Biblical Mary reply to behold

[theefaith]

Mother of God Lk 1:43
Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus) Lk 1:30 found favor with God (the salvation lost by Adam) mother of our salvation Lk 2:30
Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21 Lk 1:31-34

Queen of heaven
In the line of david’s kingdom the mother of the king is always queen
Jesus is king Lk 1:32-33
And king of heaven so Mary is queen of heaven

A Royal greeting!

Lk 1:28 is the only place in the Bible where such a greeting takes place!
Mary is of the tribe of Judah and the royal house of David the king!

God himself is greeting Mary thru the instrument of the angel Gabriel!

This is a Royal greeting of the queen of heaven and earth! Queen of the angels and saints! Mary is of the house of king David!

In the line of king David the mother of the king is the queen, as Jesus Christ is the king of heaven and earth and the angels and saints so Mary is the queen of the same! Lk 1:32-33

Lk 1:28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
29 And when she had heard, she was troubled in his word, and thought what manner salutation this was.
30 And the angel said to her, Dread thou not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

Mary is queen in rev 12:1 and heb 4:16
Mother of divine grace

Mary is our spiritual mother


Mary is the Mother of the living in Christ and the new creation!

Genesis 3:20
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus is not just asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so.

Jesus is in the very least making Mary John’s spiritual mother! And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!
What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He proved Mary the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!

As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation!

Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!

Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!

The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!

Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.

Ark of the new covenant!
The dwelling place of God!
God dwelt in Mary’s womb for 9 months, remember the ark was incorruptible wood covered with pure gold signifying Mary’s immaculate purity!
read exodus or any place in the Old Testament where something came into contact with God or was consecrated to the service of God it had to be pure and Holy!
In the ark was the word of God!
In Mary the new ark is the living Word!
In the ark was the mana!
In Mary was the bread come down from heaven! Jn 6
Bethlehem means house to of bread!

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, (Isa 7:14) and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[Kobo]

What God said of your Queen of Heaven

1. The word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the Judeans who lived in the land of Egypt, at Migdol, at Tahpanhes, at Memphis, and in the land of Pathros,
2 “Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: You have seen all the disaster that I brought upon Jerusalem and upon all the cities of Judah. Behold, this day they are a desolation, and no one dwells in them,
3 because of the evil that they committed, provoking me to anger, in that they went to make offerings and serve other gods that they knew not, neither they, nor you, nor your fathers.
4 Yet I persistently sent to you all my servants the prophets, saying, ‘Oh, do not do this abomination that I hate!’
5 But they did not listen or incline their ear, to turn from their evil and make no offerings to other gods.
6 Therefore my wrath and my anger were poured out and kindled in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem, and they became a waste and a desolation, as at this day.
7 And now thus says the Lord God of hosts, the God of Israel: Why do you commit this great evil against yourselves, to cut off from you man and woman, infant and child, from the midst of Judah, leaving you no remnant?
8 Why do you provoke me to anger with the works of your hands, making offerings to other gods in the land of Egypt where you have come to live, so that you may be cut off and become a curse and a taunt among all the nations of the earth?
9 Have you forgotten the evil of your fathers, the evil of the kings of Judah, the evil of their[a] wives, your own evil, and the evil of your wives, which they committed in the land of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
10 They have not humbled themselves even to this day, nor have they feared, nor walked in my law and my statutes that I set before you and before your fathers.

11 “Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: Behold, I will set my face against you for harm, to cut off all Judah.
12 I will take the remnant of Judah who have set their faces to come to the land of Egypt to live, and they shall all be consumed. In the land of Egypt they shall fall; by the sword and by famine they shall be consumed. From the least to the greatest, they shall die by the sword and by famine, and they shall become an oath, a horror, a curse, and a taunt.
13 I will punish those who dwell in the land of Egypt, as I have punished Jerusalem, with the sword, with famine, and with pestilence,
14 so that none of the remnant of Judah who have come to live in the land of Egypt shall escape or survive or return to the land of Judah, to which they desire to return to dwell there. For they shall not return, except some fugitives.”

