Calvinism

[CharismaticLady]

Bye for now all!

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

John Caldwell,

The ones that I have seen on this forum are indoctrinated into Calvinism. They redefine words and re-write history to support their religious philosophy. Calvinism is their religion. Calvinism is their gospel. They do not understand Calvinism.

Calvinism as a gospel is another gospel than that of Jesus Christ. Calvinism as a gospel is a false and powerless gospel that can only blind people to the Truth and to the true gospel of Christ.

Spurgeon preached Calvinism. You are suggesting he preached another gospel? yeah sure.
Your hatred for the Calvinist brothers has come out in the open. You try and cover it but it oozes forth,

Extra-biblical foundational belief, liberal hermeneutics, “another” gospel, and a denial that Scripture itself states the divinity of Christ.

Satan himself could not accuse us anymore than this...repent John.

 

[Steve Owen]

I did not deal with Scripture to your satisfaction. But I did deal with the passages.

I don't think you'll find you did.

They mean EXACTLY what they say. No more, no less.

Well at least we can agree with that. :)

I do not mean "tradition" by your past but by "Reformed Tradition". You have adopted a tradition. I know, not the queens [sic] English .

If you mean that I found the Doctrines of Grace through my study of the Bible, then you are quite correct.

What you've added to Scripture are those things that you cannot point out in the text of Scripture itself. As I challenged @David Taylor , print out a verse and put in bold where the text states that God punished Jesus instead of punishing us. NOT a passage that you can tell us what it means - just the verse and put in bold the words without commentary or your explanation.

We've been through this silly game before. You know perfectly well that you cannot find a single text stating that God is a Trinity. It is Satan himself who tries to mislead by quoting a single verse. The truth of Scripture is not determined by "It is written" (Matthew 4:6), but by "It is written again" (Matthew 4:7).

Here is the chain of texts that I used to show the truth of Penal Substitution way back in post #380:

'Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows.........' Here at once is substitution. He has made our burdens His (Matthew 8:16-17; Revelation 21:4).
'.......Yet we [emphatic pronoun] esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God and afflicted......' And in this the Bible does not say we were wrong. Where we were wrong is in our understanding of why He was stricken.
'.......But He was wounded for our iniquities, the chastisement for our peace was upon Him......' we can stop there, I think. Chastisement is a penalty* and He suffered it instead of us. that is penal substitution. But who is responsible for this chastisement?
Two questions:
1. Who transferred our iniquities to Christ? 'And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all' (v.6).
2. Who punished Him? 'Yet is pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief' (v.10). It is God the Father who has 'chastised' the Son. To chastise someone is to punish him*. And God the Father has punished Christ in the place of us. Penal Substitution. the case is proved.

*If you think it isn't, read Deuteronomy 11:2-4 and Jeremiah 30:14, where exactly the same word (Heb. Musar) is used as in Isaiah 53:6.

Like @David Taylor you'll have to admit that your idea of"good theology" does not work that way. The actual text does not state what you believe. There are no verses that state God punished Jesus instead of punishing us.

The actual text states exactly what I believe. Just set aside your presuppositions (or 'traditions' if you prefer) and read the text.

 

[John Caldwell]

I don't think you'll find you did.
Well at least we can agree with that. :)

If you mean that I found the Doctrines of Grace through my study of the Bible, then you are quite correct.

We've been through this silly game before. You know perfectly well that you cannot find a single text stating that God is a Trinity. It is Satan himself who tries to mislead by quoting a single verse. The truth of Scripture is not determined by "It is written" (Matthew 4:6), but by "It is written again" (Matthew 4:7).

