Catholic tradition, not the Bible, teaches a change to Sundaykeeping.

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Johann

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God could have used the rocks to produce his word…..he didn’t need corrupt men to do any of it.
The Scriptures were not written by a single Catholic….nor any of the church fathers…and for good reason.
The canon ends with the apostle John…..all the Bible writers were Jewish.
@Aunty Jane -Your statement touches on several important aspects of the formation of the Bible and the nature of divine inspiration. Here’s a detailed breakdown of these points:

Old Testament
Pentateuch:

Textual Tradition: “The Pentateuch: An Introduction to the First Five Books of the Old Testament” by James L. Mays offers a scholarly perspective on the authorship and compilation of the Torah.
Scholarly Consensus: The JEDP theory, discussed in “Introduction to the Old Testament” by H. H. Rowley, explores the Documentary Hypothesis which suggests multiple sources for the Pentateuch.
Historical and Prophetic Books:

Historical Context: “An Introduction to the Old Testament Historical Books” by David M. Howard Jr. provides insights into the authorship and historical context of books like Joshua and Judges.
Prophetic Literature: “The Prophets: An Introduction” by Michael D. Coogan covers the authorship and historical background of the prophetic books.
Psalms and Wisdom Literature:

Psalms: “The Psalms: Structure, Content, and Message” by Gerald H. Wilson explores the authorship and literary aspects of the Psalms.
Wisdom Literature: “Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and the Song of Solomon” by Michael V. Fox offers an analysis of the authorship and thematic content of these books.
New Testament
The Gospels:

Authorship and Dating: “The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?” by F. F. Bruce discusses the traditional authorship and dating of the Gospels.
Synoptic Problem: “The Synoptic Problem: A Way Through the Maze” by Mark Goodacre provides an analysis of the relationships between the Synoptic Gospels (Matthew, Mark, and Luke).
Acts of the Apostles:

Authorship: “The Acts of the Apostles: A Critical and Exegetical Commentary” by F. J. A. Hort discusses the authorship and historical context of Acts.
Epistles:

Pauline Epistles: “Paul: Apostle of the Heart Set Free” by F. W. Faber offers an in-depth look at the letters of Paul, their authorship, and their theological contributions.
General Epistles: “The General Epistles” by Peter H. Davids explores the authorship and themes of the letters attributed to Peter, James, and John.
Revelation:

Authorship and Interpretation: “Revelation: A Shorter Commentary” by G. K. Beale provides a scholarly perspective on the authorship and interpretation of the Book of Revelation.
Compilation of the Bible
Canon Formation:
Old Testament Canon: “The Formation of the Christian Biblical Canon” by Lee Martin McDonald offers an overview of how the Old Testament canon was established.
New Testament Canon: “The Canon of the New Testament: Its Origin, Development, and Significance” by Bruce M. Metzger provides a comprehensive study of the development of the New Testament canon.
These sources offer a range of scholarly insights into the authorship, compilation, and historical context of the Bible.

Really feel "sorry" that everything is corrupt-according to you.
J.
 

Wrangler

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Yep…and it’s called Easter…..helloooo. Find me Easter in the Bible, mate….
Your antagonism for your own culture is noted. Christianity spread into existing cultures and adopted customs as their own.

We've talked about this before. Just because cultural traditions pre-date Christianity does not mean Christians cannot adopt them and make them their own.
 

Brakelite

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Why? Is there an OT reference?
“If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: ”
Isaiah 58:13 KJV

And NT...
“Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath. ”
Mark 2:28
 

Brakelite

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Your antagonism for your own culture is noted. Christianity spread into existing cultures and adopted customs as their own.

We've talked about this before. Just because cultural traditions pre-date Christianity does not mean Christians cannot adopt them and make them their own.
Except when Jesus said not to. You know the one about vain worship right?
 

Aunty Jane

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Some inconsistencies-
There are NO inconsistencies.
Your position raises several important points and concerns about the origins of Christian practices and the early church's susceptibility to corruption.
As they should, among the rabble that became the “Christian“ faith…..how does one find the diamond in that pile of broken glass?
Observance of the Lord's Day
1. Biblical Basis for the Lord's Day:
The observance of the Lord's Day, which is commonly understood as Sunday, is rooted in the New Testament. In Acts 20:7 (Lexham Bible), we read: "On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul spoke to them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight." This passage indicates that the early church gathered on the first day of the week, which later became known as the Lord's Day, to break bread and hear teaching.