15 Then all the men who knew that their wives had made offerings to other gods, and all the women who stood by, a great assembly, all the people who lived in Pathros in the land of Egypt, answered Jeremiah:
16 “As for the word that you have spoken to us in the name of the Lord, we will not listen to you.
17 But we will do everything that we have vowed, make offerings to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her, as we did, both we and our fathers, our kings and our officials, in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem. For then we had plenty of food, and prospered, and saw no disaster.
18 But since we left off making offerings to the queen of heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, we have lacked everything and have been consumed by the sword and by famine.”
19 And the women said, “When we made offerings to the queen of heaven and poured out drink offerings to her, was it without our husbands' approval that we made cakes for her bearing her image and poured out drink offerings to her?”

20 Then Jeremiah said to all the people, men and women, all the people who had given him this answer:
21 “As for the offerings that you offered in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem, you and your fathers, your kings and your officials, and the people of the land, did not the Lord remember them? Did it not come into his mind?
22 The Lord could no longer bear your evil deeds and the abominations that you committed. Therefore your land has become a desolation and a waste and a curse, without inhabitant, as it is this day.
23 It is because you made offerings and because you sinned against the Lord and did not obey the voice of the Lord or walk in his law and in his statutes and in his testimonies that this disaster has happened to you, as at this day.”

24 Jeremiah said to all the people and all the women, “Hear the word of the Lord, all you of Judah who are in the land of Egypt.
25 Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: You and your wives have declared with your mouths, and have fulfilled it with your hands, saying, ‘We will surely perform our vows that we have made, to make offerings to the queen of heaven and to pour out drink offerings to her.’ Then confirm your vows and perform your vows!
26 Therefore hear the word of the Lord, all you of Judah who dwell in the land of Egypt: Behold, I have sworn by my great name, says the Lord, that my name shall no more be invoked by the mouth of any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying, ‘As the Lord God lives.’
27 Behold, I am watching over them for disaster and not for good. All the men of Judah who are in the land of Egypt shall be consumed by the sword and by famine, until there is an end of them.
28 And those who escape the sword shall return from the land of Egypt to the land of Judah, few in number; and all the remnant of Judah, who came to the land of Egypt to live, shall know whose word will stand, mine or theirs.
29 This shall be the sign to you, declares the Lord, that I will punish you in this place, in order that you may know that my words will surely stand against you for harm:
30 Thus says the Lord, Behold, I will give Pharaoh Hophra king of Egypt into the hand of his enemies and into the hand of those who seek his life, as I gave Zedekiah king of Judah into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, who was his enemy and sought his life.”​

 

[theefaith]

What God said of your Queen of Heaven

1. The word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the Judeans who lived in the land of Egypt, at Migdol, at Tahpanhes, at Memphis, and in the land of Pathros,
2 “Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: You have seen all the disaster that I brought upon Jerusalem and upon all the cities of Judah. Behold, this day they are a desolation, and no one dwells in them,
3 because of the evil that they committed, provoking me to anger, in that they went to make offerings and serve other gods that they knew not, neither they, nor you, nor your fathers.
4 Yet I persistently sent to you all my servants the prophets, saying, ‘Oh, do not do this abomination that I hate!’
5 But they did not listen or incline their ear, to turn from their evil and make no offerings to other gods.
6 Therefore my wrath and my anger were poured out and kindled in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem, and they became a waste and a desolation, as at this day.
7 And now thus says the Lord God of hosts, the God of Israel: Why do you commit this great evil against yourselves, to cut off from you man and woman, infant and child, from the midst of Judah, leaving you no remnant?
8 Why do you provoke me to anger with the works of your hands, making offerings to other gods in the land of Egypt where you have come to live, so that you may be cut off and become a curse and a taunt among all the nations of the earth?
9 Have you forgotten the evil of your fathers, the evil of the kings of Judah, the evil of their[a] wives, your own evil, and the evil of your wives, which they committed in the land of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
10 They have not humbled themselves even to this day, nor have they feared, nor walked in my law and my statutes that I set before you and before your fathers.

