Christ Died for All

[Eternally Grateful]

A word of advice. If you were a Missionary, you would use the words of those where you are going. Saint Paul said he became All things in hope to win some. What if you went to China, but made them learn your language; before you would Preach to them?

Refusing to use your opponent's Verbage, is an easy way to avoid Truth; an excuse. The 'words' Hypostatic Union is True; you don't Mind using it. If you aren't interested in reaching the heart of the matter, why are you here? I consider myself an ABC 123 mini Theologian who can say the same thing as High Theologians; but in an elementary way. So I HAVE become all things in hope to win some...

Give it a try...

all I am saying is the only people I ever hears use the term prevenient grace and other things like that are Catholics.
'
you usually can not talk to them anyway.

Thats also why I tried to look up words in the other chatroom.

 

[Keiw]

Keiw,
I am struggling to understand your replies. So allow me some questions and please try to answer them clearly?

1. "When you say Jesus' death covers all true believers sins who live now through Armag.. " That means JWs, correct?

2. Do you mean Jesus' blood covers all JWs personal sins? Because it sounds as if you are saying that, but we know that is not what is taught by Jw gov body.

3. As for all of the dead JWs- they don't come under the blood of Jesus because when they died physically- you are saying that their own death is what paid for all of their personal sins ( as well as Adam's sin)? correct? (Romans 6)

4. So it is only a free gift for those who are alive at end of Armageddon, but the dead JWs don't need the free gift because they already paid by dying?

Do I have this straight now?

Only repented sin=stop doing the sin( turn around)( Acts 3:19) is forgiven. Any can do that. But that is only 1 thing a mortal must do to be brought through Armageddon into Gods kingdom and may never taste death( these must pass the final test as well)
All will have their faith tested by satan when he is loosed for a little while. The ones who stand get life everlasting. All deserve death, that is why it is grace.

 

[Keiw]

"These"?" Who are "these" you speak of?

These= the workers of iniquity( one who practices a sin)-they believe( Matt 7:21-23)-- see they will be calling on Jesus to be saved but will hear Jesus say to them as judgement--Get away from me i never even knew you.

 

[PS95]

Only repented sin=stop doing the sin( turn around)( Acts 3:19) is forgiven.

Of course Christians teach confessing and repenting- 1 John 1:7-9
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

but the watchtower does not teach that Jesus died for all of our sins. They teach that He died for Adam's sin ONLY and only paved the way for us to gain eternal life by our own deaths to pay for our sins.
There is a huge difference there.
I'm glad that you know that Jesus died for all sin. Do you suppose one day the watchtower will come around and see this too? That's what I pray.

Any can do that. But that is only 1 thing a mortal must do to be brought through Armageddon into Gods kingdom and may never taste death( these must pass the final test as well)
All will have their faith tested by satan when he is loosed for a little while. The ones who stand get life everlasting. All deserve death, that is why it is grace.

and so your point is we earn it by getting thru Armageddon---- and for all those people who have already died- they are fine, since they died for their sins already.--- Is that what you are saying?-- I have never known Jws to be Universalists<-- (everyone will be saved), so how could all of the dead people if death paid for their sins not be saved? There must be more to what you believe than that.. ? please explain?

Keiw, this is not what the bible teaches- even your bible! . the entire thing is wrong other than repentance. I know that you believe that those men are teaching God's word accurately - but the mistakes they make are so huge that it makes me want to cry. I wish with all of my heart that I could come to you and just read the bible together and pray. I used to think they were right- but once I prayed about it and began reading my bible in context never jumping around -- it all became clear. It is never good to cherry pick verses and that is what they do, and they string them together for you to form teachings-- but that is not accurate. Most of these are letters in the NT and the context matters. It's a dangerous thing to do it the way they do, as you can make the bible say anything that way-- and many do that including some who say they are Christians. I see it here all of the time. They miss out on so much that the bible is saying. They end up with heresies.

