Calling all Law Keepers.

[Helen]

We know that we have had many threads on 'Law v Grace' and 'Faith v Works’ Including hundreds of posts on all of them.
We basically all know now where each other stands on these issues as we have all ready the numerous posts.

So here I just wish to ask in this Thread…not what you each believe, but for those of you who do believe that we are required by God to keep the law to tell us how you personally actually do that.

Please tell us how it works for in your every day life?

If you have been a Christian for many years believing this, then how has it been working for you?

*How much closer to perfection are you now than when you first believed?

What do you actually do to make perfection happen in your life?

How do you actually live this life daily?

And, if at the end of your life you still haven’t totally mastered all the commandments and even more so…if you haven’t loved God with every moment of your life, and actually love your neighbour as much as you love yourself, wife and family...what then?
What do you believe will happen to you then at the end of life?
Do you think you will go to hell because you failed?
If not, why not?

This is not placed in The Bible Study section…so a load of quoted scriptures won’t cut it.
We need the reality of how this works in actual life, not theory or scripture quotes, but how it is done.

This is a request for those who say we must keep the laws Old and New..to tell us how we are to actually do that? What do you tell your children?
Tell us what you have learned about how to get there in perfect law keeping…
Because after all these years I am better at lots of things than I was decades ago…but I am still a long way from perfection.

For years I'd just say:- We can’t do it in ourselves, but we do it “by the Spirit”…well years later I am no closer to perfection! I do not love much more that I used to!

I have forgotten who, but yesterday someone posted- “ God requires us to be perfect as He is perfect” We all know all the scriptures! Just saying them or quoting doesn't help the doing of it!

But, I believe that God required Israel to keep the law…they couldn’t and didn’t do it…hence the lambs of sacrifice for their sins and failings, and the blood of bulls and goats. A type of the perfect Sacrifice to come.

Jesus gave the two new commandments NT….this is what I would like to know…How is that working for you? How much better are you at it now..years later?

Not scriptures, but in your own real everyday life…from you heart...how is love really working?
How perfect is your love going to be when you are face to face with God?

Will you manage to perfectly perfect love in your life time…?

And what “if not”…then what? What do you think then?

I , and I’m sure some others, are listening here.
I believe this is something that should be talked about. We've had scripture after scripture after scripture in the threads...now lets hear the hearts speak.

Looking forward to many answers. :)

 

[bbyrd009]

for me it has manifested in different ways at different times, currently in being aware of how i make some things easier for mom, which has shown me how like simple little things that you might do serve others in the course of a day.

 

[Richard_oti]

Please tell us how it works for in your every day life?

Been so long, that it is simply everyday life. Probably not much different from yours with very few exceptions.

If you have been a Christian for many years believing this, then how has it been working for you?

Great. Like I said, it is simply life.

*How much closer to perfection are you now than when you first believed?

None. There is nothing that I can do. My response was/is that of love. "God" has asked, I responded according to His direction.

How about you? Probably about the same according to your perception.

What do you actually do to make perfection happen in your life?

Like I said, nothing. No more than you. I do what I feel the "Spirit" of "God" has led me to do. Which is to walk to the best of my knowledge and ability according to His ways.

Consider the "ten", you no doubt uphold 9 of those 10. In fact, of those 9, you would probably be appalled by those who rampantly disregard them. I just take the it one further with regard to the 10, I observe shabat also. As well as much more.

How do you actually live this life daily?

Probably the same as you, one step at a time. It's not that difficult.

And, if at the end of your life you still haven’t totally mastered all the commandments and even more so…if you haven’t loved God with every moment of your life, and actually love your neighbour as much as you love yourself, wife and family...what then?

Same as you.

What do you believe will happen to you then at the end of life?
Do you think you will go to hell because you failed?
If not, why not?

Well:
Love does cover over a multitude if sins.
Mercy triumphs over judgment.
Judge not and you won't be judged.
And there is an Advocate (cf 1 John 2:1)

Things like that ring a bell?

So, hopefully, if I am walking as He would have me, I act justly, love kindness, have mercy, and walk humbly. Not much different than you I would expect.

<snip for brevity>

This is a request for those who say we must keep the laws Old and New..to tell us how we are to actually do that?

Consider "Thou shall not steal"? How do you actually do that?

I probably do it the same way you do.

What do you tell your children?

Cf Deut 6:7

How many of us have been told or told our children to "think" before we/they "act"?

What do we "think"? How does what we "think" affect our "actions"?

In Exodus 13:9, 13:16, Deuteronomy 6:8, 11:18, the "commands" are to be thought upon, and thus our actions follow the manner in which we think. Yeah, I know, many may argue the above, I don't care. But I do find it interesting that the "mark" of the beast is also upon one of those places (cp Exo 13:16 : Rev 13:16).