11 “Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: Behold, I will set my face against you for harm, to cut off all Judah.
12 I will take the remnant of Judah who have set their faces to come to the land of Egypt to live, and they shall all be consumed. In the land of Egypt they shall fall; by the sword and by famine they shall be consumed. From the least to the greatest, they shall die by the sword and by famine, and they shall become an oath, a horror, a curse, and a taunt.
13 I will punish those who dwell in the land of Egypt, as I have punished Jerusalem, with the sword, with famine, and with pestilence,
14 so that none of the remnant of Judah who have come to live in the land of Egypt shall escape or survive or return to the land of Judah, to which they desire to return to dwell there. For they shall not return, except some fugitives.”

15 Then all the men who knew that their wives had made offerings to other gods, and all the women who stood by, a great assembly, all the people who lived in Pathros in the land of Egypt, answered Jeremiah:
16 “As for the word that you have spoken to us in the name of the Lord, we will not listen to you.
17 But we will do everything that we have vowed, make offerings to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her, as we did, both we and our fathers, our kings and our officials, in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem. For then we had plenty of food, and prospered, and saw no disaster.
18 But since we left off making offerings to the queen of heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, we have lacked everything and have been consumed by the sword and by famine.”
19 And the women said, “When we made offerings to the queen of heaven and poured out drink offerings to her, was it without our husbands' approval that we made cakes for her bearing her image and poured out drink offerings to her?”

20 Then Jeremiah said to all the people, men and women, all the people who had given him this answer:
21 “As for the offerings that you offered in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem, you and your fathers, your kings and your officials, and the people of the land, did not the Lord remember them? Did it not come into his mind?
22 The Lord could no longer bear your evil deeds and the abominations that you committed. Therefore your land has become a desolation and a waste and a curse, without inhabitant, as it is this day.
23 It is because you made offerings and because you sinned against the Lord and did not obey the voice of the Lord or walk in his law and in his statutes and in his testimonies that this disaster has happened to you, as at this day.”

24 Jeremiah said to all the people and all the women, “Hear the word of the Lord, all you of Judah who are in the land of Egypt.
25 Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: You and your wives have declared with your mouths, and have fulfilled it with your hands, saying, ‘We will surely perform our vows that we have made, to make offerings to the queen of heaven and to pour out drink offerings to her.’ Then confirm your vows and perform your vows!
26 Therefore hear the word of the Lord, all you of Judah who dwell in the land of Egypt: Behold, I have sworn by my great name, says the Lord, that my name shall no more be invoked by the mouth of any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying, ‘As the Lord God lives.’
27 Behold, I am watching over them for disaster and not for good. All the men of Judah who are in the land of Egypt shall be consumed by the sword and by famine, until there is an end of them.
28 And those who escape the sword shall return from the land of Egypt to the land of Judah, few in number; and all the remnant of Judah, who came to the land of Egypt to live, shall know whose word will stand, mine or theirs.
29 This shall be the sign to you, declares the Lord, that I will punish you in this place, in order that you may know that my words will surely stand against you for harm:
30 Thus says the Lord, Behold, I will give Pharaoh Hophra king of Egypt into the hand of his enemies and into the hand of those who seek his life, as I gave Zedekiah king of Judah into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, who was his enemy and sought his life.”​

our queen and of heaven was alive at the time of Christ and is the mother of Christ

the one one the times of the prophet was a counterfeit
Satan loves counterfeits

THE Holy Church justly honors the great Virgin Mary, and would have her honored by all men with the glorious title of queen, because she has been elevated to the dignity of mother of the King of kings. If the Son is king, says St. Athan- asius, his mother must necessarily be considered and entitled queen. From the moment that Mary consented, adds St. Bernardine of Sienna, to become the mother of the Eternal Word, she merited the title of queen of the world and all creatures. f If the flesh of Mary, says St. Arnold, abbot, was the flesh of Jesus, how can the moth er be separated from the Son in his kingdom?

