CHURCH ELDERS MUST HOLD TO THE MYSTERY

[Scott Downey]

Holding the mystery of the faith, primarily is the mystery of godliness. If they do not recognize Christ as God come in the flesh, they are disqualified to be ministering.

John says such are antichrist.

Without question, great is the mystery of godliness: God was revealed in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, taken up into glory.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Absolutely brother
That is the number one thing to believe together

Baptism is for a believer after they have received the gospel..

 

[Ronald Nolette]

[Eph 4:5 KJV] 5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

Paul said there is only one baptism

[1Co 12:13 KJV] 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

We are baptized by the Spirit not water

Without being baptized by the Spirit, one is not saved.

Water Baptism is something the church has been doing since after pentecost. It is a sign of obedience and discipleship. And a public declaration we have committed to following Jesus.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Paul says this nowhere
Paul gives us what we should do
Israel baptized to be obedient not us

That was John the Baptists baptism.

Paul baptized the philippian jailer and his family and the few mentioned Corinthians

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I will not say why Paul baptized some either but I was asking why Paul never said to be baptized so we would be obedient

Not so we would be obedient but as an act of obedience.

Jesus commanded the apostles to go worldwide baptizing (with water) to all nations not just Jews.

Phillip baptized the Ethiopian Eunuch. It is simply showing obedience to th ecommand of Matt. 28. That is not the spirit baptism, that happens at regeneration. this is an act a believer does in obedience.

 

[Doug]

Holding the mystery of the faith, primarily is the mystery of godliness. If they do not recognize Christ as God come in the flesh, they are disqualified to be ministering.

John says such are antichrist.

Without question, great is the mystery of godliness: God was revealed in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, preached to the Gentiles, believed on in the world, taken up into glory.

There is another way to look at this mystery of godliness
The church could well be the mystery
[2Co 4:11 KJV] 11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
The church could be the manifestation of Jesus in the flesh by our godliness

 

[Scott Downey]

There is another way to look at this mystery of godliness
The church could well be the mystery
[2Co 4:11 KJV] 11 For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
The church could be the manifestation of Jesus in the flesh by our godliness

The church is a mystery to the world, but the message seems to me to be towards the people of God and who gets to be their ministers.

 

[Doug]

Jesus commanded the apostles to go worldwide baptizing (with water) to all nations not just Jews.

Yes the twelve were commanded this
Paul never told us the church the Body of Christ to be baptized
The twelve never did fulfill this.....I understand that they will be raised to enter the Davidic kingdom on earth and fulfill this

 

[Doug]

Phillip baptized the Ethiopian Eunuch. It is simply showing obedience to th ecommand of Matt. 28. That is not the spirit baptism, that happens at regeneration. this is an act a believer does in obedience.

Paul gives the church the Body the instructions and commandments as revealed to him by Christ and you want find the commandment to be water baptized....in fact he says there is one baptism

 

[Doug]

That was John the Baptists baptism.

Paul baptized the philippian jailer and his family and the few mentioned Corinthians

Yes Paul said he baptized some but it still remains that he never told us the body of Christ to be water baptized

Israel had to be baptized for remission of sins to enter the Davidic kingdom on earth

 

[Doug]

Without being baptized by the Spirit, one is not saved.

Yes

 

[Doug]

Water Baptism is something the church has been doing since after pentecost.

The church the Body of Christ did not start at Pentecost
The existing church was added to....this was the church comprised of the believing remnant of Israel
[Act 2:47 KJV] 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

 

[Doug]

It is a sign of obedience and discipleship. And a public declaration we have committed to following Jesus.

Please give me the verses to support this

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Yes the twelve were commanded this
Paul never told us the church the Body of Christ to be baptized
The twelve never did fulfill this.....I understand that they will be raised to enter the Davidic kingdom on earth and fulfill this

Your understanidng is not based on Scripture.

Well Jesus commanded it and He would not give Paul different marching orders especially seeing as he water baptized people!

The church the Body of Christ did not start at Pentecost
The existing church was added to....this was the church comprised of the believing remnant of Israel
[Act 2:47 KJV] 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

Wrong!

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus said "will" meaning in the future. He did not say keep building or continue building or add to the existing..... The church began at Pentecost and entrance into teh church is to be indwelt by the Spirit. this did not occur until Pentecost. Paul said that.

Yes Paul said he baptized some but it still remains that he never told us the body of Christ to be water baptized

Israel had to be baptized for remission of sins to enter the Davidic kingdom on earth

Once again that was JOhn the Baptists baptism. Jesus gave teh church a different baptism.

 

[Doug]

Phillip baptized the Ethiopian Eunuch. It is simply showing obedience to th ecommand of Matt. 28. That is not the spirit baptism, that happens at regeneration. this is an act a believer does in obedience.

Let me say I attended a Baptist church and they had the gospel pretty right but they said water baptism was an act of public witness and to be a church member and it was an act of obedience. I believed that back then but there was no basis in scripture for any of it.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Let me say I attended a Baptist church and they had the gospel pretty right but they said water baptism was an act of public witness and to be a church member and it was an act of obedience. I believed that back then but there was no basis in scripture for any of it.

Well that is your problem, and not Gods nor the Scripture nor believing churches that call on Baptism as an ordinance to be obeyed (not for salvation though)

 

[Doug]

Your understanidng is not based on Scripture.

[Dan 7:18 KJV] 18 But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

[Mat 20:21, 23 KJV] 21 And he said unto her, What wilt thou? She saith unto him, Grant that these my two sons may sit, the one on thy right hand, and the other on the left, in thy kingdom. ... 23 And he saith unto them, Ye shall drink indeed of my cup, and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with: but to sit on my right hand, and on my left, is not mine to give, but [it shall be given to them] for whom it is prepared of my Father.

The remnant of Israel and the disciples will be raised to enter the kingdom

[Gal 2:9 KJV] 9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we [should go] unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

I say they did not fulfill their commision because they abdicated going to the heathen nations

 

[Doug]

Well that is your problem, and not Gods nor the Scripture nor believing churches that call on Baptism as an ordinance to be obeyed (not for salvation though)

I was only conveying that I get why believers say they need to be baptized because this teaching is prevalent
What scripture says to be water baptized for any reason in Paul's epistles?

 

[Doug]

Well Jesus commanded it and He would not give Paul different marching orders especially seeing as he water baptized people!

[Mat 10:5 KJV] 5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

They were not to go to Gentiles or to Samaritans

[Mar 16:15 KJV] 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.

Now they are to go to all,,,,,,so we see a difference in "marching orders"

Paul was not commanded to require water baptism in this dispensation

 

[Doug]

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Jesus said "will" meaning in the future. He did not say keep building or continue building or add to the existing..... The church began at Pentecost and entrance into teh church is to be indwelt by the Spirit. this did not occur until Pentecost. Paul said that.

I said
The church the Body of Christ did not start at Pentecost
The existing church was added to....this was the church comprised of the believing remnant of Israel
[Act 2:47 KJV] 47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

The church in Acts 2 is not the Body of Christ

Who was Peter addressing?

[Act 2:22 KJV] 22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

He was addressing Israel

[Act 2:42 KJV] 42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

Whose teaching was this church following NOT PAUL'S but the twelve disciples

[Act 8:3 KJV] 3 As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed [them] to prison.
[1Co 15:9 KJV] 9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

There was a church before Paul was converted which he persecuted