It is interesting that the blood of the Passover is upon the "head" and "arms" of a doorway, a "covering" if you will from destruction. Just as the blood of the Passover Lamb, serves as a covering for our "thoughts" and "actions".

Tell us what you have learned about how to get there in perfect law keeping…
Because after all these years I am better at lots of things than I was decades ago…but I am still a long way from perfection.

I ain't perfect. And my "patience", has vastly declined since my wife passed. A shortcoming I am all too aware of. Yes, I did it again, I ended a sentence with a preposition. That's two grammar "sins" within one paragraph. <grin>

For years I'd just say:- We can’t do it in ourselves, but we do it “by the Spirit”…well years later I am no closer to perfection! I do not love much more that I used to!

I have forgotten who, but yesterday someone posted- “ God requires us to be perfect as He is perfect” We all know all the scriptures! Just saying them or quoting doesn't help the doing of it!

No it doesn't. And, that is from the "Sermon on the Mount", Matthew 5. Jesus telling us not to treat only our brethren good, but all mankind. In Philippians 3, Paul admits that not even he had attained that. None of us have, not one. Anyone stating otherwise, I must conclude is either deceived or a liar. Most who make such statements are very "zealous", and "zeal" is good, wish I had more of it. Heck, I may be lukewarm anymore and not worth anything. However, while zeal is good, it also needs to be tempered. Tempered with knowledge. Regrettably, many think they have found the "key", yet do not realize that their knowledge has a long way to go, and much to increase.

But, I believe that God required Israel to keep the law…they couldn’t and didn’t do it…hence the lambs of sacrifice for their sins and failings, and the blood of bulls and goats. A type of the perfect Sacrifice to come.

Again, the law was not merely for "Israel", but also for those who choose the way of "God". And let us not forget, that Noah, Job and Daniel, were considered righteous. Daniel, was definitely under Torah (Law). However, it is also clear, that even in the time of Noah, there was some form of "law". Otherwise, by what "measure" or "standard" was there "evil".

Jesus gave the two new commandments NT….this is what I would like to know…How is that working for you? How much better are you at it now..years later?

The "two" commands, were there all along, they were/are nothing new (cf Deut 6:5 ; Lev 19:18). Would you say that to fall short of one the "two" is to "sin" at times? I would. And yes, I fall short short at times.

We all fairly well know what it means to love our "neighbor", how we should act, what we should do (and not do). But what does it really mean to "obey" or "do" the greatest command in the law? How do we do so?

For me, it is to do as He has asked of His people in so that they are a people that are peculiar to Him. Shabat would be a clear such example.

Not scriptures, but in your own real everyday life…from you heart...how is love really working?

Probably not much different than you. For all I know, yours may be better.

How perfect is your love going to be when you are face to face with God?

Again, probably not much different than yours. I just responded in the manner that I still strongly feel that He led me, in the face of great resistance. Am I perfect? Let's see, shall I lie to you? No, I am not perfect. And I am knowledgeable enough to know that I am not, and to know that I never shall be in this life. Particularly if I continue to grow more cantankerous as I age. <grin>

Will you manage to perfectly perfect love in your life time…?

And what “if not”…then what? What do you think then?

No. Same as you. And again, love, mercy, don't judge, an Advocate...

I , and I’m sure some others, are listening here.
I believe this is something that should be talked about. We've had scripture after scripture after scripture in the threads...now lets hear the hearts speak.

Looking forward to many answers. :)

Thanks to Groper for responding to you, otherwise I would have missed this thread.

 

[mjrhealth]

Consider the "ten", you no doubt uphold 9 of those 10.

Well do you do this in thought as well, for by teh law even a thought is sin, just like when you see some fool murdering children, first thought is well he deserves to die, a sin by thought. No none of us are perfect, as you say as we get older it just gets harder, one cannot keep the law without accepting the consequence of breaking them. Its a bit like saying, I will not speed I will not speed, than you get busted just by chance when you pop over a hill and go a few k's over the limit, cop pulls you up, hands you a fine , than you say, i dont want teh fine i would rather someone else paid. If you can keep te h9 even in thought than you dont need Jesus. because you have just made yourself perfect. As for teh sabbath, i hope you stay in bed all day that day.

In teh end of all this we are there because of God grace not our doings.

 

[Richard_oti]

Well do you do this in thought as well, for by teh law even a thought is sin, just like when you see some fool murdering children, first thought is well he deserves to die, a sin by thought. No none of us are perfect, as you say as we get older it just gets harder, one cannot keep the law without accepting the consequence of breaking them. Its a bit like saying, I will not speed I will not speed, than you get busted just by chance when you pop over a hill and go a few k's over the limit, cop pulls you up, hands you a fine , than you say, i dont want teh fine i would rather someone else paid. If you can keep te h9 even in thought than you dont need Jesus. because you have just made yourself perfect. As for teh sabbath, i hope you stay in bed all day that day.

