But shun profane and vain babblings

[Zao is life]

The posts are coming fast and furious in this thread, so it's hard to keep up. I missed that one. So, you do believe in soul sleep. That explains a lot.

Does it look like the souls of the dead in Christ that John saw in heaven were sleeping?

Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

Stop lying about what I believe.

I do not believe that the spirit of the human that is separated from his body that died - the spirit that goes to be with Christ - is also dead, or even 'sleeping'. The body is sleeping in death, not the spirit who was born of God.

What I said is that scripture does not tell us anything more. It's still the death of Adam, his body is separated from his spirit in death - the death of his body - and that death is the enemy of God, which is why Christ took on A HUMAN BODY AND DIED AND ROSE AGAIN, AFTER TAKING THE SIN THAT PRODUCED THAT DEATH UPON HIMSELF.

Mankind was created to live on God's created earth, in a created body. We were not created to "go to heaven when we die and live forever in heaven". That physical death is the enemy of God.

Scripture does not produce the theology you believe in. It tells us nothing more than what I posted in my reply to you. The rest is your addition to the Word of God, and the addition of whoever agrees with you.

 

[Zao is life]

Nope, you use your Bible search and look up the words “the first resurrection” and you will get 2 hits, both in Rev. 20.

Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The “Amils” are trying to take the words “the first resurrection” and make them fit into their own false narrative that is not speaking of this single Rev. 20 resurrection of the dead and living in Christ called “The first resurrection”

They are “taking away”from the meaning of the words of God to push a false doctrine.
Here is your warning….

Revelation 22:18-19​

​

King James Version​

​

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take awayhis part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”

You “Amils” have been warned!

I think that the above warning refers to those who do so or have done so deliberately and knowingly, @Stewardofthemystery . These guys on this board are doing so because they are completely blinded by their theology produced in the minds of men, which is not of the Spirit.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

I think that the above warning refers to those who do so or have done so deliberately and knowingly, @Stewardofthemystery . These guys on this board are doing so because they are completely blinded by their theology produced in the minds of men, which is not of the Spirit.

Luke 6:39
And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Not true! Revelation 20 is showing the potent after-effects of Christ's resurrection from the grave.

Rev 20’s “the first resurrection” event is showing a future end time physical resurrection of the saints in Christ being gathered together with the rest of the host of heaven.

This future event is shown here…

Ephesians 1:10-14

King James Version

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:​

11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Nope, you use your Bible search and look up the words “the first resurrection” and you will get 2 hits, both in Rev. 20.

Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The “Amils” are trying to take the words “the first resurrection” and make them fit into their own false narrative that is not speaking of this single Rev. 20 resurrection of the dead and living in Christ called “The first resurrection”

They are “taking away”from the meaning of the words of God to push a false doctrine.
Here is your warning….

You are being lazy. Was the Bible written in English? No, it was not. Do you not think it worth your time to look at any Greek resources since the New Testament was written in Greek?

The phrase "the first resurrection" is taken from the Greek words "protos" (first) and "anastasis" (resurrection). Here is the only other verse besides in Revelation 20 where that phrase can be found in the original Greek manuscript:

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first (protos) that should rise (anastasis) from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

Nice try, though, buddy. Your grasp of English is pretty good, but try to remember that the New Testament was written in Greek, Okay, pal?

Revelation 22:18-19​

​

King James Version​

​

18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take awayhis part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”

You “Amils” have been warned!

That is talking about PURPOSELY adding or taking away from the book which Amils are not doing. This is just another passage that you take out of context.

Here is a warning for you!

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

Since you can't be bothered with taking any time to see what the Greek words mean that the English words are translated from, this is talking about not condemning others like you are doing.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Luke 6:39
And he spake a parable unto them, Can the blind lead the blind? shall they not both fall into the ditch?

Do you believe in soul sleep like your buddy there does? He can't accept Amil no matter how much evidence we provide because he falsely thinks people have no consciousness after physical death. Is that why you can't accept Amil, also?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The vain babblings of men.

You mean vain babblings like your belief in the false doctrine of soul sleep? Those kinds of vain babblings?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Your own ad hominem above has just been added to @Spiritual Israelite, proving what a peace-maker you are.

LOL! You are hilarious. I could fill up an entire post with just your insults. Probably more like 2 or 3 posts. Your holier than thou act isn't fooling anyone.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Says who, you? You don’t speak for me.

