Catholic tradition, not the Bible, teaches a change to Sundaykeeping.

[Wrangler]

"Partnering" means something other than recognizing the culture that you are in. Gross misapplication of Scripture.

“Partnering”? How do you reconcile 2 Cor 6:14-18...?

You are going in circles. I JUST explained how I reconcile it!

You are invoking a term restricting partnering with merely recognizing the culture that you are in.

 

[Wrangler]

In real terms, how was Paul demonstrating that he could be “all things to all people”?

There you go again, deconstructing Scripture.

Being “all things to all people” includes participating in the cultural things they do. For Paul did not say “all things to all people, except for culturally relevant matters." It is thru living life together that we reach out to unbelievers.

Just in the last hour, I encountered a coworker at the end of his rope, who's lost hope, purpose and meaning. Knowing we both like cigars, I asked if he want to have a cigar with me some time. Through this cultural activity, I will share the Gospel.

 

[Wrangler]

He was “all things to all people”, but never at the expense of transgressing God’s commands through his Christ.
Talk about a gross misrepresentation of Scripture.....

Slander. As I said, you are turning joyous cultural celebrations into a sin. I showed you were God thinks this is good. Naturally, you double down on calling it transgressing God’s commands when it is NOTHING of the kind.

In fact, Christianity's success is largely due to assimiliating into other cultures.

 

[Wrangler]

We are not just talking about the names of days of the week....

We are also talking about the names of days of the week. The Buddha said that the beginning of wisdom is to call things by their proper name. Let's start there. What do the people of your nation call the 1st day of the week?

Then, we can talk about all the other goal post moving items you want!

 

[Wrangler]

Sunday was never “the Lord’s day”

More denial. I showed you links of the history beginning in the 1st century. Sunday was always “the Lord’s day” since the resurrection.

 

[Wrangler]

What matters to them is now and now Christ was always part of Christmas - even though that date was originally celebrated for a different reason from the culture the establishment of Christmas came from.

Is it what matters to humans that counts?

When you are trying to have a relationship with humans it does! You have to speak their language, partake of their customs, clothings, mannerism, food, etc.

But I am talking about history, fact based history. Not some kind of overly spiritualized view that you seem to espouse.

 

[Wrangler]

Go back to the first century and understand that this is exactly what it means.....the Gentiles who came to Christ had to put away every vestige of their former religion and its practices...and implement what Christ instructed them to do. A complete divorce from their culture and the adoption of a new one was required.

Completely untrue. The Bible includes the OT. Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. He cannot be that if it is completely a different culture that abandons the practice of honoring God and Creation. That's a mighty big vestige.

So much of what you are writing in this thread is untrue and goes against the Spirit of God in every way. I've shown you Scripture and doubt I will continue beyond Colossians 2:16 New International Version
16 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

 

[Wrangler]

Are you serious? Can you not see that today’s children don’t see Christ in Christmas, any more than they see him in Easter celebrations.

I am serious. 100%, totally serious. You are changing the subject from living joyfully, including the joyout celebrations of our culture, which includes:

1. Gifts exchanged at Christmas.
2. Candy given at Easter.
3. Gifts on Birthday's.

This joyous time is what children see first. Only as they mature might they connect the joy to the Savior. This is natural and there is nothing wrong with it in any way.

 

[Wrangler]

You act as if these times are the only ones that you can share with your family, or occasions to give gifts.

Not at all! That is a JW talking point.

You are denying the very point of anniversary holidays. It's not that the birth of Christ 2000 years ago was important. The annual anniversary is our reminder.

Sure, in theory I can give my wife flowers any old day. But Valentines Day is an anniversary celebrating such relationships in such ways ALSO. You keep presenting a False Alternative, AS IF celebrating anniversary means not any kind of celebration any other day. You are totally wrong and living without joy in this world. Such darkness in the face of light is stunning to me.

 

[Wrangler]

these days Christmas especially has become a financial burden for many, some who haven’t paid off last years debt to finance this year’s expenditure

That's true but besides the point.

 

[Grailhunter]

Some cultures named week days after gods. Some did not. Why did you bring it up in our discussion of the Lord's Day origins?

Just information….Christ resurrected on a day, it just so happened it was Sunday. And the Gentile-Christians made it the Christian day of worship before the end of the 1st century.

In the discussion of Sunday is Pagan and not a good day to worship the Lord….they are all same. The Jewish Saturday Sabath falls on the day for the god Saturn. Well the ones we deal with and the ones on your refrigerator are named after.

 

[Wrangler]

Anything Christian about that?

For the Lord is the Spirit, and wherever the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
2 Corinthians 3:17

There is Christ in the freedom to enjoy cultural celebrations.

 

[Wrangler]

Hmmm, no. Don't confuse WHAT people worship with HOW they worship.

When one deliberately alters the word of God, even a commandment, and replaces it with something of their own devising, they are placing their own authority above God's authority. How is that not a transgression against the 1st and 2nd commandment?

I have no idea how your post relates to mine.

 

[Wrangler]

Colossians 2:16

The Voice

​

16 So don’t let anyone stand in judgment over you and dictate what you should eat or drink, what festivals you should celebrate, or how you should observe a new moon or Sabbath days—

 

[Aunty Jane]

@Wrangler I am just going to leave those 12 posts there as a monument to the lengths some people will go to in order to justify what God condemns…..you go ahead and do whatever you want to, and justify all manner of things that you wish to maintain. Like I said…you don’t have to answer to me….but you will never be able to say no one told you.

