Carnal Counseling Vs. Spiritual Counseling

[afaithfulone4u]

The difference between the two is this:

Carnal counseling is where someone lays on a couch and tells of all their woes to one who is paid to listen to them, just to get it off their chest but nothing changes.

Spiritual counseling is where someone lays on a couch and opens their Bible and lets the Word and Spirit of God speak to them things that gives them sound thinking to bring healing to their soul.. free of charge, just for the asking(prayer).

 

[aspen]

counseling is not 'confessing traumatic events' to a conselor! if that has been your experience, you have experienced terrible counseling. Good counseling identifies patterns of trauma and maladapted responses in a client and then teaches new was to deal with emotional pain in the future. Counselors that expect you to repeat and wallow in past trauma every time they see you are not helping - they are re-traumatizing you!

 

[afaithfulone4u]

Thank you for the advice aspen2, but I have never sought a man's counsel (not meaning someones opinion), so I was not speaking from a personal experience but a spiritual understanding.
I am merely stating God's counsel is totally opposite of the sinful man's for it is perfect and free to who so ever will ask, where as man is always seeking payment and just patronizing you to keep the income coming back, because they want you to pay upfront before they will listen and a godly counselor, should you choose to listen to a minister of the Word instead of seeking God for yourself, will take an offering if you will to add to your account in the heavenly realm should you decide the counseling to be worthy of your treasures that you were keeping for your fleshly needs. Not meaning you in particular but who ever it applies to : )

Gal 6:6-9
6 Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
7 Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
KJV

blessings

 

[Niki]

What about Biblical counselling? That work for you?

 

[aspen]

I agree that effective counseling has a spiritual component, but that fact does not mean that Christian counselors are automatically more effective than secular counselors. In fact, I only know of one Christian counselor that is competent. On the contrary, I know of many secular counselors that understand and administer counseling that changes lives. One of the problems with Christian counseling is that counselors often force people into a narrow mindset promoted by their own understanding of the Bible which is more like 1st century Roman/Jewish culture rather than Christianity.

I am a counselor and I am a Christian, but I do not offer doctrine focused Christian counseling. Instead, my goal is to listen to my client, identify outdated skills and teach them new skills to apply in their lives. I believe effective adults must learn to delay gratification, regulate emotions, suspend disbelief, and become more flexible in their cognitive abilities in order to love and learn and function in life effectively. Of course, God is the one who sanctifies a person to love as we were created to love, but effective counseling can point people in the right direction.

It in my hope for all of my clients that they will learn how to receive love and then how to love others.

 

[afaithfulone4u]

So am I hearing you correctly, that you trust secular man's understanding more than the Word of God taught by the Holy Spirit which is what I am talking about in my OP?


Isa 9:6-7
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counseller, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.
KJV
Isa 40:13-14
13 Who hath directed the Spirit of the LORD, or being his counseller hath taught him?
14 With whom took he counsel, and who instructed him, and taught him in the path of judgment, and taught him knowledge, and shewed to him the way of understanding?
KJV

What about Biblical counselling? That work for you?

Did you not understand that this is what I am comparing? Spiritual from the Bible compared to man's~

 

[aspen]

i am speaking from experience. i am also saying that calling yourself a Christian counselor does not mean you are a competent counselor. if you want to reframe what i am saying as a ringing endorsement of secular counseling over Christian counseling, you are mistaken.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

i am speaking from experience. i am also saying that calling yourself a Christian counselor does not mean you are a competent counselor. if you want to reframe what i am saying as a ringing endorsement of secular counseling over Christian counseling, you are mistaken.

From what I gather secular counseling exchanges one lie for another. Whether that be forgive someone for your own sake or come into the 21st century and you will feel better. Most common sense counseling comes from family, friends and neighbours.

This almost but not completely makes the clinical counselor, redundant. Unless there be a biological basis of behavior. Even so, Christ is well able to undertake their weakness and uphold them plus the bible instructs their mind, so as to be properly(mentally) focused.

 

[aspen]

if that is your idea of counseling JB, you didn't read my post.
BTW if friends and family are so effective why is the counseling field so large, I am counselor and business is booming

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

if that is your idea of counseling JB, you didn't read my post.
BTW if friends and family are so effective why is the counseling field so large, I am counselor and business is booming

Dumb down society and play with it's values and purport that truth is relative, which destroys headship in families may go somewhat to answering your second question.

Again, in an independant and cold society, trust may have eroded to such a degree that these people would prefer to trust a stranger than those they know.

It's of a truth that the amount of so-called counselors that have arisen in the last century is proportional to the people's rejection of GOD in their knowledge. Indeed, over the last 400 years the idea that GOD is sovereign and might I say even existed has only escalated in the past century, to wit, that man now states GOD is a myth and men has taken his place, as sovereign.

The degree to which man forsakes GOD's word and his natural order to that degree is he/she insane or schizophrenic.

 

[aspen]

hmm...I see the reverse - I think the church has dropped the ball and now people are having to go outside of it in order to learn the skills necessary to become fully functioning, healthy adults. Good counseling is all about taking responsibility for your actions.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

hmm...I see the reverse - I think the church has dropped the ball and now people are having to go outside of it in order to learn the skills necessary to become fully functioning, healthy adults. Good counseling is all about taking responsibility for your actions.

I agree that part of good counselling is instructing the client on assuming responsibility for oneself. The other essential ingredient is TRUTH. To which this world is in short supply of.

