Calvinism
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Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Jesus has taken the punishment for all of the sins of the elect, past, present ,and future
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
No....He drew all kinds of men, not the Jew only;
50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.
51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;
52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
When Jesus died on the cross how did He draw every single person who ever lived to himself?
Many are already in the grave.
People lived and died all around the world as Jesus was on the cross....how do you believe they were drawn?
John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
You are changing the passage by replacing "all" with "all kinds of." That seem inappropriate to me.
Did he die only for the elect?
John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
John 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
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By lighting every man that comes into the world. By having the Gospel preached to every living creature; and Paul said that was done.
Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
They heard the message. Jesus went to both Paradise and Gehinnom. Some who slept came out of their graves.
Jesus has many ways to work. One is using men to preach the Gospel. Jesus also imparts light to everyone born; and the Gospel is also preached from Heaven.
Revelation 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Jesus can save people who never read a Bible or attended a a church. Some people are his servants and will be surprised when he tells them so.
Matthew 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
Why is it you can never quote a Scripture with your statements?
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
"Giuliano,
The context indicates who is in view.
You are suggesting an impossible idea.
What do you mean by all men?
All men since Adam was created?
All men alive in the first century?
All men after the cross?
Or...All men...Jew or gentile?
Answer this question if you would. As Jesus is on the cross millions of people are living in sin and rebellion to God. There was no radio, No TV.
How did they hear the saving truth about Jesus? In what way were they drawn?
The light of nature and a God-given conscience let men know they are without excuse, but nowhere is there any indication that knowing there is a God is sufficient to bring salvation.
What would be the basis of such salvation as the person has thousands of unconfessed sins? Some form of works???
Why not believe what scripture says?
1 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
It does not say he took on Him the seed of Adam, does it? It says the seed of Abraham!
The Father gives a multitude to the Son in what we call the Covenant of redemption.The Son comes and saves them from their sins on the cross. The Spirit draws each and everyone who He intends to save...both Jews and gentiles.
The context indicates who is in view.
You are suggesting an impossible idea.
What do you mean by all men?
All men since Adam was created?
All men alive in the first century?
All men after the cross?
Or...All men...Jew or gentile?
Answer this question if you would. As Jesus is on the cross millions of people are living in sin and rebellion to God. There was no radio, No TV.
How did they hear the saving truth about Jesus? In what way were they drawn?
The light of nature and a God-given conscience let men know they are without excuse, but nowhere is there any indication that knowing there is a God is sufficient to bring salvation.
What would be the basis of such salvation as the person has thousands of unconfessed sins? Some form of works???
Why not believe what scripture says?
1 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.
13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
It does not say he took on Him the seed of Adam, does it? It says the seed of Abraham!
The Father gives a multitude to the Son in what we call the Covenant of redemption.The Son comes and saves them from their sins on the cross. The Spirit draws each and everyone who He intends to save...both Jews and gentiles.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
CharismaticLady,
I quote scripture when I believe a person wants to examine scripture.
You are in combat mode right now. To suggest John M is satanic, is ludicrous.
You are convinced that sign gifts are to be a daily occurrence because you have been taught that. It is a wrong belief.
When God used Moses and parted the red sea drowning the Egyptians...was that repeated every day?
Do you know anyone who could stand in a lion's den, or not be burned in a fire?
Miracles , signs, and wonders done by the apostles had a specific purpose , but were foundational
Eph2:20
I quote scripture when I believe a person wants to examine scripture.
You are in combat mode right now. To suggest John M is satanic, is ludicrous.
You are convinced that sign gifts are to be a daily occurrence because you have been taught that. It is a wrong belief.
When God used Moses and parted the red sea drowning the Egyptians...was that repeated every day?
Do you know anyone who could stand in a lion's den, or not be burned in a fire?
Miracles , signs, and wonders done by the apostles had a specific purpose , but were foundational
Eph2:20
That has been a problem for many. God does not condemn the righteous (so He could not have punished Christ instead of us) and He does not justify the wicked (so how are we justified).
I believe our redemption is the righteousness of God manifested apart from the law. We must be born again, made new creations in Christ. We die to sin and are made alive in Him, a new life. There is, in Christ, no condemnation. And God is just and Justifier without contradiction.
I read all to mean all. Past, present, and future. Nothing is impossible with God. You appear to be reading it to suit a theory you have. I figure God is Love, so He loves everyone He created.
My posts answered that. You must not have read them. Is it even worth continuing the discussion when you aren't reading what I write and not responding to the Bible passages I give? It seems to me you want to see only what agrees with you and not anything that doesn't.
Huh? Why do you think Jesus called himself Son of Man? The expression in Hebrew is "Ben Adam." And why do think that would be?