 

[Berean]

These= the workers of iniquity( one who practices a sin)-they believe( Matt 7:21-23)-- see they will be calling on Jesus to be saved but will hear Jesus say to them as judgement--Get away from me i never even knew you.

Well, unless you're running for the high calling in Christ Jesus, this verse doesn't apply to you.

 

[PS95]

Well, unless you're running for the high calling in Christ Jesus, this verse doesn't apply to you.

Sadly, that and most of the NT scriptures. It's heartbreaking to see these biblically illiterate men do this to people.

 

[Keiw]

Of course Christians teach confessing and repenting- 1 John 1:7-9
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

but the watchtower does not teach that Jesus died for all of our sins. They teach that He died for Adam's sin ONLY and only paved the way for us to gain eternal life by our own deaths to pay for our sins.
There is a huge difference there.
I'm glad that you know that Jesus died for all sin. Do you suppose one day the watchtower will come around and see this too? That's what I pray.

and so your point is we earn it by getting thru Armageddon---- and for all those people who have already died- they are fine, since they died for their sins already.--- Is that what you are saying?-- I have never known Jws to be Universalists<-- (everyone will be saved), so how could all of the dead people if death paid for their sins not be saved? There must be more to what you believe than that.. ? please explain?

Keiw, this is not what the bible teaches- even your bible! . the entire thing is wrong other than repentance. I know that you believe that those men are teaching God's word accurately - but the mistakes they make are so huge that it makes me want to cry. I wish with all of my heart that I could come to you and just read the bible together and pray. I used to think they were right- but once I prayed about it and began reading my bible in context never jumping around -- it all became clear. It is never good to cherry pick verses and that is what they do, and they string them together for you to form teachings-- but that is not accurate. Most of these are letters in the NT and the context matters. It's a dangerous thing to do it the way they do, as you can make the bible say anything that way-- and many do that including some who say they are Christians. I see it here all of the time. They miss out on so much that the bible is saying. They end up with heresies.

Acts 3:19==Turn around= stop doing the sins
1Cor 6:9-11--This is what some of you were= past tense-these turned around and stopped doing the sins.

 

[Keiw]

Well, unless you're running for the high calling in Christ Jesus, this verse doesn't apply to you.

It applies to all.

 

[Berean]

but the watchtower does not teach that Jesus died for all of our sins. They teach that He died for Adam's sin ONLY and only paved the way for us to gain eternal life by our own deaths to pay for our sins.
There is a huge difference there.
I'm glad that you know that Jesus died for all sin. Do you suppose one day the watchtower will come around and see this too? That's what I pray.

They believe he died for Adam's sin, yet deny that Adam would benefit from that death. The scriptures are clear, Jesus died a "ransom for all." - 1 Timothy 2:6

 

[Keiw]

They believe he died for Adam's sin, yet deny that Adam would benefit from that death. The scriptures are clear, Jesus died a "ransom for all." - 1 Timothy 2:6

Jesus died to buy back what Adam had lost for mankind. Adam bought sin and death. Jesus bought life everlasting in perfection for those who obey.= Few on this earth.

 

[Berean]

Jesus died to buy back what Adam had lost for mankind. Adam bought sin and death. Jesus bought life everlasting in perfection for those who obey.= Few on this earth.

"Few on this earth", eh? You mean Jehovah's Witnesses, right?

Apparently Jesus died ONLY for "faithful" Jehovah's Witnesses, the few, the proud ... congratulations Keiw

 

[One 2 question]

Jesus died to buy back what Adam had lost for mankind

Quick question. Who did Jesus buy Adam back from? Who did He actually pay?

 

[PS95]

Acts 3:19==Turn around= stop doing the sins
1Cor 6:9-11--This is what some of you were= past tense-these turned around and stopped doing the sins.