<chuckle> You have heard it said, "as you have judged". May mercy triumph over judgment. I do accept the consequences. I have no issue with the consequences. You shall not hear me cry "Lord Lord".

We all know, to speed is to break the law. We all know, that there are consequences for such. If we are willing to speed, then we must accept those consequences. The alternative, is to not speed in the first place, then there are no consequences. Do we need "Jesus" to not speed? Do we need Jesus to pay our fine for speeding? No.

We need the blood of Jesus, to cover our past transgressions, when we did not know "God", when we lived in ignorance. To cover us from the destruction that is rightly ours. That, shall never change. Not for any of us.

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.

 

[Job]

This is a request for those who say we must keep the laws Old and New..to tell us how we are to actually do that?

Treat people the way you want to be treated. Love your neighbor as yourself.

 

[Dcopymope]

Well, I haven't killed anyone, so that's a start right?

 

[mjrhealth]

Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and a fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries.

Well when you can take a thought captive before it occurs than you will be my hero, but all sin willfully or not. None will stand before Him in their own righteousness. Sad thing is while you sit there trying, many who dont have already being to see teh Lord, not because of what they have done but because of Him, they simply believe Him sadly many dont, still trying to earn there way as if nthey could.

 

[mjrhealth]

We all know, to speed is to break the law. We all know, that there are consequences for such. If we are willing to speed, then we must accept those consequences. The alternative, is to not speed in the first place, then there are no consequences. Do we need "Jesus" to not speed? Do we need Jesus to pay our fine for speeding? No.

And here lies teh problem, we are not perfect, thou many claim to be.. My dad has forever tired to perfect himself, he tries hard, but one day he was driving, I saw he was over the speed limit, let him know, got all embarrassed, and guilt ridden, but you see that is what teh law does, it takes away from Gods grace and adds nothing.

 

[bbyrd009]

And here lies teh problem, we are not perfect, thou many claim to be.. My dad has forever tired to perfect himself, he tries hard, but one day he was driving, I saw he was over the speed limit, let him know, got all embarrassed, and guilt ridden, but you see that is what teh law does, it takes away from Gods grace and adds nothing.

horse puckey, the law did exactly what it was supposed to do there imo, it made a law breaker embarrassed, and all he was required to do at that point was confess his sin and rebound. His embarrassment kind of speaks for itself iow.

 

[bbyrd009]

new believers need the foundation, and meat eaters do not need to constantly re-lay the foundation.

 

[Pisteuo]

Without the law, does conviction exist? Without conviction, does repentance exist?
I've never considered myself a "law keeper" but can see how I was without trying to be. Now I'm just trying to NOT be a LawYer!

 

[Helen]

I am still not hearing anyone mention how well they are doing in perfection.
How what you are doing is enough. What I am reading is the things that automatically come from within as kind acts = good works.
What I am wishing to see are the people posting who keep insisting that believers MUST keep God law. Be it the 10 commandments or the two new ones Jesus gave.
I want to hear just how WELL they are doing that!!
In some of the threads they have posted many scriptures " proving their point," that we are required to keep God's laws...I want to hear from their heart...if THEY are managing that!!
For I sure cannot!!
It is those people that I am sure wont post in this thread.
Preaching it is easy...doing it is impossible.... that is why JESUS came and died FOR us.
Someone was going on about how we should live by the sermon on the mount..
He even said how Jesus was raising the bar from the old 10...Israel couldn't even keep the 10 and needs slain lamb to cover their sins. And some people on here think we must live by the sermon on the mount...I want to know HOW!! Are THEY themselves?

Matt 5:18 " For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, untill ALL be fulfilled. ( ✟ by Jesus)
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. "
Etc etc..
So, where are those who believe that this is our standard of life...if this be it...heaven will be an empty place because they wont make it either, Who will!!

 

[bbyrd009]

For I sure cannot!

horse puckey, imo, as my earlier Q would show. The one about when was the last time someone came to you with a complaint against you, that one. You can, and you already do. You say that you cannot, but i suggest that what you cannot do is confess any sin, and not because you are in denial.

 

[bbyrd009]

I want to know HOW!

by being sensitive to others, and not being oblivious to hurting them, like i used to be

doesn't mean i won't accidentally offend someone sometimes; it means i have a remedy now that is above the law.
They do not need to prove my guilt in the face of my denial, if i am not in denial.

 

[liafailrock]

Let me ask a question in tandem with the OP. What is so irritating about Christians who want to keep the law? At least that's what I am sensing.