The eternal Father constituted Jesus Christ king of justice, and therefore made him the universal judge of the world; hence the prophet sang: & “Give to the king thy judgment, Oh God; and to the king s son thy justice.” Here a learned interpreter takes up the subject, and says: Oh Lord, thou hast given to thy Son thy justice, because thou hast given to the mother of the king thy mercy And St. Bonaventure happily varies the passage above quoted by saying: Givetothekingthyjudgment,OhGod, and to his mother thy mercy. || Ernest, Arch bishop of Prague, also says, that the eternal Father has given to the Son the office of judging and punishing, and to the mother the office of queen of mercy and grace!

 

[theefaith]

A Royal greeting!

Lk 1:28 is the only place in the Bible where such a greeting takes place!
Mary is of the tribe of Judah and the royal house of David the king!

God himself is greeting Mary thru the instrument of the angel Gabriel!

This is a Royal greeting of the queen of heaven and earth! Queen of the angels and saints! Mary is of the house of king David!

In the line of king David the mother of the king is the queen, as Jesus Christ is the king of heaven and earth and the angels and saints so Mary is the queen of the same! Lk 1:32-33

Lk 1:28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
29 And when she had heard, she was troubled in his word, and thought what manner salutation this was.
30 And the angel said to her, Dread thou not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

 

[theefaith]

Mother of God Lk 1:43
Immaculate conception (sinless) gen 3:15 enmity or total war none of satans works are found in Mary
Also Lk 1:28 full of grace lk 1:49 great things plural (immaculate conception of Mary and the miraculous conception of Jesus) Lk 1:30 found favor with God (the salvation lost by Adam) mother of our salvation Lk 2:30
Perpetual Virgin Isa 7:14 matt 1:21 Lk 1:31-34

Queen of heaven
In the line of david’s kingdom the mother of the king is always queen
Jesus is king Lk 1:32-33
And king of heaven so Mary is queen of heaven

A Royal greeting!

Lk 1:28 is the only place in the Bible where such a greeting takes place!
Mary is of the tribe of Judah and the royal house of David the king!

God himself is greeting Mary thru the instrument of the angel Gabriel!

This is a Royal greeting of the queen of heaven and earth! Queen of the angels and saints! Mary is of the house of king David!

In the line of king David the mother of the king is the queen, as Jesus Christ is the king of heaven and earth and the angels and saints so Mary is the queen of the same! Lk 1:32-33

Lk 1:28 And the angel entered to her, and said, Hail, full of grace; the Lord is with thee; blessed be thou among women.
29 And when she had heard, she was troubled in his word, and thought what manner salutation this was.
30 And the angel said to her, Dread thou not, Mary, for thou hast found grace with God.

Mary is queen in rev 12:1 and heb 4:16
Mother of divine grace


Mary is our spiritual mother


Mary is the Mother of the living in Christ and the new creation!

Genesis 3:20
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

John 19:26-27
When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith has he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.

Jesus is not just asking John to care for His mother, if so He would have said so.

Jesus is in the very least making Mary John’s spiritual mother! And if the apostle John needs a spiritual mother so do we!
What is the family of God without a mother? The mother is the heart of the family! Jesus said I will not leave you orphans! Jn 14:18 He proved Mary the mother of one disciple then He does so for all disciples!

As eve was the mother of all the living in the first creation, gen 3:20 so Mary is the mother of all those who live in Christ and the new creation!

Rev 12:17 our spiritual mother!

Rachel is spiritual mother of Israel!
A type of Mary as spiritual mother of Christians!

