Zao is life
Well-Known Member
I did answer your questions. You didn't answer the questions I asked you. Are you afraid to answer them?
But shun profane and vain babblings
- Thread starter Stewardofthemystery
- Start date
-
Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.
You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Please stop your hypocrisy. You just accused me of lying in a previous post. You have hurled insults left and right at people ever since I joined this forum and you know it, so spare me this nonsense. If I am misinterpreting something, so be it. I am absolutely not doing it on purpose as you are falsely accusing me of doing.
Stewardofthemystery is not accusing us of being like a cult, he is accusing of us being a cult. Stop trying to defend that judgmental person who thinks salvation hinges on our interpretations of Revelation 20.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
LOL. Are my questions too difficult for you? Your avoidance of them says a lot. Are you afraid to answer them? Do you not think the souls of the dead in Christ who are in heaven right now are alive? Do you believe in soul sleep?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
I have answered your questions. Don't lie. I don't see where you said whether or not you believe the souls of the dead in Christ are alive or not. So, what is your answer to that question?
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
That is because he does not differentiate between the body and the soul and spirit of a person. That's why I'm asking him if he believes that the souls of the dead in Christ who are in heaven now are alive or not. He's trying to claim that the word "zao" can only refer to those who are alive bodily which makes me wonder if he believes in soul sleep.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
Your hypcorisy consists in your telling me something is a lie when anyone who reads the list of scriptures I give that use the word zao can see it for themselves. And telling me I never answered your questions - which I answered - though you have not answered mine.
Did Adam die because death (the first death) had no power over him?
Who alone is immortal, according to scripture, if you know?
Who alone has eternal life in Himself, according to scripture, if you know?
In whom do we have life, according to scripture, if you know?
In whom did Adam have life, according to scripture, if you know?
Who created and who was created, according to scripture, if you know?
Will there be a second sacrifice for sins and a second resurrection from the second death, according to scripture, if you know?
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
I did answer you - and repeating the same answer is pointless because you have once again made it obvious that you are only interested in winning an argument and not in what scripture actually says as you go about defending your own human theology that masquerades as Christian theology.
@Spiritual Israelite The Post is Post #92, and I have highlighted my reply in red to you.
Last edited:
Not true! Revelation 20 is showing the potent after-effects of Christ's resurrection from the grave. We see the blessing, impact and change this had upon the redeemed and the defeat it wrought upon Satan. This is a narrative of victory, power and authority. Christ is depicted as a conquering king. He came to deliver His own and subjugate the devil. The spiritual chains that bound the Gentiles has not been placed upon Satan.
Many overlook the phrase "hath part." Whatever that refers to will seal this debate. The unfortunate thing for Premils is that it is present tense. So whatever resurrection it is speaking of, believers currently have their "part" in it. Whatever “the first resurrection” is, participation in it qualifies humans’ to escape the horrors of eternal punishment (the second death). In this experience Christians identify with Christ’s victorious resurrection.
The Greek for “that hath part” is echo méros. The Greek verb echo correctly interpreted “that hath” in the King James Version is written in the present tense and in the active voice. Therefore, we can view the relevance and vitality of “the first resurrection” as being both current and ongoing. Christ’s victory over death is not simply a past event that has no active bearing upon what we are today; it is ongoing reality in the lives of God’s people. The Greek word translated “part” in the text is the word meros meaning share, allotment or portion. This reading tells us that all those that have come to the joy of saving faith in Christ have become partakers in the resurrection life, and through this will escape the horrors of the second death – eternal wrath.
This passage is describing the reality and result of our mystical union with Christ. The expression “in Christ” [Gr. en Christo] is found 216 times in the New Testament and refers to our federal and covenantal standing. It shows us that our spiritual status is totally derived from and dependent upon relationship with Christ. Upon salvation we are united to Christ. He is the head we are the body. The blessing, decisions and authority come through the head.
This matter is absolutely crucial to understanding Revelation 20 and conclusively damning for the Premil doctrine. That is why Premils duck round it.
When we get saved we become one with Jesus Christ spiritually. We identify with Christ and the victory He won over sin, death and the grave. As He died, was buried and conquered death, we also have our “part” in His success.