Here is the chain of texts that I used to show the truth of Penal Substitution way back in post #380:

'Surely He has borne our griefs and carried our sorrows.........' Here at once is substitution. He has made our burdens His (Matthew 8:16-17; Revelation 21:4).
'.......Yet we [emphatic pronoun] esteemed Him stricken, smitten by God and afflicted......' And in this the Bible does not say we were wrong. Where we were wrong is in our understanding of why He was stricken.
'.......But He was wounded for our iniquities, the chastisement for our peace was upon Him......' we can stop there, I think. Chastisement is a penalty* and He suffered it instead of us. that is penal substitution. But who is responsible for this chastisement?
Two questions:
1. Who transferred our iniquities to Christ? 'And the LORD has laid on Him the iniquity of us all' (v.6).
2. Who punished Him? 'Yet is pleased the LORD to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief' (v.10). It is God the Father who has 'chastised' the Son. To chastise someone is to punish him*. And God the Father has punished Christ in the place of us. Penal Substitution. the case is proved.

*If you think it isn't, read Deuteronomy 11:2-4 and Jeremiah 30:14, where exactly the same word (Heb. Musar) is used as in Isaiah 53:6.

The actual text states exactly what I believe. Just set aside your presuppositions (or 'traditions' if you prefer) and read the text.

Are you asking me to address the texts or are you here to belittle me, insult me, and slander me?

I am asking because if you are being honest I will gladly respond with my view of those passages. If you are here merely to slander those who believe differently I am not willing to seriously engage your post.

Please let me know, Steve, and I'll respond accordingly.

 

[Steve Owen]

Spurgeon preached Calvinism.

'Learn ye, my friends to look upon God as being as severe in His justice as if He were not loving, and yet as loving as if He were not severe. His love does not diminish His justice, nor does His justice, in the least degree, make warfare on His love. The two are sweetly linked together in the atonement of Christ' C. H. Spurgeon.

 

[Steve Owen]

Are you asking me to address the texts or are you here to belittle me, insult me, and slander me?

I am asking because if you are being honest I will gladly respond with my view of those passages. If you are here merely to slander those who believe differently I am not willing to seriously engage your post.

Please let me know, Steve, and I'll respond accordingly.

I am asking you to address the texts. If you can do so without being snide and insulting, and telling me what I believe when you know sweet nothing about me, that will be great. I am not here to get in great running battles and insults, but to discuss the Scriptures. If there are no insults or snide comments in your next post, there will be none in mine.

 

[John Caldwell]

I am asking you to address the texts. If you can do so without being snide and insulting, and telling me what I believe when you know sweet nothing about me, that will be great. I am not here to get in great running battles and insults, but to discuss the Scriptures. If there are no insults or snide comments in your next post, there will be none in mine.

Matthew 4:3-4 And the tempter came and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread." But He answered and said, "It is written, 'MAN SHALL NOT LIVE ON BREAD ALONE, BUT ON EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDS OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD.'"

I believe that we are dependent on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (what is written).

In terms of doctrine, I do believe that we need to use passages and not form a doctrine on a single verse. But at the same time, we cannot merely dismiss God’s word simply because it is not repeated. My insistence is that our belief (when it comes to essential doctrine) should be written at least once. We should not only believe what Scripture states but we should give it the same emphasis as does Scripture.

In regards to Isaiah 53 I believe that Jesus was despised and forsaken of men, a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief; He was despised, and we did not esteem Him. I believe Jesus bore our griefs He Himself bore, and carried our sorrows BUT we esteemed him stricken, smitten of God and afflicted. I believe Jesus was pierced through for our transgressions and crushed for our iniquities. I believe that the chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, And by His stripes we are healed. I believe that God has caused the iniquity of us all to fall on Christ.

What I do not believe is that God punished Jesus instead of punishing us. That is not written in the passage and I do not believe I have the authority to insert it into the text (I also believe the passage itself sufficient and logical without those types of additions).

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

Are you asking me to address the texts or are you here to belittle me, insult me, and slander me?

I am asking because if you are being honest I will gladly respond with my view of those passages. If you are here merely to slander those who believe differently I am not willing to seriously engage your post.

Please let me know, Steve, and I'll respond accordingly.

You just accused all of us of following another gospel because you cannot answer us. {in the John Caldwell thread]
You suggest things we do not believe.
You do this all the time.
Forrest, and Angelina...do you see this?