Revelation 6:9-11​

King James Version​

​

9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled”

LOL. Are you a narcissist? I wasn't talking to you there, I was talking to "Zao is life".

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Stop lying about what I believe.

Do you even know what a lie is? If I'm misrepresenting you, I'm certainly not doing it purposely. I'm going by what you are telling me. If you don't believe in soul sleep, then why do you say things as if you do?

I asked you if you believe the souls of the dead in Christ are alive and your answer in post #92 strongly suggested that you don't believe that. So, if that's not what you believe, why don't you just give a straightforward answer for once and then I'll be less likely to misrepresent your view.

I do not believe that the spirit of the human that is separated from his body that died - the spirit that goes to be with Christ - is also dead, or even 'sleeping'. The body is sleeping in death, not the spirit who was born of God.

Do you believe that a person has consciousness after they physically die? Yes or no, please. Don't make me have to guess as to what you believe by giving a long winded answer. Just be succinct. Please.

What I said is that scripture does not tell us anything more.

Sure, it does. It talks about people having consciousness after physical death in passages like Luke 16:19-31 and Revelation 6:9-11. Also, it says that God is the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and He is not the God of the dead, but of the living (Matthew 22:32). Also, Moses and Elijah appeared at the transfiguration of Jesus and talked to Him, so they are obviously still alive and conscious despite being physically dead. And, yes, Elijah did die despite what some try to say. Regardless, Moses certainly died (Deuteronomy 34:5-7).

It's still the death of Adam, his body is separated from his spirit in death - the death of his body - and that death is the enemy of God, which is why Christ took on A HUMAN BODY AND DIED AND ROSE AGAIN, AFTER TAKING THE SIN THAT PRODUCED THAT DEATH UPON HIMSELF.

Mankind was created to live on God's created earth, in a created body. We were not created to "go to heaven when we die and live forever in heaven". That physical death is the enemy of God.

Scripture does not produce the theology you believe in. It tells us nothing more than what I posted in my reply to you. The rest is your addition to the Word of God, and the addition of whoever agrees with you.

Yes, it does. You just don't believe it. And I suspect the reason for that is mostly because of your hatred of the Amil doctrine as much as anything else. You know that if you acknowledge that the souls of the dead in Christ are conscious then the Amil claim that they are reigning with Christ in heaven is at least possible, which you don't want to admit.

 

[WPM]

I think that the above warning refers to those who do so or have done so deliberately and knowingly, @Stewardofthemystery . These guys on this board are doing so because they are completely blinded by their theology produced in the minds of men, which is not of the Spirit.

Yeah right! Anyone that does not agree with Premillennialism is in darkness and is of the devil.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I think that the above warning refers to those who do so or have done so deliberately and knowingly, @Stewardofthemystery . These guys on this board are doing so because they are completely blinded by their theology produced in the minds of men, which is not of the Spirit.

LOL. At least you are not condemning us to hell like he is, so that's something, I guess. And at least you are not accusing us of claiming that the dead in Christ have already been resurrected as he is doing by associating us with 2 Timothy 2:18. As you know, we don't believe that. So, congrats on not being judgmental in that way like he is. And, at least you are not saying we are purposely adding to and/or taking away from the book of Revelation so that the plagues described in the book will come upon us along with our names being removed from the book of life as this judgmental guy Stewaredofthemystery believes. I guess in his Bible having the correct interpretation of Revelation 20 is how people are saved. I would never condemn someone just because they misinterpret Revelation 20. That's obviously crazy.

 

[honeycomb]

Do you deny the first resurrection of Christ? If so that makes you a heretic.

This First Resurrection is referring to the First Resurrection to immortality, including all the overcomers (the saints).

There are two distinct events that occur when Jesus Christ returns at the final trump.

The first, which applies to everyone, both good and wicked, is that we are all "raised up" or "changed" from flesh bodies to spiritual bodies—from corruptible flesh to incorruptible spirit. The second thing that happens is known as the First Resurrection to eternal life. That is where the saints who are now in their spiritual bodies are "raised" or "resurrected" to the level of immortality (eternal life).

(If people took the time to comprehend the distinction between the resurrection of the body and the resurrection of the soul to immortality, much confusion and "mystery" in the minds of Christians would be cleared up and answered.)

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while. And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

- Revelation 20:1-6

 

[Zao is life]

There seems to be much confusion about the ETERNAL life we spiritually possess now when we are saved, and the IMMORTAL life we shall physically possess when the hour comes and all who are in the graves who have done good shall be resurrected immortal & incorruptible.