This is supported by Revelation 2:11, which similarly says: “He that overcometh (present active particle) shall not be hurt of the second death.”
The word “overcometh” here is actually written in the present active particle meaning it relates to the here-and-now. It is an experience that is realized in life. When you have "eth" in the KJV it means it is a present reality.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
Will you try to tone it down a few notches? You're going to give yourself a heart attack. What lie did I tell exactly? Remember, to lie is to intentionally deny the truth. I did not deny that the word was used to refer to people being bodily alive in the verses you quoted. How often are those who are physically dead but alive in heaven referred to in scripture? Rarely, right? So, of course, the vast majority of the time that word is used, it will be used in reference to those who are alive bodily. This does not prove that it can't be used to refer to those who are alive in heaven right now. Show me a Greek resource which says that the word "zao" can only refer to someone being alive bodily. You do believe that the souls of the dead in Christ who are with Christ in heaven right now are spiritually alive, don't you?
Where did you answer them? Just give me a straight answer. Do you believe that the souls of the dead in Christ are spiritually alive in heaven right now? Yes or no?
What is the point of these questions? Are you suggesting that the dead in Christ are not yet guaranteed of avoiding the second death? If not, then I don't know what you're trying to say here.
Says who, you? You don’t speak for me.
Revelation 6:9-11
King James Version
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled”
The reason why Premillennialist are full of such ad hominem on these boards is because they have nothing to corroborate their opinions of Revelation 20. All they have is avoidance, insults and name-calling.
Spiritual Israelite
Well-Known Member
The posts are coming fast and furious in this thread, so it's hard to keep up. I missed that one. So, you do believe in soul sleep. That explains a lot.
Does it look like the souls of the dead in Christ that John saw in heaven were sleeping?
Revelation 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
Your own ad hominem above has just been added to @Spiritual Israelite, proving what a peace-maker you are.
Well done.
Why am I not surprised?
Revelation 20 shows Christ gain an incredible victory over every enemy of righteousness:
- Christ had to defeat sin – the source of man’s enslavement.
- He had to defeat Satan the instrument used to tempt man to sin.
- He had to defeat death (or the grave) the penalty of sin.
- He had to defeat Hades (or Abraham’s bosom) the prison of the righteous dead.
- He had to defeat eternal punishment – the just reward for unrepentant sinners.
Satan has been totally defeated through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus. We don’t have to defeat the enemy, Jesus has already done that. All we need to do is use our God given authority and enforce that victory wherever we go.
Matthew 12:22-29, Mark 3:11, 23-27, Luke 10:18-19, Luke 11:20-22, John 12:31-33 Colossians 2:13-15, Hebrews 2:14-15, I John 3:8, Revelation 9:1-11, Revelation 12:7-9 and Revelation 20:2 prove Satan was cast out, bound, defeated, incapacitated, divested of power, disarmed, brought to naught, undone, stripped and spiritually imprisoned through Christ's sinless life, atoning death and triumphant resurrection. Colossians 2:15 tells us: “having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.” Satan has not been rendered immobile or inoperative but is limited in his power, kingship and influence by being defeated on the cross. He is like a dog on a chain. He is shackled.
Again, nothing but slurs and slights in your posts. Nothing of biblical weigh in what your present.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
The vain babblings of men.
Truth existed in Christ from all eternity. As long as our faith is ultimately only in He who is the way, the truth and the life, all is well.
Truth existed in Christ from all eternity. As long as our faith is ultimately only in He who is the way, the truth and the life, all is well.
Zao is life
Well-Known Member
Nope, you use your Bible search and look up the words “the first resurrection” and you will get 2 hits, both in Rev. 20.
Revelation 20:5
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
The “Amils” are trying to take the words “the first resurrection” and make them fit into their own false narrative that is not speaking of this single Rev. 20 resurrection of the dead and living in Christ called “The first resurrection”
They are “taking away”from the meaning of the words of God to push a false doctrine.
Here is your warning….
Revelation 22:18-19
King James Version
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take awayhis part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”
You “Amils” have been warned!
Similar threads