Kiew,
I agree and have agreed probably 50 times on these boards that we are to repent of sins. I have NO idea why you keep repeating yourself and I have to agree with you again and again and again.
What is missing here? There is some sort of a disconnect.
I show you that Jesus died for YOUR sins and give you scriptures to prove that amazing grace-- and you give me scripture that says to repent. I agree with that.
So, why are you fighting the truth that Jesus died for YOUR sins- not only Adam's sin like the wtbs says?
You see, once you BELIEVE God that Jesus really did die for YOUR sins too-- you should rejoice.
Instead you argue and talk about sins- -- Yes that's the point- SINS?
Is this run around because you are still unsure or afraid of the men of the watchtower?
Believe God and the scriptures-- not the fallible men.

We know we sin- and we should feel guilt over our sins- so when we learn that Jesus died to pay the price for us and removes the penalty- we rejoice and praise God!! We come to him as we are- sinful. Then once we accept His gift- He washes us clean!
we begin to change inside and He helps us to grow- it's a process called sanctification where we are growing and learning and changing, It is all of God. We just cooperate and keep praying. He does this work in us. We pray, we read scriptures and cast all of our worries and fears on Him. He cares! We love Him because He first loved us!! How did he love us? By sending His son to pay for our sins!!! It is amazing and once you get that------------------------------ then you can worry about cleaning up your sins. He will help you.
We can't do it alone. We fail. He has ways that are very different. When I am tempted, I pray and He gives me strength immediately and shows me a way out. We can do nothing without Him!!

Trust Him. Ask him to help you believe HIs truth in the bible. Ask Him whatever you want to ask him! Don't be afraid. Tell Him you have confusion and fears- tell Him you want HIS TRUTH and ONLY HIS TRUTH. Tell him you have a zillion questions- tell Him whatever is going on inside of you. -- be 10000 % honest with Him.
Whatever you do please don't put your trust in man who can't even understand that Jesus died for OUR SINS.
They are wrong wrong wrong on this.
I hope this wasn't too long. I hope you read it. I hope you do it. I am praying for you.

 

[PS95]

They believe he died for Adam's sin, yet deny that Adam would benefit from that death. The scriptures are clear, Jesus died a "ransom for all." - 1 Timothy 2:6

I know that's what they teach..
But our friend, Keiw has been beginning to see that Jesus died for all sins. We have to truly believe God.. the thing is and I say this from experience being raised in WT teachings- that the years rote learning- the constant repetition of the same pet verses over and over all out of context- it gets you-- It does something-- to your brain .. it wires it. it's not good and it's a real thing that happens to people.

You can read the scriptures given to you, but if they disagree with the "wiring" you feel fear and reject it. You tell yourself things like- it can't really mean that, or there has to be more to it, or I will have to ask a jw elder. so many thoughts go thru the mind that it shuts down. It's very hard. I could give Keiw 40 verses about Jesus dying for our sins, and I have, but sinking them deep into the heart is very hard because of the wiring.
I feel so badly for these people. Been there. I would not wish it on an enemy.
You see how Keiw answers- it's programming -- the wiring talking. He can't help it.

When I cried out to God, I was shaking- I asked Him for His truth, and I told Him I was afraid, and He helped me. It was a long road, but he was there. I began reading only my bible in CONTEXT and it started to make sense to me! I was floored once I was done Romans. Then I kept going and Ephesians jumped off the pages and it kept going...! I wrestled with Paul and James over works but it soon became clear too- They agree. I had to constantly tell myself not to get ahead of myself because I would start to worry about things like the trinity or blood or what bible to trust- I actually used the nwt and nasb side by side for years... -- so many other things. I had to stay focused and pray and allow Him to teach me more. I praised Him and prayed and waited. When He teaches you - you know! Put all of my trust in Him as my refuge.
We really do need to lay down our burdens and take His yoke and learn from him. That's not in the bible for nothing, It is truth! It is so amazing.... Be like a little child and just believe what we read, and stop picking away at it. It will come together if we are patient and keep praying. Nothing like it in the whole wide world!

All I want for Keiw is to be set free in Christ. That's all.- because that's everything.