Bible alone

[theefaith]

Neither does the RCC get a vote - or authority over men.

it’s a kingdom covenant based on obedience to hierarchical authority established by Christ In peter and the apostles

 

[theefaith]

Which is why the RCC cannot be relied upon to properly limit their own authority.



Different subject. Feel free to start another thread.

Authority is from God nor men

 

[CadyandZoe]

You didn't address the fact that Nicodemus wasn't being told "You understand only because you're born again" lol and how it isn't what's taught anywhere.

Nicodemus confesses his belief that Jesus is sent from God, recognizing this reality from the kinds of things Jesus does. Jesus remarks that only those who have been born again can recognize (see) the kingdom of God.

 

[theefaith]

1. So, you believe people whose sins had not been removed by the blood of Jesus (New Covenant) and who were not baptized into Christ were sons of God? 1 John says "God gave His Son that we might live through Him"--before His Son was given, no one lived through Him. As it says, again, the men of faith who came prior to the New Covenant were just, but not perfect, and were only perfected with the advent of the New Covenant and by the blood which "perfects once for all those being sanctified".

2. Yes, "the righteousness of God... attested to by the Law and Prophets"--that doesn't mean, of necessity, it had already happened.


When doesn't it? lol Without using Scripture to understand Scripture you have no context.

“Faith alone” is not found prophecy or in the teaching of the apostles
Faith and sacraments are found in both

 

[theefaith]

Nicodemus confesses his belief that Jesus is sent from God, recognizing this reality from the kinds of things Jesus does. Jesus remarks that only those who have been born again can recognize (see) the kingdom of God.

Enter not see
kjv
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[theefaith]

And it’s a covenant not a bible study
Must be an outward sign
A sacrament
A ritual
The promise of the father

 

[GracePeace]

Yes, that is what I believe. You see, Paul helps us to see that salvation was always going to be on the basis of God's grace and always accompanied by faith. And though those living prior to Jesus didn't know how God would accomplish this, they believed in God's promises anyway. The blood of Jesus applies to every believer who ever lived, including those who were born before the cross and those who lived after the cross.

I see where you'd want to say this, but doesn't Scripture prohibit it? Hebrews 11:40 and Hebrews 12:23 say the blood didn't get applied until the time the New Covenant was put in place. Galatians 3 concurs that those under Law did not have the faith that put them "in Christ". Something to think about I'd say.

As you say, they were perfected with the advent of the New Covenant. But, they were justified BECAUSE they had already been born again.

No, they were justified (declared in right standing with God) by faith, but that does not mean "born of God". Those who are baptized into Christ, a New Testament institution, are born of God according to Galatians 3.

"Scripture interprets scripture?"
This is a misnomer since, in fact, scripture is written material and can't interpret anything; people interpret scripture. Interpretation is a mental activity performed by skilled and unskilled exegetes alike. The essential question is the proper method.

And yes, the entire Bible informs the broader context. And, most importantly, no passage of scripture will contradict another passage. I'm sure we both agree on that point. That having been said, the slogan "scripture interprets scripture" denotes an unfruitful hermeneutical method whereby unrelated statements from one passages are unnaturally and unnecessarily inserted into another passage, causing a misunderstanding of the passage at hand.

The insertion of water baptism into John 3 is a good example of this mistake. One true idea (water baptism) is superimposed over another true idea (born of the spirit) resulting in a false idea (baptismal regeneration). This result does not commend the practice. Better to understand each passage on its own first, then bring them together if necessary.

What do you think?

Well, technically, yes, someone could emptily claim "I'm letting Scripture interpret itself" but I don't think that that was what I did.

 

[GracePeace]

Nicodemus confesses his belief that Jesus is sent from God, recognizing this reality from the kinds of things Jesus does. Jesus remarks that only those who have been born again can recognize (see) the kingdom of God.

I don't read that as Jesus affirming he is born again but that Nicodemus must be born again because he's wondering how he can enter God's Kingdom--he knows Who to ask.
Again, that's not taught anywhere else in Scripture (you get regenerated first, then you're able to believe) as I believe had been substantiated.

 

[GracePeace]

“Faith alone” is not found prophecy or in the teaching of the apostles
Faith and sacraments are found in both

Have you already forgotten that I reject "faith alone" (based on Romans 2:6-16, Galatians 6:6-10 for instance)?

 

[Wrangler]

it’s a kingdom covenant based on obedience to hierarchical authority established by Christ In peter and the apostles

Listen, it is God through Christ not Christ through Peter.

 

[Philip James]

Listen, it is God through Christ not Christ through Peter.

You don't think Christ operates through Peter and the apostles?

Thus should one regard us: as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.

Peace be with you!

 

[Wrangler]

Authority is from God nor men

Agreed. Authority is not from the RCC.

 

[Wrangler]

You don't think Christ operates through Peter and the apostles?

Thus should one regard us: as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God.

Peace be with you!

Operated. He did work through Peter and the Apostles. I think the Spirit of God operates through many people living today. Are you a Roman Catholic?

The other day I posted Acts 3:21, which states Jesus is in heaven now and must remain there until the day of universal restoration. Someone rejected the Scriptural notion of universal restoration. You seem to reject where Jesus is and what he is doing now. Is that accurate?


He is in heaven now and must remain there until the day of universal restoration comes—the restoration which in ancient times God announced through the holy prophets.
Acts 3:21 (Voice)

 

[theefaith]

Listen, it is God through Christ not Christ through Peter.

Ok God thru Christ thru Peter and the apostles

 

[GracePeace]

@thee

“Faith alone” is not found prophecy or in the teaching of the apostles
Faith and sacraments are found in both

Have you already forgotten that I reject "faith alone" (based on Romans 2:6-16, Galatians 6:6-10 for instance)?

Infant-Baptized Catholic--my understanding of Christianity was influenced by Catholicism. ;) lol

 

[theefaith]

@thee


Infant-Baptized Catholic--my understanding of Christianity was influenced by Catholicism. ;) lol

Ok

 

[CadyandZoe]

Enter not see
kjv
Jn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Yes. In verse 5 Jesus is talking about entering the kingdom of God. But in verse 3, he is talking about recognizing the kingdom of God.

3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

 

[CadyandZoe]

I see where you'd want to say this, but doesn't Scripture prohibit it? Hebrews 11:40 and Hebrews 12:23 say the blood didn't get applied until the time the New Covenant was put in place. Galatians 3 concurs that those under Law did not have the faith that put them "in Christ". Something to think about I'd say.


No, they were justified (declared in right standing with God) by faith, but that does not mean "born of God". Those who are baptized into Christ, a New Testament institution, are born of God according to Galatians 3.


Well, technically, yes, someone could emptily claim "I'm letting Scripture interpret itself" but I don't think that that was what I did.

In Romans 8, Paul draws a straight line from "being called" to "being glorified." No one whom God justified will fail to be glorified. Romans 8:28-30

We both agree that those whom God justified, before the cross, were not yet "perfected" but wouldn't you agree that they are now?

 

[CadyandZoe]

I don't read that as Jesus affirming he is born again but that Nicodemus must be born again because he's wondering how he can enter God's Kingdom--he knows Who to ask.
Again, that's not taught anywhere else in Scripture (you get regenerated first, then you're able to believe) as I believe had been substantiated.

Many believers have incomplete knowledge of the Gospel, as was apparent by their conversation. At the same time though, Jesus raised the subject of being born again immediately after Nicodemus confession of faith.

 

[Wrangler]

Ok God thru Christ thru Peter and the apostles

No for that is unnecessarily limiting. God chose to limit those he saved through Christ. This does not necessarily translate to Jesus limiting himself through Peter.