2. Early Christian Practice:
In 1 Corinthians 16:2 (Lexham Bible), Paul instructs: "On the first day of every week, each one of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come." This verse suggests that the early Christians were already setting aside time on the first day of the week for their collections, further supporting the practice of meeting on this day.
Please refer to posts #41 & #45 where I addressed those verses in the context of to whom, when, and why they were written.
3. Historical Context and Sun Worship:
While it's true that the first day of the week was associated with the Sun god in Roman culture, the Christian observance of Sunday is not necessarily a continuation of pagan practices. The early church distinguished its worship from pagan rituals by emphasizing the resurrection of Jesus Christ, as seen in Revelation 1:10 (Lexham Bible), where John refers to "the Lord’s day" as the day he was in the Spirit, indicating a distinct Christian significance.
It is also true that the Greek word “en” can be translated “on” or “in”….so mistranslating this seemingly insignificant word, can alter the verse that relates to all of this. Most Bibles will render it “on”….but if it is rendered more correctly as ”in”…then an entirely different scenario emerges.

Rev 1:10 speaks of the apostle John being transported in the spirit to “the Lord’s day”.
He was taken into the future and shown what would take place when Christ returned as King. It was “presented in signs“ or in figurative illustration to show his fellow Christians “the things that must shortly take place” (Rev 1:1)…..and we also know what the term “shortly” means to a timeless God. Here we are almost 2000 years later, and only now do we see the things mentioned in Revelation, taking place, along with the prophesy uttered by Jesus in Matt ch 24.
Full understanding was not revealed until it was time to do so. God gives understanding of his purpose, progressively, so when we need clarification, it is provided.

The sun worship incorporated into Catholic tradition and ritual, is still as visible today as it was to God when Jesus and his apostles foretold that “weeds” of counterfeit Christianity would take over the church and corrupt it from within. (Matt 13:24-30; 2 Peter 2:1-3; 2 Peter 2:17-22; 1 Timothy 4:1-3)
The "Weeds" of Apostasy
1. Apostolic Warnings:
Paul's warning about the "mystery of lawlessness" already at work (2 Thessalonians 2:7, Lexham Bible) emphasizes the presence of early corruption. This indicates that the seeds of apostasy were being sown even during the apostles' lifetimes. However, this does not necessarily imply that the entire church fell into error immediately after their deaths. The "restraint" mentioned may refer to the apostolic authority and teaching which played a crucial role in maintaining doctrinal purity.
Early corruption indeed…while the apostles were still present, and acting as a restraint until the last books of the Christian Scriptures were penned. (The Revelation and John’s three letters)
This implies that the truth would never be destroyed by this apostasy…it suggests that it was overpowered for many centuries of the adoption of all manner of beliefs and practices that had no place in the Christian faith.
God allowed this to happen….and foretold it….what excuse do we have for failing to acknowledge it?

After centuries of the unimaginable corruption, we see a glimmer of ight at the end of the tunnel in the actions of one man…a Catholic priest, who knew the Scriptures because he had access to them, when the people did not. He changed the course of Christian history, and at the very least broke the power of the Roman church and gave the Bible back to the people, allowing translations into a few different languages so that God’s word could be read by the common people, in their own tongue…..something the Catholic church forbade…..and we know why….their power trip was over. Only the completely indoctrinated would stick to their errors.

But, this “reformation” was not the light that many assumed it to be…..what it did, simply broke Christianity up into many different sects all claiming to teach ”the truth”…..yet, how many versions of the truth can there be? All it did was confuse all the issues….today there are literally thousands of” Christian” churches, yet “Christianity” is dying of starvation…..people are being fed the same empty, dreary lies that where formulated by the ’mother church’ centuries ago. The ‘daughters’ took their mother’s dirty laundry with them and this became the disunited rabble that is “Christendom”.
Amid all the chaos of this dying system on earth, as the devil is also in his “last days”, the truth shines like a beacon of hope to those who have the privilege of its revelation. That truth is not found in a disunited muddle of beliefs that have no scriptural support….only God can reveal it. (John 6:44; 65) The devil cannot prevent it.