You have still dodged my question. At this point, maybe I should give up trying to get straight answers from you. You have a belief system that you think makes you happy and you don't want to question them. You are willing to "edit" the Bible if need be. I tell you God is Love and never created anyone knowing in advance that person could not be saved. You seem to think God who will save you, and that makes you one of the "lucky" ones. If He doesn't care about other people, too bad for them.
He doesn't say he personally preached it himself to every living creature. He said it had been done.
You don't appear to believe the Bible in my opinion. Or perhaps you never heard an angel from Heaven. Some people do. Literally.
Heb 13:2 Be not forgetful to entertain strangers: for thereby some have entertained angels unawares.
[quote[Jesus can save people who never read a Bible or attended a a church. Some people are his servants and will be surprised when he tells them so.
This is correct.He can and will save all the Father has given Him. Not one more, not one less[/QUOTE]
He already saved all those the Father had given him to help him in his life on this earth.
John 17:6 I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they have known that all things whatsoever thou hast given me are of thee.
8 For I have given unto them the words which thou gavest me; and they have received them, and have known surely that I came out from thee, and they have believed that thou didst send me.
They were chosen for that time; and Jesus found them all and called them all. That does not necessarily include you or me. The work was not yet done. His disciples carried on the work. Jesus wasn't going to do everything in person.
18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.
19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.
20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
As it says, "I will make the darkness light." We must be changed.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
"Giuliano,
you are trying to gloss over this.we will look at it a bit more.
I read your posts which did not answer at all. let me make it clearer for you.
here is what I asked specifically;
Answer this question if you would. As Jesus is on the cross millions of people are living in sin and rebellion to God. There was no radio, No TV.
How did they hear the saving truth about Jesus?
In what way were they drawn?
The light of nature and a God-given conscience let men know they are without excuse, but nowhere is there any indication that knowing there is a God is sufficient to bring salvation.
What would be the basis of such salvation as the person has thousands of unconfessed sins? Some form of works???
the things you are saying toward me,seems to be exactly what you are doing.
Your unbiblical comment calls into question God's perfect wisdom and decree. It is God who saves. it is God who has planned who will be saved.
you are trying to gloss over this.we will look at it a bit more.
I read your posts which did not answer at all. let me make it clearer for you.
here is what I asked specifically;
Answer this question if you would. As Jesus is on the cross millions of people are living in sin and rebellion to God. There was no radio, No TV.
How did they hear the saving truth about Jesus?
In what way were they drawn?
The light of nature and a God-given conscience let men know they are without excuse, but nowhere is there any indication that knowing there is a God is sufficient to bring salvation.
What would be the basis of such salvation as the person has thousands of unconfessed sins? Some form of works???
I did read your posts...so you can tone that down. I am asking you to clarify what you are saying before I address your out of context mis-use of the verses
That is not addressed in Hebrews 2, he took upon Himself the seed of Abraham. Why avoid the text, when you can read it and learn instead
.
the things you are saying toward me,seems to be exactly what you are doing.
Your unbiblical comment calls into question God's perfect wisdom and decree. It is God who saves. it is God who has planned who will be saved.
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
Giuliano,
You have no basis for this idea. people were not travelling worldwide then, no one went to those in other countries.
many in our day have never heard about Jesus or the gospel. You do not understand the verse.
You have no basis for this idea. people were not travelling worldwide then, no one went to those in other countries.
many in our day have never heard about Jesus or the gospel. You do not understand the verse.
No one is hearing angels from heaven unless it is Joseph Smith hearing from the demon spirit moroni
I think this is my day for stopping conversations. I've no desire to try to continue this with you.
5. This corruption of nature, during this life, doth remain in those that are regenerated [1]; and although it be, through Christ, pardoned, and mortified; yet both itself, and all the motions thereof, are truly and properly sin. [2]
[1]
~ Proverbs 20:9
~ Ecclesiastes 7:20
~ Romans 7:14
~ Romans 7:17-18
~ Romans 7: 21-23
[2]
~ Romans 7:7-8
~ Romans 7:25
~ Galatians 5:17
Yes, I do commit willful and daily sins, as does everyone. And yes, Christ died for any and all sins that I have committed and ever will commit. And no, this does not mean we can sin all we want; Paul deals with this later on in Romans.
Yes, I have read Romans 6 and 8, and 1 John 3, but with the way you seem to think that you cannot sin anymore, it makes me wonder if you've ever read the chapter between the 2, Romans 7...
A question; since you don't sin anymore, but great apostles the like of Paul and Peter did, are you saying that you have reached a higher spiritual plane than they are on? Because they sinned; Paul calls Peter out on it!
If you would like to deal with Romans 6 and 8 and 1 John, please tell me what you think they say.
It's called the Acme of Perfection and only one Christian has reached that.:cool:
Truth! Only Christ has attained perfection on earth! It also begs the question; can these now sinless people then intercede for us with the Father?
Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
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