Calvinism
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ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
100% Accurate. Faith equates to obedience not just head knowledge.ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Jas 2:17-20 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
1Jn 3:4 [ESV] Everyone who makes a 'practice of sinning' also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.
Hi ChristRoseFromTheDead and JB,
What do you think it means to walk in the light as He is in the light, and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin?
Do you think John was exaggerating, or does the blood of Jesus Christ cleanse us from ALL SIN?
What do you think it means to walk in the light as He is in the light, and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin?
Do you think John was exaggerating, or does the blood of Jesus Christ cleanse us from ALL SIN?
The blood cleanses us from ALL sin if we walk in the light. The light is the truth; the truth is we are sinners. When we acknowledge our sinfulness we are speaking the truth and dwell in the light. If we deny our sinfulness, we walk in darkness because we are not speaking the truth. Those who deny their sinfulness fear the light, and will not come to the light lest they be exposed. Those who are of the truth come to the light that they may find mercy and be cleansed, and manifest the work of the spirit in their hearts to turn them from sin.dragonfly said:
Thanks for your reply. I think you are talking about the rotting fruit on a tree which has had its root severed by the axe which is laid to in in the Spirit through circumcision of the heart by the faith of Christ; and the sins which are cleansed through walking in the light, are not the kind which proceed out of the old heart, which Jesus famously listed, which defile a man.
You should really study more.Rach said:
And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.
Jonah 3:10 (KJV)
I think your opinion of Father is flawed by your misinterpretation of the scriptures but then I don't believe He has to jump through mine or anyone's hoops. Again I really hope you are blessed with more time with Father.
Ok....number one...if you truly read this to mean God has done evil that he needed to repent of....then there are much bigger problems here than universalism.jiggyfly said:
Number two....the ESV (which I believe to be a faithful translation) says that God 'relented'....which means he forgave the people. Now....of the two versions, which do you think fits God's character better.....that he does evil, or that he is forgiving?
So truly....trying to insult my level of understanding....it just doesn't stack up jiggy, I'm sorry.
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
AMEN! The LIGHT= God's Word. i.e Christ himself. :)ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
LOL! I think what's happening is 'JFly' is marrying two scriptures and thoughts into one. !. The axe at the foot of the bad tree 2. God the father the pruner who disciplines us so we bring forth more fruit. :)ChristRoseFromTheDead said:
Rach said:
LOL! I like your lingalee. :)Rach said:
Hi JB, it was me to whom CRFTD said
Do you agree that Colossian 2:11 uses the past tense for circumcision of the heart?
Did you receive a new heart when your were born again, or don't you believe in a new heart?
Thanks.
That's okay. Let's try this from a different angle?
Do you agree that Colossian 2:11 uses the past tense for circumcision of the heart?
Did you receive a new heart when your were born again, or don't you believe in a new heart?
Thanks.
Scott
You are a devoted disciple and have a heart for God. You must have suffered much in the process of your journey so far. There is however, an error today affecting those who have not bent the knee to Baal and it will prevent them reaching the fullness of the stature of Christ. Satan is always the author of the `gradual`. The shortcomings you speak of are not to be borne waiting for deliverance, they will be overcome the instant you claim the ground in the promised land that is being withheld. Step out in faith that the Lord will cleanse you from unintentional sin and be done with it once and for all so that He can fill the temple. Be ye perfect as He is perfect and nothing less. May God bless you. Oh and only speak words which you can understand.
You are a devoted disciple and have a heart for God. You must have suffered much in the process of your journey so far. There is however, an error today affecting those who have not bent the knee to Baal and it will prevent them reaching the fullness of the stature of Christ. Satan is always the author of the `gradual`. The shortcomings you speak of are not to be borne waiting for deliverance, they will be overcome the instant you claim the ground in the promised land that is being withheld. Step out in faith that the Lord will cleanse you from unintentional sin and be done with it once and for all so that He can fill the temple. Be ye perfect as He is perfect and nothing less. May God bless you. Oh and only speak words which you can understand.
Rach said:
Scratch that I really don't want to engage in discussion on your confusion about Father, I doubt I can teach you anything anyway and I feel no need to defend my beliefs. Hope your blessed with more time with Father, Rach
Hi ChristRoseFromTheDead,
Somewhere amongst all our discussions, you exhorted me to stop talking about the sinfulness of the flesh - which I was not actually talking about at the time, pointing out that our minds are also involved. I have read your statements about acknowledging our sinfulness being an aspect of 'walking in the light', but that is not exactly what the apostle said. He said
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
So I am trying to understand what you think is going on in the new heart, if out of it is not proceeding adultery, fornication, murder, theft, etc? Are you suggesting that there is an on-going sinfulness which springs solely from our physical bodies and our thinking, by our very existence?
In other words, do you believe we are never delivered from the power of sin at a spiritual level, such that our spontaneous behaviour is okay with God?