The 12 sons of Jacob have 4 biological mothers, but Rachel is the spiritual mother of all Israel!

Matt 2:18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are no more.

Ark of the new covenant!
The dwelling place of God!
God dwelt in Mary’s womb for 9 months, remember the ark was incorruptible wood covered with pure gold signifying Mary’s immaculate purity!
read exodus or any place in the Old Testament where something came into contact with God or was consecrated to the service of God it had to be pure and Holy!
In the ark was the word of God!
In Mary the new ark is the living Word!
In the ark was the mana!
In Mary was the bread come down from heaven! Jn 6
Bethlehem means house to of bread!

Lk 1:35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Matt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, (Isa 7:14) and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

Jn 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[Matthias]

When is the first time someone is recorded praying to Mary and / or instructing followers of Jesus to pray to her?

 

[Matthias]

When is the first time someone is recorded praying to Mary and / or instructing followers of Jesus to pray to her?

”The oldest KNOWN prayer to Mary is called the ‘Sub Tuum Prasidium’, found in Egypt on a papyrus fragment & dating to the mid-200’s.”

x.com

x.com

I haven’t verified whether what the Catholic said is true or not, but I’ll take it at face value for now that it is true.

Highly significant to me, and completely irrelevant to Catholics, is that prayer to Mary is not recorded in scripture.

 

[Verily]

What God said of your Queen of Heaven

​

1. The word that came to Jeremiah concerning all the Judeans who lived in the land of Egypt, at Migdol, at Tahpanhes, at Memphis, and in the land of Pathros,​

2 “Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: You have seen all the disaster that I brought upon Jerusalem and upon all the cities of Judah. Behold, this day they are a desolation, and no one dwells in them,​

3 because of the evil that they committed, provoking me to anger, in that they went to make offerings and serve other gods that they knew not, neither they, nor you, nor your fathers.​

4 Yet I persistently sent to you all my servants the prophets, saying, ‘Oh, do not do this abomination that I hate!’​

5 But they did not listen or incline their ear, to turn from their evil and make no offerings to other gods.​

6 Therefore my wrath and my anger were poured out and kindled in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem, and they became a waste and a desolation, as at this day.​

7 And now thus says the Lord God of hosts, the God of Israel: Why do you commit this great evil against yourselves, to cut off from you man and woman, infant and child, from the midst of Judah, leaving you no remnant?​

8 Why do you provoke me to anger with the works of your hands, making offerings to other gods in the land of Egypt where you have come to live, so that you may be cut off and become a curse and a taunt among all the nations of the earth?​

9 Have you forgotten the evil of your fathers, the evil of the kings of Judah, the evil of their[a] wives, your own evil, and the evil of your wives, which they committed in the land of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?​

10 They have not humbled themselves even to this day, nor have they feared, nor walked in my law and my statutes that I set before you and before your fathers.​

​

11 “Therefore thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: Behold, I will set my face against you for harm, to cut off all Judah.​

12 I will take the remnant of Judah who have set their faces to come to the land of Egypt to live, and they shall all be consumed. In the land of Egypt they shall fall; by the sword and by famine they shall be consumed. From the least to the greatest, they shall die by the sword and by famine, and they shall become an oath, a horror, a curse, and a taunt.​

13 I will punish those who dwell in the land of Egypt, as I have punished Jerusalem, with the sword, with famine, and with pestilence,​

14 so that none of the remnant of Judah who have come to live in the land of Egypt shall escape or survive or return to the land of Judah, to which they desire to return to dwell there. For they shall not return, except some fugitives.”​

​

15 Then all the men who knew that their wives had made offerings to other gods, and all the women who stood by, a great assembly, all the people who lived in Pathros in the land of Egypt, answered Jeremiah:​

16 “As for the word that you have spoken to us in the name of the Lord, we will not listen to you.​

17 But we will do everything that we have vowed, make offerings to the queen of heaven and pour out drink offerings to her, as we did, both we and our fathers, our kings and our officials, in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem. For then we had plenty of food, and prospered, and saw no disaster. ​

