'Because God said so!'

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Strat

Member
Mar 25, 2012
784
29
28
Sin seems to be built into creation...ask yourself why

In regard to food,why is it that cabbage,lettuce or brocoli does not taste as good and satisfying as Krispy Kreme donuts,Pizza or Fried Chicken ? why do calorie dense foods tast good while something you could eat a truckload of and not gain a pound not taste as good.....there is a reason.

In regard to money,why doesn't being flat broke and busted feel as good as having money in the bank and the bills paid...why doesn't poverty and want feel as good as wealth and prosperity ? there is a reason.I have always heard that wealth is the enemy of faith....but my response is if you know God is God then you know he holds your breath in his hand regardless of how much wealth you have.....and a visit to your local graveyard should convince you that life is temporary and you can't take it with you.....just common sense to me.

In regard to sex,why is it that young and beautiful looks better than old and ugly,or young and ugly,why does the eye have the ability to sense and appreciate physical beuuty in the first place when we are told it means nothing yet it has such a powerful impact on us ?...why do humans not procreate like plants and pollinate or like some Animals do...once a year the urge hits and then that's it....i have heard endless rants about how sex is this awesome gift from God while for most its is nothing but a troublesome torment that could damn their souls and they would be better off had they never even known anything about it....again there is a reason

In regard to relationships,why are difficult,bitter angry,resentful and cruel people not as much of a joy to deal with as kind,loving,peaceful people are...what purpose do "jerks " realy serve...are they aliens sent here to prepare us for heaven ???? who knows...why does revenge feel good now but the knowledge that they will get theirs perhaps possibly 8,346 years from now does not....God says vengence is mine i will repay but most of us never get to see it....why doesn't obscurity and lonliness feel as good as fame and recognition and appreciation....God calls us to relationships then seems to ask us to step back from them should any benefit to us actually occur.

I have often heard people say suffering and trials prepare one for heaven yet in this world when one wants to prepare for something they usually simulate the conditions the expect to encounter not just the opposite...again their is a reason.

When Jesus said take up your cross he was saying chose pain over pleasure,choose need over abundance,choose emptiness over fullfillment..do i claim to know why ? no i don't,never in a million years.....did Jesus not say that parts of the body could be your enemy ? does the new testement not exalt pain over pleasure from start to finish ?

In Genesis God looked at all he created and said that it was good....then later on you hear about the lust of the eyes yet everything the eye sees including the eye itself was created by God,same with the lust of the flesh...everything the flesh lust after including the flesh itself was created by God....the very fact that i can look at anything and have any regard for it in my heart,desire it,want it,love it or hate it or have any sense or comprehension of any value it may have for better or worse is is a result of God's creation....do i have any answers...none at all.

I remember reading years ago as a foolish young man that thought he knew everything and that there was an answer to everything that the "just shall live by faith"....now as a much older man i realize what the words meant....for some things there are no answers this side of the grave.
 
Jul 6, 2011
447
12
18
I'm really hoping that this thread doesn't turn into another 'homosexuality' thread
The problem is the subject was used as an example in the OP and is a very good example of another reason some people claim to believe but only after the message is compromised.

However there is enough in the Bible to show God says choose Him and His ways to glory rather than ways to death... so 'because God said so' is really people objecting to what God says.
 

Rach1370

New Member
Apr 17, 2010
1,801
112
0
45
Australia
The problem is the subject was used as an example in the OP and is a very good example of another reason some people claim to believe but only after the message is compromised.

However there is enough in the Bible to show God says choose Him and His ways to glory rather than ways to death... so 'because God said so' is really people objecting to what God says.

Please don't get me wrong...I'm all for God's truth...exactly how He has put it down! In fact I'm a big believer in standing up for it. But at what point ...having stood up for a truth again and again...do we then say that we've done all we can...all that God has asked us to. When do we make the decision to back away from what is quickly becoming a fight, and let the Holy Spirit and grace work? Because sometimes I think we are so busy yelling at each other that we simply can't hear what the Spirit is trying to teach us. Say your part, present your opinions, ask you questions....and then stop and pray. I honestly think that at times that is just the wisest thing any of us can do.
 

Winnetou

New Member
Jul 7, 2012
33
0
0
God does not hate the homosexual, God only hates the" sin".

But, and this is my question, based on biblical research, homosexuality itself really a sin like killing or raping a person? I found out that the word "abomination" doesnt mean a sin, It mean a "taboo". The original word which was translated as abomination is in Hebrew TO’EBAH. This word means behaviors
that people in a certain time and place consider tasteless or offensive. Just like the word "taboo" means.

BTW. The holyness code of Leviticus is a JEWISH and NOT A CHRISTIAN law. As Paul said, the law of Moses was fullfilled by our savior Jesus Christ.
 