This is history repeating….the same thing happened with the Jewish leadership….their position, power and education elevated them above the common people who were at their mercy and judgment. They too branched off off into sects, and corrupted the word of God to maintain their position. Jesus said that they made their charges subjects of Gehenna, more so than themselves….(Matt 23:13-15)
 
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Aunty Jane

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3. The Continuity of the Faith:
Despite the challenges faced by the early church, the Scriptures promise that the gates of hell will not prevail against it (Matthew 16:18, Lexham Bible). This suggests a divine preservation of the church's core teachings and practices, despite the infiltration of false teachings and corrupting influences.
It does…..but not in the church’s leadership. Brave individuals would surface down through the centuries only to be ostracized and persecuted by “the church” as heretics…..again history repeats….Jesus told his disciples that this would take place. (John 18:18-21; Matt 5:10-12)

The truth would survive through all manner of corruption and persecution, but satan’s agents would never destroy their message as individuals or as persecuted groups. In this “time of the end” God said he would cleanse, whiten and refine his people…those not swallowed up by Christendom’s lies. (Daniel 12: 4, 9-10)
Roman Catholicism and Sun Worship
1. Historical Developments:
It is accurate that later Roman Catholicism incorporated various cultural elements, some of which had origins in pagan practices. However, the New Testament itself provides no explicit evidence that the early Christian observance of Sunday was intended to honor the Sun god.
Do you understand what deception is, Johann? There is no early Christian observance of “Sunday worship” except in the apostasy that was to be in evidence until “the time of the end”…..only then would God re-establish true worship, and his people will have obeyed his instruction to removed themselves from “Babylon the great”. (Rev 18:4-5) If people have not identified who she is, they will not have removed themselves....sealing their own fate.
2. Distinction of Christian Worship:
The focus of Christian worship on Sunday is primarily to commemorate the resurrection of Christ and the new creation inaugurated by His victory over death. This is seen in Colossians 2:16-17 (Lexham Bible), which highlights that such observances are shadows of what was to come, with Christ being the substance.
We are not instructed to commemorate Christ’s resurrection…only his death, which is what releases us from the grip of sin and death and facilitates the forgiveness of our sins even now.
Christ returned to his Father in heaven because his resurrection “in the spirit”, was necessary for him to go back to where he originated…to “sit at God’s right hand” until “God places all his enemies as a stool for his feet”. (Psalm 110:1-2) Yet even in heaven Jesus calls his Father ”my God”. (Rev 3:12)

All instruction has to come from Scripture….we are not at liberty to add anything, and we are not at liberty to neglect or subtract anything either….most of what Christendom practices and believe is not found in the Bible…or has been read into ambiguous verses to justify doing what God tells us not to do…..and that is to fuse Christian worship with false worship. (2 Cor 6:14-18)
In conclusion, while there are historical concerns regarding the integration of pagan elements into Christianity, the New Testament provides a basis for the observance of the Lord's Day separate from sun worship. The early church's practices, as reflected in Scripture, demonstrate a distinct focus on the resurrection of Christ rather than pagan deities.
I’m afraid you have justified doing what God never sanctioned in his word.

”The Lord’s day” is not Sunday and never was. “Early church practices” from the second century onward demonstrate a slow and gradual progression into the foretold apostasy…..and history attests to that in every way.

Church members may not have believed that Sunday worship was a leftover from Roman devotion to Sol Invicti on his special day…..and the celebration of Christmas is also centered around sun worship.
The Catholic Encyclopedia (Vol. 3, page 727) states regarding this celebration….. “The well-known solar feast however, Natalis Invicti [Birthday of the Unconquered] has a strong claim on the responsibility for our December date.”
And according to the Encyclopedia Americana, the church of Rome arranged for the celebration of Jesus’ birthday on December 25 “on the day of the old Roman [pagan] feast of the birth of Sol, as no certain knowledge of the day of Christ’s birth existed”. (Vol. 6, page 623, 1942 ed.)

Do Christendom’s adherents know this? Do they care, given the commercial ’greed fest’ that this celebration has become these last days? The cry goes out to “put Christ back into Christmas”….but the truth is, he was never there in the first place.
The ignorance about these celebrations was cultivated, as are the doctrines of “the church” to this day, practiced under many different banners, all claiming to teach what Christ did…..but none of them do.
 