18 But since we left off making offerings to the queen of heaven and pouring out drink offerings to her, we have lacked everything and have been consumed by the sword and by famine.”​

19 And the women said, “When we made offerings to the queen of heaven and poured out drink offerings to her, was it without our husbands' approval that we made cakes for her bearing her image and poured out drink offerings to her?”​

​

20 Then Jeremiah said to all the people, men and women, all the people who had given him this answer: ​

21 “As for the offerings that you offered in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem, you and your fathers, your kings and your officials, and the people of the land, did not the Lord remember them? Did it not come into his mind? ​

22 The Lord could no longer bear your evil deeds and the abominations that you committed. Therefore your land has become a desolation and a waste and a curse, without inhabitant, as it is this day. ​

23 It is because you made offerings and because you sinned against the Lord and did not obey the voice of the Lord or walk in his law and in his statutes and in his testimonies that this disaster has happened to you, as at this day.”​

​

24 Jeremiah said to all the people and all the women, “Hear the word of the Lord, all you of Judah who are in the land of Egypt. ​

25 Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: You and your wives have declared with your mouths, and have fulfilled it with your hands, saying, ‘We will surely perform our vows that we have made, to make offerings to the queen of heaven and to pour out drink offerings to her.’ Then confirm your vows and perform your vows! ​

26 Therefore hear the word of the Lord, all you of Judah who dwell in the land of Egypt: Behold, I have sworn by my great name, says the Lord, that my name shall no more be invoked by the mouth of any man of Judah in all the land of Egypt, saying, ‘As the Lord God lives.’ ​

27 Behold, I am watching over them for disaster and not for good. All the men of Judah who are in the land of Egypt shall be consumed by the sword and by famine, until there is an end of them. ​

28 And those who escape the sword shall return from the land of Egypt to the land of Judah, few in number; and all the remnant of Judah, who came to the land of Egypt to live, shall know whose word will stand, mine or theirs. ​

29 This shall be the sign to you, declares the Lord, that I will punish you in this place, in order that you may know that my words will surely stand against you for harm: ​

30 Thus says the Lord, Behold, I will give Pharaoh Hophra king of Egypt into the hand of his enemies and into the hand of those who seek his life, as I gave Zedekiah king of Judah into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, who was his enemy and sought his life.”​

I like this part here, reminds me of "oral tradition" or out of their own mouths to do as was passed on to them as it pertains to the Queen of heaven

Jerm 44:17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.

Its a thing pagans do which is to take saints and attached their pagan stuff to them. Shown here also

Acts 14:12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.

Acts 14:13 Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.

Acts 14:14-15 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein

Mary would probably be cringing that she has a pagan name attached to her.

 

[Matthias]

”The oldest KNOWN prayer to Mary is called the ‘Sub Tuum Prasidium’, found in Egypt on a papyrus fragment & dating to the mid-200’s.”

x.com

x.com

I haven’t verified whether what the Catholic said is true or not, but I’ll take it at face value for now that it is true.

Highly significant to me, and completely irrelevant to Catholics, is that prayer to Mary is not recorded in scripture.

“Some people might think that the oldest prayer to the Blessed Virgin Mary would be the hail Mary, but it’s not; the Sub Tuum Praesidium is an ancient Marian prayer of the early Church, the oldest known prayer to Our Lady. The oldest version of this prayer is in Greek on an Egyptian papyrus dating back to the third century. The Latin translation dates from the 11th century amd was likely made from the Greek.”

Sub Tuum Praesidium (Ancient Prayer to Our Lady) – Knights of The Holy Eucharist

www.knightsoftheholyeucharist.com

Confirmation from the Knights of the Holy Eucharist. That’s two Catholic witnesses to the earliest known prayer to Mary. I‘m satisfied and consider that to be sufficient.