HammerStone

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Feb 12, 2006
5,113
286
83
37
South Carolina
prayerforums.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I think "Because God said so!" illustrates the limit of understanding the unlimited. At the end of the day, we don't get the whole righteous-all-the-time thing, because we aren't (Job 15:14). We attempt to understand why from our limited understanding of the matter - and I think that is a very much a reaction to prodding from outside of Christianity. Since the time of enlightenment, it's no longer okay to say "I believe" this way. We have this notion in society that it's okay for you to believe, but that doesn't unmake you as a back-country superstitious hick. In modern society, you need to be able to reason or argue your position out with another.

I don't think that's entirely a bad thing. Proverbs 25:2 is one of my favorite verses of the Bible, and I think there is much enjoyment from searching out why God did this or said that.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,779
113
53
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I think "Because God said so!" illustrates the limit of understanding the unlimited. At the end of the day, we don't get the whole righteous-all-the-time thing, because we aren't (Job 15:14). We attempt to understand why from our limited understanding of the matter - and I think that is a very much a reaction to prodding from outside of Christianity. Since the time of enlightenment, it's no longer okay to say "I believe" this way. We have this notion in society that it's okay for you to believe, but that doesn't unmake you as a back-country superstitious hick. In modern society, you need to be able to reason or argue your position out with another.

I don't think that's entirely a bad thing. Proverbs 25:2 is one of my favorite verses of the Bible, and I think there is much enjoyment from searching out why God did this or said that.

I agree. The problem I have is when some Christians refuse to wrestle with the paradoxes. And when they condemn other Christians for thinking about the difficult parts of Christianity and then for being honest about where they are at. Take lying for example; let's say a Christian struggles with the condemnation against lying because he thinks that telling the truth is more harmful than telling white lies. Ok - should we condemn the Christian for loving sin or should we listen to him and understand that is where he is at in his sanctification?
 

Hollyrock

New Member
Nov 17, 2011
471
47
0
USA
We, with our tiny little minds always want to know "Why God Why?" when just because HE SAID SO should be enough. We are a right now society... who has time to wait on the Lord ?
 
Jul 6, 2011
447
12
18
Please don't get me wrong...I'm all for God's truth...exactly how He has put it down! In fact I'm a big believer in standing up for it. But at what point ...having stood up for a truth again and again...do we then say that we've done all we can...all that God has asked us to. When do we make the decision to back away from what is quickly becoming a fight, and let the Holy Spirit and grace work? Because sometimes I think we are so busy yelling at each other that we simply can't hear what the Spirit is trying to teach us. Say your part, present your opinions, ask you questions....and then stop and pray. I honestly think that at times that is just the wisest thing any of us can do.
Agreed :)

Winnetou,
But, and this is my question, based on biblical research, homosexuality itself really a sin like killing or raping a person?
Is Killing or raping a person sin? What does the Bible say?

Yes you will find killing, raping and homosexual practice are all described as error and what the people of God do not do.
 

Winnetou

New Member
Jul 7, 2012
33
0
0
With the phrase "this says the Bible"; or "thou speak the LORD", wars were started, people killed and genocide done. The Nazi pig Hitler considered itself a "divine debtor's agent" (he was a Roman Catholic). Racism like sexism was justified with the Bible so. And it is done certainly today. I hate around homo phobia if the Bible is abused to justify woman hate or racism. I love the Bible too much to accept this!
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,779
113
53
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
aspen2,
That God said is basically .. what God said. God is God, if people cant take what He said as the truth then they arent referringb to God, but a 'god' in their own making subject to people's wisdom and judgment. (this is another example of liberal counterfit christianity)
But on the homosexual issue it is pretty obvious from observable functional anatomy that God is right and homosexuality is wrong. Far from a difficult question, it is a no brainer actually.



Apparently you missed the part of my post that stated " Nor am I claiming that there should be a reason [for God to condemn homosexuality] given.". Therefore, I have already agreed that God does not have to give us a reason.

I know it would be much easier for you to shove me into a nice and neat box, but unfortunately for you, I see that God hates homosexuality and condemns the practice for Christians. In fact, He will punish nonbelievers for all of their unforgiven sins, one day. This has nothing to do with the fact that nonbelievers should be allowed to pursue their sinful choices here on Earth - without judgment from Christians. If their behavior inflicts measurable harm on others then human law may apply - but not Christian law.
 

Winnetou

New Member
Jul 7, 2012
33
0
0
I see that God hates homosexuality and condemns the practice for Christians.