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Aunty Jane

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Your antagonism for your own culture is noted.
It’s not my culture Wrangler…..I never felt at home in the confines of Christendom. There were too many inconsistencies and no religion I investigated after I walked out of the hopelessly divided church system had any answers that came from Scripture…..I don’t feel antagonism for what Christianity has become…I feel disgust TBH….and I feel for God and his Christ who have to gaze upon what humans have done to this earth and to God’s worship….and to each other.
Christianity spread into existing cultures and adopted customs as their own.
And that is where they ignored God’s word and did what they wanted….God actually said don’t do that. (2 Cor 6:14-18)
We have no license to adopt anything from pagan cultures or customs as if we can somehow make “a silk purse out of a sow’s ear”…..it’s the very thing that kept derailing Israel…they kept adopting false religious practices and wondered why God punished them.
We've talked about this before. Just because cultural traditions pre-date Christianity does not mean Christians cannot adopt them and make them their own.
We have, and it’s very apparent that you are stuck where you are in accepting what God rejects…..the Bible is clear that false religious practices are not acceptable to God, just because you change the name to something resembling “Christianity”…..that’s your choice mate…not much I can do about that.
Jesus will let you know in due time. You don’t have to listen to me…although I wish you would….
There is no joy in your theology.
There is more joy than you could possibly know (John 13:34-35)…..what joy is there in yours, when it promises so much but will end so badly? What excuses will you have to make for adopting all those ‘cultural’ (false religious) things that God hates, after you have have magically turned them into “Christian” things? You think he approves? Think again. Look what happened to Israel when they tried that on…..
How I wish you had eyes to see….
 

Grailhunter

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Anyone that tells you that the Catholics or the Ecumenical Councils or Emperor Constantine had anything to do with establishing the Lord’s Day of Sunday worship is lying to you! Or completely ignorant of Christian history, the Lord’s Day was established by the Gentile Christians before the end of the first century.

Early Christian writings support the Sunday observance of the Lord’s Day and denounce those Christians observing the Saturday Jewish Sabbath.

Do not let people dump lies in your lap! Go look it up for yourself.
When people are lying to you, they are not going to tell you to go look it up for yourself!

If you notice those supporting or suggesting Christians should worship on the Saturday Jewish Sabbath are quoting Jewish Old Testament Scriptures….Old Covenant! We are not Jews nor do we sell our daughters as sex slaves on the Sabbath.
 

RedFan

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Anyone that tells you that the Catholics or the Ecumenical Councils or Emperor Constantine had anything to do with establishing the Lord’s Day of Sunday worship is lying to you! Or completely ignorant of Christian history, the Lord’s Day was established by the Gentile Christians before the end of the first century.

Early Christian writings support the Sunday observance of the Lord’s Day and denounce those Christians observing the Saturday Jewish Sabbath.
While you and I may differ by a few decades, I think I said essentially this in Post #52. Assigning Constantine "nothing to do" with establishing Sunday as the Lord's Day is a bit strong, but your chronological point is well taken.

Still, I have to agree with Aunty Jane that Sun God symbolism has infiltrated a bit. She ties that to the Lord's Day origin, while I think it is a later adornment.

But she and I were having a civil discussion on it, not calling each other "liar," I'm convinced your use of the word is too harsh here. A "Liar" KNOWS he or she is spewing untruths. Unless you are a mind reader, your accusation is faulty.
 
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Wrangler

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Christianity spread into existing cultures and adopted customs as their own.

And that is where they ignored God’s word and did what they wanted….God actually said don’t do that. (2 Cor 6:14-18)
"Partnering" means something other than recognizing the culture that you are in. Gross misapplication of Scripture.
 

Wrangler

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We have, and it’s very apparent that you are stuck where you are in accepting what God rejects…..the Bible is clear that false religious practices are not acceptable to God
You're ridiculous! It is NO kind of religious practice to recognize the language in the culture I'm from uses a certain word for the 1st day of the week!
 

Wrangler

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And according to the Encyclopedia Americana, the church of Rome arranged for the celebration of Jesus’ birthday on December 25 “on the day of the old Roman [pagan] feast of the birth of Sol, as no certain knowledge of the day of Christ’s birth existed”. (Vol. 6, page 623, 1942 ed.)

Do Christendom’s adherents know this? Do they care, given the commercial ’greed fest’ that this celebration has become these last days? The cry goes out to “put Christ back into Christmas”….but the truth is, he was never there in the first place.
While you and I love history must don't know and don't care. What matters to them is now and now Christ was always part of Christmas - even though that date was originally celebrated for a different reason from the culture the establishment of Christmas came from.

You joylessly write as though to be a Christian means to be divorced from the culture around you. It is a great joy for kids to get gifts on Christmas and candy on Easter. Somehow, you rationalize this joyous celebration is sinful. This is not of the Spirit. Gal 5:18-21.
 
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