I think also apart from assuming responsibility for ones actions and thoughts, is instructing how to behave responsibly to others at the same time. Again, where one sources his advice from may indeed determine the outcome of what it actually means to be responsible and act responsibly towards one's neighbour etc.

 

[Niki]

Niki, on 18 Jun 2013 - 4:10 PM, said:

What about Biblical counselling? That work for you?

Did you not understand that this is what I am comparing? Spiritual from the Bible compared to man's~

I understand a whole lot more than you think I do. Bad use of the word carnal by the way.

Counselling can be very effective. Narrow minds refuse to accept that God cannot and does not use any means He wants to achieve His ends and to help
people find Him.

Downing every single thing that doesn't have a verse of scripture attached to it begins to resemble a witch hunt IMO.

No, not going to defend the above. Not worth it when someone thinks they have a handle on everyone and everything because they interpret through
their own bias.

Respectfully, sincerely but not going to argue. Thanks

 

[101G]

sometime your Carnal life can teach your spiritual life some things.

 

[7angels]

getting the training necessary to recognize signs of depression, suicide, body language, and ect are valuable skills. it allows you to recognize people who are struggling in areas and gives you a basis to be able to help them. i know people with degrees who i wouldn't trust at all and i also know people with no degrees at at but a very trustworthy, sensitive people who listen to us and have done more for people then many of those with degrees. it matters little whether we have carnal counciling or spiritual counciling as long as we remember who it is that has the answer to all problems and we don't just teach but also live what they preach. for example if i wanted to learn how to make money who would i go too a poor person who cannot manage money or a millionaire who went from poor to rich.

God bless

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

getting the training necessary to recognize signs of depression, suicide, body language, and ect are valuable skills. it allows you to recognize people who are struggling in areas and gives you a basis to be able to help them. i know people with degrees who i wouldn't trust at all and i also know people with no degrees at at but a very trustworthy, sensitive people who listen to us and have done more for people then many of those with degrees. it matters little whether we have carnal counciling or spiritual counciling as long as we remember who it is that has the answer to all problems and we don't just teach but also live what they preach. for example if i wanted to learn how to make money who would i go too a poor person who cannot manage money or a millionaire who went from poor to rich.

God bless

That would depend if through their ignorance and indolence they made themselves poor, are are not subject to the sovereignty of God in this matter. I've know of and know people who are filthy rich and some comes from a silver spoon in the mouth and some by niche market and most through ripping off and manipulating others.

Remember the POOR wise man who delivered a city from it's enemies and was not remembered any more? Ecclesiastes 9:14-18

 

[biggandyy]

The only difference I have found from numerous encounters with both secular and "christian" counselors is the "christian" counselor will replace the names like Jung, Skinner, Freud, and Rorschach with Jesus, God, and Holy Spirit. The "christian" counselor uses the same techniques, methodology, and even training of secular counselors. They just change the name to cater to a different audience. It's all packaging and marketing but the product is still flawed and without merit spiritually.

 

[JB_Reformed Baptist]

The only difference I have found from numerous encounters with both secular and "christian" counselors is the "christian" counselor will replace the names like Jung, Skinner, Freud, and Rorschach with Jesus, God, and Holy Spirit. The "christian" counselor uses the same techniques, methodology, and even training of secular counselors. They just change the name to cater to a different audience. It's all packaging and marketing but the product is still flawed and without merit spiritually.

Absolutely agree. From first hand knowledge its really psychology rapped up in christian garb. One chap I know is a Psychologist who's a medical doctor as well, and he's a christian therefore when he counsels it's christian counseling, because he's a christian. {sarcasm off}

 

[afaithfulone4u]

Ps 1:1-2
1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly, nor standeth in the way of sinners, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.
2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD; and in his law doth he meditate day and night.
KJV

Prov 14:12
12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.
KJV
Rom 8:5-8
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
KJV

What is the definition of COUNSEL?
Main Entry:coun*sel*or
Variantr coun*sel*lor \*ka*n-s*-l*r\
Function:noun
1 : ADVISER
2 : LAWYER
3 : one who has supervisory duties at a summer camp

So if carnal counseling is only according to what man knows, man's wisdom is foolishness to God. This is not to say that an ungodly man can not know that divorce is not good, or that some one has a mental illness that needs healing. The issue is the counseling that one who does not know God's perfect will being HIS WORD given by His Spirit to those who adhere to God's Word for correction and reproof, can be in error and in fact is when compared to God's.

But again my op is being misunderstood. I am showing the difference between man's way and God's way of counseling.

1.Man says: If you have enough money and you are willing to give me some money Upfront, I will listen to all your woes so that you can be relieved and feel better once you leave my office.

God's says sit silently, be still and know that I am God and LISTEN TO ME AND LEARN so that I can show you what you must do to change your way of life and raise you up to have a sound mind follow my Son, follow my Word to a new way of life.. and if you feel it worthy.. leave an offering according to your hearts value upon it for those who feed you FREELY the Word for your soul for TRUE HEALING AND HEALTH AND LIFE MORE ABUNDANTLY. NO DEBT but to love one another by showing them the truth that you received of ME so they too can come out of the life of HEAT AND TORMENT NIGHT AND DAY to lye down in green pastures.... Psalm 23!

 

[biggandyy]

You claim your OP is misunderstood AGAIN. Let me ask the obvious question; "is the fault of understanding our fault or are you unclear in your communication?"