I have my doubts whether God really hates homosexuals or the homosexuality. And why want I to say to you also.
On the one hand, the Bible quotations say nothing about homosexual love relations, but see homosexuality only in connection with shrine prostitution and the averting of God always in the NT. And it also gives, this will surprise you perhaps, also homosexual Christians who take seriously their faith.
And God is on the other hand a God of love. He looks into our heart, only then knows our motives and judges.
We people often condemned what we do not know; or we are irrationally afraid of it.
God is different, he is far better than we as human beings!

In fact, He will punish nonbelievers for all of their unforgiven sins, one day.

So how I have met God, I do not believe this. As said; he looks into our hearts, our motives. And he judges us by what we know and not by what we do not know. I read in the Internet a wonderful short story written by a Christian once years ago. It was called "meeting in the office".
Into this it was about a young man, a Christian, who hates his colleague, a Wicca. He prayed to God around inspiration one evening. God appeared to him and showed him different cultures of the past and presence. And he was admired as a God everywhere. No matter whether as a human or an animal, as a woman or a man. He understood at the end of the dream how full of prejudice he was to his colleague and apologized to her.
Please do not try to stipulate God with your limited knowledge and intellect (which all of us have); what he shall do or let. God knows it better than you or me!

This has nothing to do with the fact that nonbelievers should be allowed to pursue their sinful choices here on Earth - without judgment from Christians. If their behavior inflicts measurable harm on others then human law may apply - but not Christian law.

Being and realizing homosexually; has nothing to do with sin. If you would read the whole chapter and not only some verses, you would understand this.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,779
113
53
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I have my doubts whether God really hates homosexuals or the homosexuality. And why want I to say to you also.
On the one hand, the Bible quotations say nothing about homosexual love relations, but see homosexuality only in connection with shrine prostitution and the averting of God always in the NT. And it also gives, this will surprise you perhaps, also homosexual Christians who take seriously their faith.
And God is on the other hand a God of love. He looks into our heart, only then knows our motives and judges.
We people often condemned what we do not know; or we are irrationally afraid of it.
God is different, he is far better than we as human beings!



So how I have met God, I do not believe this. As said; he looks into our hearts, our motives. And he judges us by what we know and not by what we do not know. I read in the Internet a wonderful short story written by a Christian once years ago. It was called "meeting in the office".
Into this it was about a young man, a Christian, who hates his colleague, a Wicca. He prayed to God around inspiration one evening. God appeared to him and showed him different cultures of the past and presence. And he was admired as a God everywhere. No matter whether as a human or an animal, as a woman or a man. He understood at the end of the dream how full of prejudice he was to his colleague and apologized to her.
Please do not try to stipulate God with your limited knowledge and intellect (which all of us have); what he shall do or let. God knows it better than you or me!



Being and realizing homosexually; has nothing to do with sin. If you would read the whole chapter and not only some verses, you would understand this.

I respect Mel White. I am not here to debate homosexuality within the church. The only point I am arguing is that Christians are not responsible for judging nonbelievers.
 

Winnetou

New Member
Jul 7, 2012
33
0
0
I respect Mel White. I am not here to debate homosexuality within the church. The only point I am arguing is that Christians are not responsible for judging nonbelievers.

They are responsible. Think of the really good advice of Paul:

Romans 2:1 (in German Bible)

And this mean ALL PEOPLE, not only Christians!
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,779
113
53
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
They are responsible. Think of the really good advice of Paul:

Romans 2:1 (in German Bible)

And this mean ALL PEOPLE, not only Christians!

They certainly will be judged by God! The question I am raising is, should they be punished by man?

Remember when Peter tried to stop Jesus from fulfilling His mission? When he tried to stop Jesus from submitting Himself to the slaughter? Jesus told Peter 'Get behind me Satan!' The fact is, people (the Pharisees; Roman authorities; all sinners) will condemn themselves - Christians are not called to judge them.
 
Jul 6, 2011
447
12
18
Winnetou,
With the phrase "this says the Bible"; or "thou speak the LORD", wars were started, people killed and genocide done.
Which of course Christ didn’t say, quite the opposite infact. It just goes to show what can happen when people claim to be speaking for, or acting for God, but aren’t.

I have my doubts whether God really hates homosexuals or the homosexuality.
like you infact. Ok so you don’t believe God and His word.

On the one hand, the Bible quotations say nothing about homosexual love relations, but see homosexuality only in connection with shrine prostitution and the averting of God always in the NT.
Which is of course a lie. Lying is wrong as well according to God’s word. The Bible says nothing about shrine prostitution when it describes as error and wicked, men abandoning the natural relations with women and lying with, and committing indecent acts with men. In fact the Leviticus passages say that what pagans do and not the people of God, and Romans 1 says that’s what people who have turned from God do. ‘Homosexual love’ is not God’s love, its something else the Bible doesn’t say. Same or opposite sex coupling is either/or, there aren’t three sexes
male, female and shrine prostitute. When it is men with men that is condemned it doesn’t matter whether which men or in what context, its error.

