Book Of Revelation, Some Thoughts

[Polt]

AServantofJC, that's a very compelling case that Revelation was written before 70 AD. I wonder if opponents can produce internal evidence that the book was written after 70 AD?

 

[KennethSam]

No debate required when such snide attitude is presented. It speaks of its own vain character in regards to seeking the truth.




Irrelevant, since much of the symbology of Revelation actually originates from other Books of The Bible. No matter how educated one might be with language and figures of speech, Revelation's meaning is lost without the guide of The Holy Spirit and the rest of God's Word.



You've obviously missed the analogy of the usage of the sun, moon, and stars applied to Gen.37 and Israel vs. the events coming with the day of The LORD. With one the sun, moon, and stars is about a heavenly image pattern applied to Israel. But with the stars falling, the moon turning to blood, and the sun turns to darkness, that is given in relation to the day of Christ's return and the END OF THIS PRESENT WORLD, a literal end. Big difference between the two usages in God's Word.



Jesus was speaking not about the generation of His first coming, but the generation that would see those seven signs coming to pass. The last sign He gave was His second coming, which is still expecting today. But of course, orthodox unbelieving Jews would tend to believe differently, especially the offspring living today of that generation of vipers He pointed to back in Matthew 23. So no, the signs Christ gave in Matt.24 did not come to pass in that generation of His first coming.




The seven signs Christ gave in Matt.24 are about the seven seals, seven trumpets, and seven vials of Revelation. Those signs are to come to pass in the LAST generation of this present world, simply because those signs are to be present in the generation living at the time of His second coming. The false lie that those signs were fulfilled at the time of His first coming is a DIRECT lie against Holy Writ, simply because God's Word declares two separate comings of Christ.

Phrases like "at hand", "shortly come to pass" cannot be used to assume a second coming of Christ in the days of His Apostles. Those phrases are never a replacement for the greater detail of signs Christ gave to be watching for leading up to His return. Christ's Apostles showed they expected Christ's return, but did not say anywhere it was to happen in 'their' days. Instead, they referred to the end of this world. But whadda' ya' know, this world has not ended yet, but it will.




The signs for the end of this world Christ gave are for the end of this world. Time did not stop in the 1st century A.D., and nor did this world end as per God's Word. And nor did Christ's second coming happen then either.



The seven heads of Rev.17 are not seven hills of Rome, nor of Jerusalem. They can represent kings though, but as "mountains" they represent powers over the earth, just as the beast Satan first rebelled with in Rev.12:3-4 also had "seven heads".



Not the right application per the Rev.17 example, for before Rome was, there were kingdoms of Babylon, Assyria, Medo-Persia, Egypt, Macedonia, etc. The main one for the end of this world is Gog and Magog (Ezek.38).



The majority of Bible scholars agree that Domitian was in power when John was prisoner at Patmos, and that was around 96 A.D., not 69 A.D. The ruler of Rome in John's day (Domitian) would have to be the 6th in your analogy, not the eighth. So your whole analogy about Roman emperors being the 11 kings falls to the wayside.




The 4th beast of Daniel, the "legs of iron" is indeed pagan Rome. But there's a final piece of the statue image given as the feet of part iron and part clay, which is a 5th beast kingdom upon the earth in the last days (New World Order, "one world government").

Rev.13 declares TWO beasts. The first one in Rev.13:1 comes up out of the 'sea', and is about the joining of nations, peoples, multitudes, and tongues, a working that is happenning in today's world with the globalist movement towards "one world government" (their term, not mine). But the "another beast" of Rev.13:11 forward is about the Antichrist, as he comes up out of the earth. That is Daniel's "little horn", "vile person", the "he" of Dan.9:27 that will make a league in Jerusalem to allow animal sacrifices again, and in the midst of the years made in the league, he will end those sacrifices and setup an image to the beast for all the world to worship.



The rest of the beasts having their dominion taken away and prolonged for a season is about their reinstitution under the final Antichrist who will setup the 5th beast of ten toes of part iron mixed with part clay. That is for our near future, part of today's globalist working to join ALL nations together in a "one world government".



That's mere supposition unsupported by The Bible. It does not have to mean the three kings had all their power taken away, because Rev.17 reveals the ten kings receive power with the beast king, and rule with him for one hour. It is pointing to a change of structure only, not the end of the reign of those three kings. Subdue of Dan.7:24 means to humble. The beast will still have its ten horns.




More supposition on your part. No way to prove Vespian or any of the Roman rulers is that beast king of Rev.17, for we are told that beast king is associated the bottomless pit, i.e., Satan himself.



Believing that would mean turning an eye away from today's events happenning on this earth with the forming up of a final world beast system with globalists plan to join all nations into a "one world government." Even a little child can see that working on the earth today, which is what the Rev.13:1 beast sign is about.