Third century Christianity had come a long way from 1st century Christianity in many aspects. I encourage all Christians (and interested non-Christians) to read about and track the post-biblical doctrinal developments in the early church.

 

[Matthias]

From my X / Twitter “For you” feed this morning:

”If your friend has questions about Mary, don’t send them this thread

Read this guide first

I made this to help Catholics have better conversations about the faith.”

x.com

x.com

Sounds good. I’m all for better conversations.

“Want to win souls for Christ?

Learn the tactics they don’t teach you at your parish:

* How to have conversations that actually start to change someone’s mind

*The 9 key arguments you can use with anyone to prove the Catholic faith is reasonable

*The exact approach we used in ministry to successfully bring our friends to Jesus

Important: The Battle Plan is meant to help you bring your friends and loved ones to Catholicism. DO NOT download this if all of your friends are already Catholic!”

Well, let’s find out what “The Battle Plan” (the title of the guide) is. I signed up to receive it and it just arrived in my in-box a few minutes ago.

***

Know your audience. Reading the “battle plan” - the “tactics” - my audience will (or may) come at me with will help me (and other interested non-Catholics) to do that.

 

[Matthias]

The Battle Plan. Read.

That was good. Really good. I would recommend it first and foremost to Catholics. It’s painfully obvious that the Catholics I’ve interacted with on the forum either haven’t read it or, if they have, have totally disregarded it.

I would also recommend it to non-Catholics.

I’m saving it and will reread it. It has value to me. I extend my thanks here to the author.

***

One recurring thought I had as I read the guide: Why aren’t they taught this by their parish?

 

[Matthias]

This is interesting. I can unsubscribe from emails sent by the author of the Battle Plan at any time, but why would I want to do that? He thinks I’m a Catholic, an assumption on his part. He didn’t ask if I was when I signed up and he hasn’t asked me since signing up if I am or not. I certainly would tell him I’m not if he ever did ask me. I’m continuing to receive valuable intel (insight) from him, and Catholics (as well as non-Catholics) can too.

I received the following communication in my in-box a few minutes ago. It isn’t marked “Private” or “Do not share with others.” I feel comfortable sharing it with my readers:

”I get your struggle.

I know what you’ve tried to get your friend to see the truth of Catholicism ...

… and I know why it didn’t work.

Problem 1: You can’t answer their questions

You may have tried looking up the answer on Catholic Answers or in the Catechism but no matter what you say it isn’t working.

That’s because you need to answer their ACTUAL question.

Every objection comes down to one of three things: Do you believe in God? Do you believe in Jesus? Do you believe in the Catholic Church?

Problem 2: Your relationship is damaged because of the debate

You’ve probably tried explaining Catholic beliefs calmly. And I’m sure you’ve done a good job.

The problem is, sometimes you can talk someone OUT of converting!

Whether it’s a debate (‘I think ...’) or a discussion (‘I feel ...’) You need to listen more than you speak.

Problem 3: They are interested in Catholicism but you don’t know what to do

Most people’s first instinct is to invite their friend to Mass.

That’s a mistake.

Mass is for fully initiated Catholics (the first half is for formal inquirers)

Mass is not for evangelization! It is certainly not a one-size-fits-all solution for an interested non-Catholic

You need to learn the process of conversion and adjust your approach for each stage.

Everyone goes through 5 stages: Trust, curiosity, openness, seeking, discipleship.”

The rest of the email is about a course which he offers, which isn’t free. Anyone interested in taking the course can find details about it at his website. It’s public information.

 

[Matthias]

This is a good battle plan. If it were more widely implemented I think it would be fair to suggest that there would be more conversions to Catholicism.

 

[Matthias]

Why would a Catholic who knows that I’m a Jewish monotheist want me to convert to Catholicism?