According to God’s Biblical testimony what you have just said puts you in the pagan camp.

And God is on the other hand a God of love. He looks into our heart, only then knows our motives and judges.
Which His word says, so why do you think He wont judge according to His word when He says He will?

So how I have met God, I do not believe this.
Then you cant have met God. You must have met a spirit of something else. Christ teaches to love even enemies, He doesn’t say love and approve of what they do. The person in your story should have loved his wiccan friend in the first place, but not wicca.

Being and realizing homosexually; has nothing to do with sin.
Yes it does. Its anatomical dysfunctional so I would suggest God’s purposes are obviously right.
If you would read the whole chapter and not only some verses, you would understand this.
You would need to first be able to read what the verses say without adding your own ideas as you have done.

And this mean ALL PEOPLE, not only Christians!
So does men who abandon natural relations with women and commit indecent acts with men, it means all men regardless of whether they try and excuse themselves by sexuality or shrine prostitution.
In fact the ungodliness and wickedness latter part of Romans 1 is primarily directed at the gentile believers in the church in Rome, Romans 2 is primarily directed at the Jewish believers. However both apply to all people.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,779
113
53
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
BMS,

No offense, but your last post to Winnetou really puts you in a different class......I really wondered about you when you refused to acknowledge my 20 year marriage to a lesbian women - now you have proven your lack of perspective taking, sympathy, empathy, and love........brother - you need Jesus in a MAD WAY. Psychology cannot help - only Jesus can. I know you will dismiss my cry, but reach deep down...deep down...Jesus loves you and will redeem you.
 

Groundzero

Not Afraid To Stand
Jul 20, 2011
819
36
0
30
Australia
After talking about the homosexual issue for 28 pages - I have discovered that there is no reason why God hates homosexuality for Christians - none. The answer is simply 'Because God said so!'. Yet, the Christians I have talked to about this issue feel the need to explain the practical reasons for resisting homosexuality. Not sure why....

I hardly think I need to post verses to support the fact that God sees homosexuality as a sin.

And here's something to ponder: what reason is there that I don't kill someone I don't like? I mean, that's alright by me? So what makes it wrong?
The answer is "Because GOD said so!"

If you remove God from the picture and just try to use reasoning, ANY rule will fall apart because the authority behind it is missing.

Why is murder wrong? Because God said so in the Holy Scriptures.
Why is adultery wrong? Because God said so in the Holy Scriptures.
Why is stealing wrong? Because God said so in the Holy Scriptures.
Why is coveting wrong? Because God said so in the Holy Scriptures.
Why is blaspheming wrong? Because God said so in the Holy Scriptures.
Why is homosexuality wrong? Because God said so in the Holy Scriptures. :D


If God says anything, it's a pretty wise idea to stop what we're doing and pay attention.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,779
113
53
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I hardly think I need to post verses to support the fact that God sees homosexuality as a sin.

And here's something to ponder: what reason is there that I don't kill someone I don't like? I mean, that's alright by me? So what makes it wrong?
The answer is "Because GOD said so!"

If you remove God from the picture and just try to use reasoning, ANY rule will fall apart because the authority behind it is missing.

Why is murder wrong? Because God said so in the Holy Scriptures.
Why is adultery wrong? Because God said so in the Holy Scriptures.
Why is stealing wrong? Because God said so in the Holy Scriptures.
Why is coveting wrong? Because God said so in the Holy Scriptures.
Why is blaspheming wrong? Because God said so in the Holy Scriptures.
Why is homosexuality wrong? Because God said so in the Holy Scriptures. :D


If God says anything, it's a pretty wise idea to stop what we're doing and pay attention.

Your point?

As crazy as your post appears......I think we actually agree.......God condemns homosexuality, so it must be wrong...(gulp)?

Ok then....move along then......nothing to see here....
 
Jul 6, 2011
447
12
18
aspen2,
I need the Jesus Christ whose testimony I have corrected Winnetou with, not the counterfit one of humanism. It is not loving to agree with falsehood and false teaching.

Jesus loves you and will redeem you.
Jesus Christ has redeemed me by faith, but according to His testimony not humanistic feelings.
 

aspen

“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
Apr 25, 2012
14,111
4,779
113
53
West Coast
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
aspen2,
I need the Jesus Christ whose testimony I have corrected Winnetou with, not the counterfit one of humanism. It is not loving to agree with falsehood and false teaching.

Jesus Christ has redeemed me by faith, but according to His testimony not humanistic feelings.

Um...you hardly sound 'redeemed by faith' - on the contrary, you sound terrified;why?