 

[John Caldwell]

You just accused all of us of following another gospel because you cannot answer us. {in the John Caldwell thread]
You suggest things we do not believe.
You do this all the time.
Forrest, and Angelina...do you see this?

That is another thread, but yes. If Calvinism is your gospel then it is another gospel (it certainly is not my gospel nor is it the gospel of Jesus Christ as expressed in Scripture).

I held the same gospel before I was a Calvinist, while I was a Calvinist, and having moved from the philosophy. The gospel I hold is the gospel of Jesus Christ that is held by all believers (Calvinists, non-Calvinists, Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, Presbyterians, Anabaptists....all Christians). It is NOT Calvinism but it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes.

I do not know what position @lforrest or @Angelina holds. But I stand by my statement.

 

[reformed1689]

Are you serious....that is going to take a lot of space. Are you a new Calvinist?

see post #1439

No I am not new to the doctrines of grace. And yes, I am serious.

 

[reformed1689]

Which one do you obey? The flesh or the Spirit?

I find myself in the same position as Paul. I'm sure you do too you just lie about it.

 

[reformed1689]

@David Taylor admits his belief is not actually stated in Scripture

No that is not what I said at all. More lies, more deception from the great serpent.

 

[reformed1689]

I just did. Did that go over your head too?

No actually you didn't. You may think you did but if that seriously was your answer you really don't know what you are talking about.

 

[reformed1689]

So you do not believe that Scripture actually states that Jesus is God??????

Here is one among several:

John 20:28-29 Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!" Jesus *said to him, "Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed."

Nope, you are reading into it. That verse does not say "Jesus is God". You are applying philosphy and extra-biblical material to understand that this says Jesus is God.

Try again. Name one verse, without commentary that states "Jesus is God."

 

[Grailhunter]

You just accused all of us of following another gospel because you cannot answer us. {in the John Caldwell thread]
You suggest things we do not believe.
You do this all the time.
Forrest, and Angelina...do you see this?

Forrest, and Angelina...do you see this?
Do you think that iforest and Angelina do not know what you believe and what you deny and what you lie about?
You think they are stupid?

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

That is another thread, but yes. If Calvinism is your gospel then it is another gospel (it certainly is not my gospel nor is it the gospel of Jesus Christ as expressed in Scripture).

I held the same gospel before I was a Calvinist, while I was a Calvinist, and having moved from the philosophy. The gospel I hold is the gospel of Jesus Christ that is held by all believers (Calvinists, non-Calvinists, Baptists, Methodists, Catholics, Presbyterians, Anabaptists....all Christians). It is NOT Calvinism but it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes.

I do not know what position @lforrest or @Angelina holds. But I stand by my statement.

You are too ignorant to speak for me or anyone else.Your lies are shameful.
Try and get it correct this time,
Calvinism as fully explained by all the scriptures is the Gospel. In 1 corinthians 15.. it says ...ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES, ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES PLURAL.....ALL THE SCRIPTURES...GOT IT

 

[reformed1689]

You are too ignorant to speak for me or anyone else.Your lies are shameful.
Try and get it correct this time,
Calvinism as fully explained by all the scriptures is the Gospel. In 1 corinthians 15.. it says ...ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES, ACCORDING TO THE SCRIPTURES PLURAL.....ALL THE SCRIPTURES...GOT IT

NO NO NO, the great serpent @John Caldwell says you must have a single verse that states explicitly what you believe!

 

[Anthony D'Arienzo]

No that is not what I said at all. More lies, more deception from the great serpent.

HIS SHAMEFUL LYING IS DISGUSTING.

 

[reformed1689]

HIS SHAMEFUL LYING IS DISGUSTING.

Not to mention sinful.

 

[Grailhunter]

No I am not new to the doctrines of grace. And yes, I am serious.

Then you will not only have a disagreement with me but also with the Calvinists on this forum.

 

[Waiting on him]

Romans 9:16

John 1:13 KJV
[13] Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


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