The Catholic knows that his deity isn’t my deity. I know it too. That’s common ground. The Catholic, sincerely concerned for my eternal well-being, wants me to have for my deity the deity whom the Catholic has for his or her deity. That’s not difficult to understand and it’s easy to appreciate. When a Catholic approaches me that way, the Catholic has my attention. A real conversation can take place between us. I’ll reexamine, reevaluate, reconsider. Will the Catholic do the same? (Not very likely if the Catholic is committed to following the Battle Plan.)

When a Catholic approaches me with berating and belittling language, he or she has given up on converting me to Catholicism; the Battle Plan abandoned.

If the Catholic were ever to tell me that trinitarianism isn’t a salvation issue then (after recovering from the shock) the conversation would take a very different course.

[Protestants should feel free to replace “Catholic” and “Catholicism” with “trinitarian” and “Protestantism”. Not all Protestants are trinitarian but the majority of them are. My comments would remain the same.]

 

[Matthias]

Have Catholics ever failed to answer the “ACTUAL“ questions I’ve asked? Yes.

Has a Catholic ever talked me out of converting to Catholicism because of that? Yes.

Do I want Catholics to listen more than they speak? Yes.

The Battle Plan author is on to something. He’s on to his people and he’s on to me.

 

[Matthias]

“Every objection (to converting and becoming a Catholic) comes down to three things” - the author of the Battle Plan tells me / us:

Q. Do I believe in God? Yes.

Q. Do I believe in Jesus? Yes.

Q. Do I believe in the Catholic Church? No.

In light of that, where should the Catholic start with me? Catholics at this level of conversation almost always get this one wrong. (Catholic clergy gets it right, every time.)

 

[Matthias]

Am I open to providing Catholics with information they should find useful in getting to know me, their audience, better? Yes.

Is the Catholic interested in having that information and using it to help them evangelize me? At this level of conversation, seldom. (That tells me something, whether the Catholic realizes it or not; and they should.)

With that in mind, what is the probability of my conversion to Catholicism happening on a typical internet discussion forum? Low.

***

No interest in a person’s background / story + treating a person obnoxiously = no sale.

A lesson from the Battle Plan. Catholics, learn the lesson. Non-Catholics, learn the lesson.

The lesson isn’t only for trinitarians. Non-trinitarians, learn the lesson.

***

 

[Matthias]

Matthias talks to the wind, but not without purpose. To forget that is to write me off, and to write me off is to abandon the Catholic / trinitarian Battle Plan in dealing with me, and in dealing with others.

 

[Matthias]

Q. Where is the best place to find potential converts to Christianity?

A. Wherever non-Christians are found.

Q. Where are non-Christians found on this internet discussion forum?

We should think carefully before answering that question.

I’m restricted (by creed, by registration choice and by administration approval) to posting in non-Christian forums. My target audience is found in those few forums, not in the forums marked “Christians Only”.

 

[Matthias]

“Most people’s first instinct is to invite their friend to Mass. That’s a mistake.” - our Catholic author shares with Catholics, and now by extension through me to our readers.

Have Catholics ever invited me to Mass? Yes. Many times.

Have I ever gone to Mass? Yes. Many times. [I was even allowed to speak to Catholics from the lecturn at funeral Mass. Once. At the request of my wife’s family and with the approval of the priest. (It caused a minor scandal. The deacon accidentally gave me the wrong document to speak from, and I did.)]

The “mistake” has been made, and repeated multiple times. That‘s all bridge under the water now. How should the Catholic proceed with me in light of that? Can the Catholic desiring my conversion find a way to overcome the “mistake“ made by other Catholics? Does he or she even have any desire to attempt it?

P.S.

I had a potential second opportunity to speak at a funeral Mass a few years later. My wife’s family discussed it and was divided over the matter. After consulting with the parish priest, they decided it would probably be in the best interest of everyone if I attended but had no role in the service. They compassionately asked me if that decision would offend me. I told them that it wouldn’t, and it didn’t. (RIP my father-in-law and mother-in-law.)

I harbor no animosity toward Catholics.