Books Outside the Bible

[BreadOfLife]

That is someone you don't follow

"Someone" I don't follow?
Huh??

 

[BreadOfLife]

If anyone has perverted the Gospel it is the RCC. This church teaches that you cannot be saved except through the RCC and through the sacraments. That is a TOTAL PERVERSION of the Gospel.

And THAT is a perversion of Catholic doctrine.
Do your homework . . .

 

[Jun2u]

Partially true, partially perverted - but, you're welcome.[/QUOTE]

Isn't it nice when two individuals are civil to each other?

To God Be The Glory

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Hey madman, I mean Breadman, that wafer in front of you has a chip in it
I think it fell on your shoulder...

:)

 

[Prayer Warrior]

If anyone has perverted the Gospel it is the RCC. This church teaches that you cannot be saved except through the RCC and through the sacraments. That is a TOTAL PERVERSION of the Gospel.

Breadman needs to read his own church's doctrine/dogma!

"Catholic dogma is...that outside the [Catholic] Church there is no salvation." (quoted from Catholic.com)​

“Believing” is an ecclesial act. The [Catholic] Church’s faith precedes, engenders, supports, and nourishes our faith. The [Catholic] Church is the mother of all believers. “No one can have God as Father who does not have the [Catholic] Church as Mother” (St. Cyprian, De unit. 6: PL 4, 519). (emphasis added) (quoted from Catechism of the Catholic Church, Para. 181.)
​

I added the word Catholic in brackets because it's implied in the text.

 

[BreadOfLife]

Breadman needs to read his own church's doctrine/dogma!

"Catholic dogma is...that outside the [Catholic] Church there is no salvation." (quoted from Catholic.com)​

“Believing” is an ecclesial act. The [Catholic] Church’s faith precedes, engenders, supports, and nourishes our faith. The [Catholic] Church is the mother of all believers. “No one can have God as Father who does not have the [Catholic] Church as Mother” (St. Cyprian, De unit. 6: PL 4, 519). (emphasis added) (quoted from Catechism of the Catholic Church, Para. 181.)
​

I added the word Catholic in brackets because it's implied in the text.

Uhhhhhh, no. YOU need to o your homework.

The doctrine of Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (Outside the Church there is no salvation) does NOT mean that you have to be a member of the Catholic Church in order to be saved. If you had actually STUDIED the Catechism, you would have seen this in paragraphs 846-848 - instead of embarrassing yourself:

"Outside the Church there is no salvation"
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336

847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:
Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337

848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

If you’re going to pick a fight with an educated Catholic – I suggest you prepare for it by doing your HOMEWORK . . .

 

[Prayer Warrior]

No, BoL, I did my homework. My quotes from Catholic sources make things pretty clear! And your quotes do too!

CCC 846--"...salvation comes from Christ the Head through the [Catholic] Church..."

CCC 847--"...the gospel of Christ or His [Catholic] Church..." Huh???

 

[CoreIssue]

No “double-speak” at all.
I challenged CoreIssue to show me ONE verse that shows MARY had other children – and he FAILED.
All he could do was to bring up Matt. 1:25 by showing the word “until”. I obliteratedthat argument using nothing but Scriptureby showing how this word is NOT always used to determine that something happened AFTER the fact.
Matthew 1:25 New International Version (NIV)
25 But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.

You were given plenty of proof. Then you chose the catholic nonsense to attempt invent a way out.

"Did Mary have any children other than Jesus? If so, how can she be the eternal virgin?
Mary had four other sons, Joseph, James, Jude, and Simon. Because of the virgin birth, Joseph was not the father of Jesus so these were the half brothers of Jesus. The last three mentioned are not to be confused with those who were disciples of Jesus by the same name. Here are some passages where the other sons of Mary by Joseph are mentioned (Matt. 12:46; 13:55; Mark 6:3; John 2:12; 7:3, 5, 10; Acts 1:14; 1 Cor. 9:5; Gal. 1:19)"

 

[BreadOfLife]

No, BoL, I did my homework. My quotes from Catholic sources make things pretty clear! And your quotes do too!