The confusion is yours, though. There is only one eternal spirit - and He is not you.

Fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in gehennah because the devil lied from the beginning to Adam making him believe he had eternal life in himself.

The life you have now is in Christ, who alone possesses life in Himself.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Is that why you can't accept Amil, also?

I don’t accept the false doctrines of men. The Lords sheep shall hear His voice, but a strangers voice they will not hear, nor follow.

 

[WPM]

This First Resurrection is referring to the First Resurrection to immortality, including all the overcomers (the saints).

There are two distinct events that occur when Jesus Christ returns at the final trump.

The first, which applies to everyone, both good and wicked, is that we are all "raised up" or "changed" from flesh bodies to spiritual bodies—from corruptible flesh to incorruptible spirit. The second thing that happens is known as the First Resurrection to eternal life. That is where the saints who are now in their spiritual bodies are "raised" or "resurrected" to the level of immortality (eternal life).

(If people took the time to comprehend the distinction between the resurrection of the body and the resurrection of the soul to immortality, much confusion and "mystery" in the minds of Christians would be cleared up and answered.)

Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while. And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

- Revelation 20:1-6

Physical resurrection is not even the 1st resurrection believers experience - spiritual resurrection in Christ is, neither is physical resurrection the means we overcome the second death, spiritual resurrection in Christ is. So, whatever way you look at it your doctrine does not add up. Amillennialism is the only position that fits.

 

[jeffweeder]

This First Resurrection is referring to the First Resurrection to immortality, including all the overcomers (the saints).

There are two distinct events that occur when Jesus Christ returns at the final trump.

The first, which applies to everyone, both good and wicked, is that we are all "raised up" or "changed" from flesh bodies to spiritual bodies—from corruptible flesh to incorruptible spirit. The second thing that happens is known as the First Resurrection to eternal life. That is where the saints who are now in their spiritual bodies are "raised" or "resurrected" to the level of immortality (eternal life).

JN 5
24 “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, the person who hears My word [the one who heeds My message], and believes and trusts in Him who sent Me, has (possesses now) eternal life [that is, eternal life actually begins—the believer is transformed], and does not come into judgment and condemnation, but has passed [over] from death into life.

This above is your Spiritual resurrection to Eternal life .......and it "now is" as seen below.​

Those who partake of the fruits of Jesus resurrection are not hurt by the second death.



25 I assure you and most solemnly say to you, a time is coming and is [here] now, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear it will live.

26 For just as the Father has life in Himself [and is self-existent], even so He has given to the Son to have life in Himself [and be self-existent]. 27 And He has given Him authority to execute judgment, because He is a Son of Man [sinless humanity, qualifying Him to sit in judgment over mankind].



Below is the bodily resurrection at a future time,


28 Do not be surprised at this; for a time is coming when all those who are in the tombs will hear His voice, 29 and they will come out—those who did good things [will come out] to a resurrection of [new] life, but those who did evil things [will come out] to a resurrection of judgment [that is, to be sentenced].

 

[Zao is life]

LOL! You are hilarious. I could fill up an entire post with just your insults. Probably more like 2 or 3 posts. Your holier than thou act isn't fooling anyone.

LOL. I could fill up an entire book with all the insults you hurl at anyone and everyone who ever disagrees with you in these boards. I wouldn't be so proud of being able to fill up a little post with your receipt of what you are so good at dishing out.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I don’t accept the false doctrines of men.

Well, yes, you do. Such as premillennialism, for one.

The Lords sheep shall hear His voice, but a strangers voice they will not hear, nor follow.

Here you are condemning us again, saying we're not His sheep as if being His sheep is not based on being saved by grace through faith, but instead is based on interpreting Revelation 20 correctly. LOL. Such a joke. May God have mercy on your soul for condemning us for merely interpreting Revelation 20 differently than you do. You should humble yourself before He does. It's much less painful that way.

 

[Zao is life]

Do you believe in soul sleep like your buddy there does? He can't accept Amil no matter how much evidence we provide because he falsely thinks people have no consciousness after physical death. Is that why you can't accept Amil, also?

What a liar you are. You keep lying about what I believe. You really do seem to think you're God who knows what I believe and do not believe.

You're not even shame-faced. But I'm not surprised at all.

You are the only one who believes in soul-sleep over here.