Or, what do you think is meant here: 'By one offering He has perfected for ever them that are sanctified'? Hebrews 10:14
You said, (right at the top of this page)
Hi JB,
It was me who mentioned the axe and rotten fruit.
The fruit which was growing in the bad tree, having no source of life support, (mortification) now rots. We assist in its demise, ideally.
Amen.
Somewhere amongst all our discussions, you exhorted me to stop talking about the sinfulness of the flesh - which I was not actually talking about at the time, pointing out that our minds are also involved. I have read your statements about acknowledging our sinfulness being an aspect of 'walking in the light', but that is not exactly what the apostle said. He said
1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
So I am trying to understand what you think is going on in the new heart, if out of it is not proceeding adultery, fornication, murder, theft, etc? Are you suggesting that there is an on-going sinfulness which springs solely from our physical bodies and our thinking, by our very existence?
In other words, do you believe we are never delivered from the power of sin at a spiritual level, such that our spontaneous behaviour is okay with God?
Or, what do you think is meant here: 'By one offering He has perfected for ever them that are sanctified'? Hebrews 10:14
You said, (right at the top of this page)
Is there any scriptural or extra-biblical evidence that Hebrews 6:6 was limited in this way?
Hi JB,
It was me who mentioned the axe and rotten fruit.
No. God the Father as 'the pruner' was not in my mind at all. What I meant is, that the tree of the knowledge of good and evil grows in each of us until we receive the axe to the root of it through the death of Christ in our beings, and then it stops being the government under which we serve, because we are grafted into (not only the death of, but also) the life of Christ, through the Holy Spirit, and now bear fruit unto God.
The fruit which was growing in the bad tree, having no source of life support, (mortification) now rots. We assist in its demise, ideally.
There is a sinfulness that permeates our whole being. The body has been defiled by sin. In its current form, it cannot, and never will, enter GOD's presence. It must die. Not because it has or hasn't sinned, but because it has been defiled by sin.dragonfly said:
Regarding 1 John 1:8-10, John doesn't say "if we say we haven't sinned' as he does in verse 10, but he says 'if we say we have no sin'. He is making a distinction between committing sin and having a sin nature. If we say we haven't sinned, we lie; if we say we have no inherent sinfulness, we deceive ourselves. When I sin, I don't possess, or have, sin (as verse 8 implies), but have done something wrong that needs to be repented of (as verse 10 implies). When I acknowledge the sin in my nature, I put it to death so that I don't sin. This is the distinction John is making.
And if the truth is not in us, we are not abiding in the light.
See, this is where the cultlists are skewing the dialectic to try to make it look like that those who believe that inherent sinfulness exists don't have the power to overcome their sin nature, and are living in a state of sinfulness. That's so off base it's laughable. The cross of Christ gives one the power to overcome the sin nature through the spirit and live a holy life.dragonfly said:
We are perfected in the heavenlies in Christ. On earth we are yet imperfect and live in hope and expectation of that perfect life through faith.dragonfly said:
The evidence for my interpretation of Hebrews 6:6 is the context of the book of Hebrews itself, in which the author is exhorting his fellow Hebrews to abide in the more excellent way and not return to the shadows. The book was written to the Hebrews, not us, even though we can greatly benefit from its message.dragonfly said:
JB_Reformed Baptist said:
Ha! Thanks....I've learned a new word!
I'm sorry you feel that way....especially because I don't think it's really a case of 'defending our beliefs' so much as discussing the truth of what scripture tells us. To me it is very, very clear....the bible is telling us things you disagree with. And yes, I know you will not dig into this with me....you've made it quite clear that you don't agree with me and think my understanding and relationship with God is feeble.jiggyfly said:
I suppose when it really comes down to it...forget making a horse drink....without God's help it's impossible to even lead the darn thing to water in the first place.....
Catch you around Jiggy.....
Hi Rex,
This is my reply to your post earlier in this thread, here.
Since starting this post several things have prevented me from finishing it more fully. You said:
James 3: 9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. 10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. 11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? 12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. 13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
Clearly, James is not talking about the flesh by this stage of the chapter. He is talking about the Spirit - the moderation, or self-control part of its fruit - expecting saints to walk in the Spirit.
I have more to say about other comments you've made about the flesh, but it's too late to start them, now. Another time... not sure when.
Bless you, brother. :)
This is my reply to your post earlier in this thread, here.
Since starting this post several things have prevented me from finishing it more fully. You said:
So let me reflect James' conclusion back to you:
James 3: 9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God. 10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be. 11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter? 12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh. 13 Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.
Clearly, James is not talking about the flesh by this stage of the chapter. He is talking about the Spirit - the moderation, or self-control part of its fruit - expecting saints to walk in the Spirit.
I have more to say about other comments you've made about the flesh, but it's too late to start them, now. Another time... not sure when.
Bless you, brother. :)
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