CCC 846--"...salvation comes from Christ the Head through the [Catholic] Church..."

CCC 847--"...the gospel of Christ or His [Catholic] Church..." Huh???

You see - this is precisely the kimd of confusion that occurs when you don't read the WHOLE paragraph im context.

NO WONDER you don't get it . . .

 

[BreadOfLife]

You were given plenty of proof. Then you chose the catholic nonsense to attempt invent a way out.

"Did Mary have any children other than Jesus? If so, how can she be the eternal virgin?
Mary had four other sons, Joseph, James, Jude, and Simon. Because of the virgin birth, Joseph was not the father of Jesus so these were the half brothers of Jesus. The last three mentioned are not to be confused with those who were disciples of Jesus by the same name. Here are some passages where the other sons of Mary by Joseph are mentioned (Matt. 12:46; 13:55; Mark 6:3; John 2:12; 7:3, 5, 10; Acts 1:14; 1 Cor. 9:5; Gal. 1:19)"

Not only have I PROVEN thise men to be the children of another woman - you STILL haven't shown me ONE verse that says MARY had other children.

Still waiting . . .

 

[CoreIssue]

Not only have I PROVEN thise men to be the children of another woman - you STILL haven't shown me ONE verse that says MARY had other children.

Still waiting . . .

All you have proven is you are brainwashed.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

CCC 846--"...salvation comes through ...the [Catholic] Church..." I may not understand a whole lot of Greek or Hebrew..., but as an English teacher, I understand the preposition THROUGH! Or was this doctrine written in Aramaic, so I'm missing something in the translation???

 

[BreadOfLife]

CCC 846--"...salvation comes through ...the [Catholic] Church..." I may not understand a whole lot of Greek or Hebrew..., but as an English teacher, I understand the preposition THROUGH! Or was this doctrine written in Aramaic, so I'm missing something in the translation???

"THROUGH" - not "FROM".

 

[BreadOfLife]

All you have proven is you are brainwashed.

And all YOU have proven is that you are adding to Scripture what is NOT there.

Mary only had ONE child: Jesus.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

Yes, "FROM Christ the Head THROUGH the [Catholic] Church..." Both are necessary according to your church doctrine.

Merriam Webster--"Through: used as a function word to indicate means, agency, or intermediacy: such as a) by means of...."

***We are saved by grace through faith. Both are necessary for salvation.


"Catholic dogma is...that outside the [Catholic] Church there is no salvation."

“No one can have God as Father who does not have the [Catholic] Church as Mother” (St. Cyprian, De unit. 6: PL 4, 519).


***How can you possibly spin these quotes to mean anything other than what they say???

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Come back when you have something remotely intelligent to say . . .

Just for you Breadman, the world is flat and the popes of old believed it.

 

[CoreIssue]

And all YOU have proven is that you are adding to Scripture what is NOT there.

Mary only had ONE child: Jesus.

But that

And all YOU have proven is that you are adding to Scripture what is NOT there.

Mary only had ONE child: Jesus.

Which scripture, the so called Vulgate, maybe?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Just for you Breadman, the world is flat and the popes of old believed it.

And they were wrong.
However - this id not a doctrinal matter, Einstein . . .

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

And they were wrong.
However - this id not a doctrinal matter, Einstein . . .

"Listen to me, I'm the pope, and kill whoever doesn't believe me".
Books outside the Bible are not doctrinal either, so quit Lying!

 

[BreadOfLife]

But that

Which scripture, the so called Vulgate, maybe?

NO translatiom of Scripture.

The modern day idea that Mary had other children has ZERO basis in Scripture, linguistics or history.

Not only is there not ONEsingle extrabiblical orapocryphal document that makes this claim – Your Protestant Fathers were UNANIMOUS in their rejection this idea.

The myth of Mary having “other” children was simply another way of further divorcing oneself from the Catholic Church and had NO basis in reality.