It’s not just the big things, but the small things that count with God.
Luke 16:10, 13….
“One who is faithful in a very little is also faithful in much, and one who is dishonest in a very little is also dishonest in much. . . . .No servant can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.” (ESV)

You are happily enslaved to the commercial system which works hand in hand with the religious system in providing you with so many ways to offend God….and part you from your money.
Every event you celebrate enriches the greediest system in Satan’s world….and it promotes greed among children and adults alike……and causes so many domestic violence incidents that one wonders why they bother…..ask the police what time of year engenders more alcohol related domestic violence incidents than any other celebration? Why is that? Because there are very few “happy families” these days who are not divided by bitter divorces and squabbles over custody of children. Do you live in fairy land? Wake up and see what it is that you are promoting…..using the most inept justification I have ever seen to keep doing what you want to do, in spite of what the Bible clearly says…..

Read it again…2 Cor 6:14-18…

”Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,“I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,and I will be their God,and they shall be my people. Therefore go out from their midst,and be separate from them, says the Lord,and touch no unclean thing;then I will welcome you, and I will be a father to you,and you shall be sons and daughters to me,says the Lord Almighty.” (ESV)

There is to be “NO PARTNERSHIP” with false religion…..stated in the plainest of terms. We are to “SEPARATE” ourselves from all kinds of “unclean” false worship, which forms the basis of all the things you celebrate. As I said, you don’t have to justify them to me…..but you will never justify them to the God who inspired the Scriptures that you conveniently ignore.

”Culture” is not what you have adopted….as that pertains more to food, clothing and every day practices that are not religiously based, but more racially based.
Excuses are all you have offered…..and not a valid one among them.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Colossians 2:16​

​

The Voice​

16 So don’t let anyone stand in judgment over you and dictate what you should eat or drink, what festivals you should celebrate, or how you should observe a new moon or Sabbath days—

The very fact that you quote Scripture like this shows how little you know about what you quote….

This was written by Paul to Jewish Christians who now had the option under the new covenant to refrain from Jewish celebrations like the new moon and the sabbath, and eating things that under the old law were “unclean” for Jews….those who stood in judgment on those ones who were now refraining, were to be condemned….

You see how twisted your interpretations are?

 

[Brakelite]

Off topic in the strict sense, but not in the wider sense. Jesus had a saying towards the Pharisees where he mentioned that they "Strained at Gnats but Swallowed Camels". That saying is extremely true of Seventh Day Adventism if you study the movement from it's earliest days as a part of Miller's movement into them coming their own official movement and Church onward. I actually have a blogging series in mind covering the different milestones of them throughout their history where they seem to be doing their absolute best at times to ignore or disregard Biblical wisdom and principles in favor of their Present Truth revelation.

Yet it seems that those gnats are inspiring you to greater and greater heights of criticism.

 

[Wrangler]

The very fact that you quote Scripture like this shows how little you know about what you quote….

This was written by Paul to Jewish Christians who now had the option under the new covenant to refrain from Jewish celebrations like the new moon and the sabbath, and eating things that under the old law were “unclean” for Jews….those who stood in judgment on those ones who were now refraining, were to be condemned….

You see how twisted your interpretations are?

No. Using deconstruction, you are attempting to make Scripture inapplicable other than how you are twisting it. Don’t let anyone stand in judgment over you and dictate what ... festivals you should celebrate. Nuff said about Xmas, Easter, Birthdays, and God's word etc.

 

[Wrangler]

”Culture” is not what you have adopted….as that pertains more to food, clothing and every day practices that are not religiously based, but more racially based.
Excuses are all you have offered…..and not a valid one among them.

All Scriptural arguments and verses are valid. Sad that you attempt to equate culture with race. Very desperate.

 

[Brakelite]

No. Using deconstruction, you are attempting to make Scripture inapplicable other than how you are twisting it. Don’t let anyone stand in judgment over you and dictate what ... festivals you should celebrate. Nuff said about Xmas, Easter, Birthdays, and God's word etc.

What Paul was referring to here, while you and Jane both are reinterpreting it in a manner to suit your preconceived ideas, is the Jewish festivals that pointed to messiah. He is referring to that law which was for the Jews, the remedy for sin... the gospel. The annual festival sabbaths that were a part of the temple services and were fulfilled with the coming of Jesus.

Paul is not saying that anyone can do what they like with a specific commandment of the moral law and believe they shall not be judged for it. He is not referring to that law which if transgressed, necessitates the effectual application of the remedy, the gospel.

You guys, in order to justify disobedience to the 4th commandment, are arguing for the same result but from different perspectives. Both however are arguing for the abolition of the commandment of God in preference for a man made commandment. And what you and numerous others here are blind to, is that the Sunday observance as a sacred day and replacement for the 7th day sabbath was never sanctioned by God, by Jesus, nor by any of the apostles hence its complete absence from scripture. Regardless of its history... regardless of its early introduction into religious life... it's still a counterfeit and a satanic deception and replacement for the 4th commandment.