm not. I don't hold to any of the Pre-trib Rapture theories. Thus, so much for Satan's darts you've tried to use against me there, which is idiotic.

 

[Stefcui]

Obviously, you're so bent on trying to catch me on something, that you jumped to conclusions!

I did not mention you or anything about you... I do not dare. You have jumped to conclusions. You have not read my post properly. I do not want to get caught in useless discussions with you anymore, so I carefully avoid you.

ok. well when the Lord Jesus comes back he'll straighten out which one of us are wrong. how bout that.

That sounds fine, in the meanwhile, if you are going to call what I believe apostasy, I would like clear evidence of what you are saying is true. Prove to me from the scriptures and history that "replacement theology" is apostasy, when all of the earliest Christians held to this view. Show me 2 or 3 examples of 2nd or 3rd century Christians believing what you believe... (By the mouth of two or three witnesses)... otherwise you are just speading propaganda like a sales-person.

 

[teamventure]

I did not mention you or anything about you... I do not dare. You have jumped to conclusions. You have not read my post properly. I do not want to get caught in useless discussions with you anymore, so I carefully avoid you.



That sounds fine, in the meanwhile, if you are going to call what I believe apostasy, I would like clear evidence of what you are saying is true. Prove to me from the scriptures and history that "replacement theology" is apostasy, when all of the earliest Christians held to this view. Show me 2 or 3 examples of 2nd or 3rd century Christians believing what you believe... (By the mouth of two or three witnesses)... otherwise you are just speading propaganda like a sales-person.

on the topic of replacement theology, it is the people who believe it on these threads who need to do the explaining since you are the ones who claim that God's promises to Israel have been replaced.
here's scripture, "I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you!!" do you believe that those who bless Israel will be blessed and those who curse them will be cursed?!!

 

[veteran]

I did not mention you or anything about you... I do not dare. You have jumped to conclusions. You have not read my post properly. I do not want to get caught in useless discussions with you anymore, so I carefully avoid you.

You are right. I stand corrected.

 

[prism]

I did not mention you or anything about you... I do not dare. You have jumped to conclusions. You have not read my post properly. I do not want to get caught in useless discussions with you anymore, so I carefully avoid you.



That sounds fine, in the meanwhile, if you are going to call what I believe apostasy, I would like clear evidence of what you are saying is true. Prove to me from the scriptures and history that "replacement theology" is apostasy, when all of the earliest Christians held to this view. Show me 2 or 3 examples of 2nd or 3rd century Christians believing what you believe... (By the mouth of two or three witnesses)... otherwise you are just speading propaganda like a sales-person.

I wont charge apostasy to those who hold to replacement theology but they do hold the seeds. The 2nd and 3rd century fathers many used a form of allegorizing the Scripture (as oppoosed to a more literal approach) and this practice easily leads to errors such as 'replacement' theology.
I am not impressed in the least when people try using the Church Fathers as 'authorities', been there done that, since they were full of disagreements amongst themselves.(Nicene and Apostles Creed an exception).
Why not go back to the source, to that 1st Century Apostle, Apostle Paul? I believe he spoke with just a 'little' more authority than ALL the Fathers combined. Romans 9-11 speaks rather clearly unless one allegorizes what Paul is saying. Take for instance (in Rom 11) his example with the wild shoots (gentiles) and natural shoots (Abraham's offspring through Isaac),; Paul interplays them never confusing them or even having one replace the other.He even warns the gentiles about any boasting of 'branches being broken off that I may be grafted in'...sounds like some sort of replacement idea to me.