The Babylon harlot of Revelation is JERUSALEM, for that's where Christ pointed to about God's two witnesses in Rev.11:8. But of course, the Jews just don't like that thought spread around, do they?

Unbelieving Jews plan to build another temple in Jerusalem today. Globalists have already declared Jerusalem as "the international city of peace" back in the 1990's. The United Nations (a globalist one world government working) even controls Israel's borders in the holy land today. They have attempted a Peace Plan in Jerusalem many times, already showing us today that "league" of Dan.11 is just around the corner.

The orthodox Jews in Jerusalem have ALREADY been doing passover animal sacrifices on a hill overlooking the Temple Mount for the last several years. The Sanhedrin has started up again in the last couple of years. The Temple materials are prepared, the priesthood is prepared, the impliments for sacrificial worship in the temple are prepared. The temple cloth and special dye is prepared. They're looking for a red heifer for purification. Now try to make that into a Preterist doctrine, would you?[/b][/size]

Prophecies can be very complicated and hard to understand at times that's why we have to always read the Bible and pray for God's wisdom .
There are some sites though that can provide a more comprehensible approach specifically about prophecies

 

[Rocky Wiley]

Hi Charlesj,

Your interpretation of the book of The Revelation of Jesus Christ is correct. The reason is because it agrees with the rest of God's word. My own understanding came about because the bible passages always points out to whom it is directed. It never, for example. says "to the seven churches of the future" it was the "to the seven churches of Asia that existed at that time. In the epistles it either addresses an individual or one of the early churches. Jesus spoke to his disciples and the Jews. He only responded to Gentiles when they spoke to him. He came to the Jews as their Messiah, not the Gentiles.

Food for thought for you. In Matthew 24, Jesus says the temple will be destroyed. The disciples quickly asked him "when will these things be, the sign of thy coming and the end of the age?". They understood what the destruction of the temple meant. Jesus went on to explain all the things that would come about in their generation. Then he says "heaven and earth shall pass away, but my word is forever". Heaven and earth, to the Jew, was the place where God and man did meet, that was on the temple mount. It was the same place that Abraham took Isaac, where Jacob wrestled with God and then Solomon built the temple.

Thank you for sharing the truth as God has given to you.

 

[Joseph77]

QUOTE="charlesj, post: 94060, member: 3317"]Bud:

I am assuming you are being honest in your questions.



When I posted this, I just gave “some thoughts” on the Book of Revelation and the main point I wanted to bring out was the date of the writing of the book and that was during the reign of Vespasian (69-79 A.D.) I also brought out the beginning and ending statements of John, “this must take place shortly & …the time is at hand.” John encloses the Revelation with these statements. He starts with “… it must take place shortly…the time is near” and then gives the revelation… and ends with “..this must take place shortly… the time is at hand.” (Rev 1:1,3 & 22:6, 10)



The time frame of this to take place was the fall of Rome and its power over the church.



The Rev 20 thing of the 1000 years speaks of the Devil said to be bound for this period of time (1000 years).
Why was the Devil bound for 1000 years? To indicate he is perfectly and totally defeated in reference to his use of Rome against the Lord and His Church.
Why is he loosed a “little time?” Because after Rome, there will be others to oppose the Church and that “little time” is the way the future efforts of Satan are covered.
To whom was judgment given? To those who sat on the thrones and who represented the saints who lived to see Rome go under.
What are those who died in faith to Jesus? They are presented as experiencing a resurrection to thrones along with their brothers.
Why is the reign said to be a “thousand years”? To portray its perfectness and completeness. (Like the number 7)
Why is their resurrection designated as the “first”? To differentiate it from the next one he sees – the “second.”
Who are the “rest of the dead”? Those who didn’t die for Jesus, but in the service of the beast.
Why don’t they live again during the “thousand years”? Because that’s an experience only for the triumphant saints – victors over Satan and Rome.
What do they endure? They endure a thousand years of death while the saints reign and then they’re resurrected to die a second time.
What does the second death symbolize? Utter, irrevocable defeat!

May the Lord be with you,
Your servant in Messiah,
Charles Jemeyson
[email protected]
San Antonio, Tx

"Knowledge gained and not shared is knowledge stolen"[/QUOTE
==============================================='old' wisdom? (10 years ago)
Well, as often, part of this at least is right, or may be,
all that is in harmony with Scripture truthfully is.

 

[Joseph77]

Prophecies can be very complicated and hard to understand at times that's why we have to always read the Bible and pray for God's wisdom .
There are some sites though that can provide a more comprehensible approach specifically about prophecies

Yes, some sites do not debate, argue, and /or allow false gospels.... that's true (hard to find, but true).