 

[tabletalk]

How about the Virgin Mary?
The Catholic Church proclaims her as sinless. She must have kept the law perfectly (whether it was the Mosaic Law, law of Faith or Law of Christ, etc.).
The OP states: "We need the reality of how this works in actual life, not theory or scripture quotes, but how it is done."
Maybe one of the Catholic apologists can tell us how she did this in everyday life.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I am still not hearing anyone mention how well they are doing in perfection.
How what you are doing is enough. What I am reading is the things that automatically come from within as kind acts = good works.
What I am wishing to see are the people posting who keep insisting that believers MUST keep God law. Be it the 10 commandments or the two new ones Jesus gave.
I want to hear just how WELL they are doing that!!
In some of the threads they have posted many scriptures " proving their point," that we are required to keep God's laws...I want to hear from their heart...if THEY are managing that!!
For I sure cannot!!
It is those people that I am sure wont post in this thread.
Preaching it is easy...doing it is impossible.... that is why JESUS came and died FOR us.
Someone was going on about how we should live by the sermon on the mount..
He even said how Jesus was raising the bar from the old 10...Israel couldn't even keep the 10 and needs slain lamb to cover their sins. And some people on here think we must live by the sermon on the mount...I want to know HOW!! Are THEY themselves?

Matt 5:18 " For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, untill ALL be fulfilled. ( ✟ by Jesus)
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. "
Etc etc..
So, where are those who believe that this is our standard of life...if this be it...heaven will be an empty place because they wont make it either, Who will!!

The thread title: calling all law keepers

Everyday I sin: whether it be coveting, anger, doubt, fear, complaining, smoking; the list is endless. Even though I don't want to, I sin. Thankfully, my relationship with God is not based on what I do but what He did. Therefore; I am a law keeper. I walk perfect and blameless and upright with hope and faith in what was prepared by God. Jesus Christ is the only way. The more I focus on TRYing to be perfect through the flesh, the less I focus on His gift and praising Him for what He has already done and loving others. There is great freedom in the removal of the yoke of bondage. It is true: His burden is light.

 

[Helen]

Again, probably not much different than yours. I just responded in the manner that I still strongly feel that He led me, in the face of great resistance. Am I perfect? Let's see, shall I lie to you? No, I am not perfect. And I am knowledgeable enough to know that I am not, and to know that I never shall be in this life. Particularly if I continue to grow more cantankerous as I age.

Firstly thank you for replying.
Well all I can say is that you seem very confused....out of one side of your mouth you say we must not sin...and out of the other you say that above. By that you are saying that you do not keep Gods law.

The difference being between us...I know I am far from perfect ,been at it 54 years..
for many years I sat under ministry who taught that bit by bit we "get better"...and move toward perfection. I believed it...until I saw that it did not actually WORK!
Christians still get just as angry, just as bitter, just as unloving as the rest of the world.

Then in the 90's I saw what GRACE was all about...Jesus filled the gap...the gap between what God requires and and our constant short falls. Jesus is The Gap between.

We enter heaven 100% on the FINISHED work of Christ...the ONLY righteousness we have is HIS.
Anything 'of ours' is nothing but self-righteousness.
People who preach " We MUST be perfect as He is perfect" lay weights of guilt upon the believers shoulders. Those are the ones that I want to know how THEY DO IT...because I don't believe they do.

I tell you...in the 60's we knew of a Holiness preacher...he could preach a wonderful- " lets be Holy because God requires it..sermon"...and we found out he went home after church and beat his wife black and blue.
For those who preach it,and believe that we must, better make sure they live it. For, accounting to them (you?) Hell awaits those who break one law, be it love or any other.
'.....for as many as have sinned "in the law" shall be judged by the law..'
- those who believe that we still must keep the laws, by those very laws they themselves will be judged. For them, our old friend Paul speaks..I beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.
They make grace null and void in their own lives...that is bad enough...*but telling others that grace is not enough for their short fall, is heinous. It is saying the Jesus was and is not enough.

As for me and my house we have yielded, knowing that our only hope of salvation is Lord of Grace. To God be all the glory!

 

[Helen]

The thread title: calling all law keepers

Everyday I sin: whether it be coveting, anger, doubt, fear, complaining, smoking; the list is endless. Even though I don't want to, I sin. Thankfully, my relationship with God is not based on what I do but what He did. Therefore; I am a law keeper.
I walk perfect and blameless and upright with hope and faith in what was prepared by God.
Jesus Christ is the only way. The more I focus on TRYing to be perfect through the flesh, the less I focus on His gift and praising Him for what He has already done and loving others. There is great freedom in the removal of the yoke of bondage. It is true: His burden is light.

Thank you so much! Amen to that...I just wish that everyone could see it.
I posted the thread because I got tired of seeing some people declaring that the law could be kept in our own strength and works.
You said it MUCH clearer than I could say it....I know that I am a clunky writer!
I don't express myself very well.
Bless you..Helen .