Barna Poll: Most Americans - Including Church Members - Reject the Trinity

[Matthias]

Actually yes it would.

I’m a Jewish monotheist, not a trinitarian. My answer would provide you with how a Jewish monotheist who believes Jesus is the Messiah understands the incident. That is education about Jewish monotheism, not education about the Trinity.

If Jesus is God. and as we have seen, the HS (a seperate entity) is God.

well the trinity is confirmed.

I agree that Jesus is God and the Holy Spirit is God. That doesn’t confirm the Trinity.

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, even the largest branch of unitarianism - of which I’m not a part - agrees that Father, Son and the Holy Spirit is the one God.

It does not matter what historical words of men say.

Would you be in favor of rejecting the trinitarian creeds?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The Hebrew Bible and the New Testament were written by Jewish monotheists. Trinitarianism is built upon those writings.

And?

Did you know the trinity was in the OT?

I don’t agree with that and I doubt that those who recite the trinitarian creeds will agree with you about that.

I am not worried about people who quote some creed.

I am worried about what the word of God says

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You want to debate theology rather than discuss history.

Your posts don't reflect love of history.

Well I understand you do not want to discuss the word. You want to be like the jews and use history to cause Jesus to contradict himself.

Like catholics and jews alike. when people use history instead of the word. it usually is because the word would not support their belief

 

[Matthias]

And?

Did you know the trinity was in the OT?

Do you believe that Moses and the prophets were trinitarians?

I am not worried about people who quote some creed.

I am worried about what the word of God says

The Bible contains the creed of Judaism. It is popularly known as “The Jesus Creed”.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I’m using church history. Why do you believe church history is flawed?

because it was written by men.
It is not inspired
And the catholic church ruled the church for well over 1000 years. and burned any form of anything that went against their theology.

why would we go to uninspired writings which are questionable at best,

and not the inspired words of God that can be trusted

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Do you believe that Moses and the prophets were trinitarians?

I believe Moses met Jesus in the burning bush

I believe Jesus called out to the people. and said come near me, I am the alpha and omega, and the father (father god) and his spirit (holy spirit) have sent me

I believe God (plural) created man in their image.

The Bible contains the creed of Judaism.

No actually it does not. Judaism crucified Christ.

 

[Matthias]

because it was written by men.
It is not inspired

Thanks. So then how do you account for the terminology which is necessary to define the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity being absent from scripture?

And the catholic church ruled the church for well over 1000 years. and burned any form of anything that went against their theology.

why would we go to uninspired writings which are questionable at best,

and not the inspired words of God that can be trusted

I understand that you aren’t opposed to the Trinity. Are you opposed to historical orthodox trinitarianism?

P.S.

In light of the new Board rules which prohibits any member who is registered “Christian” from speaking against orthodoxy, my last question to you places you in a precarious position. You may want to treat it as a rhetorical question. It’s fine with me if you don’t answer it. We can leave it as a question which shows you where my mind is.

 

[Matthias]

I believe Moses met Jesus in the burning bush

Okay. Do you believe Moses was a trinitarian?

 

[Matthias]

because it was written by men.
It is not inspired

I’m calling for church history to be taught in church and in the home to educate people about the Trinity. Are you opposed to that?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thanks. So then how do you account for the terminology which is necessary to define the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity being absent from scripture?

Like the ones I shared.

I will be honest. I do nt follow catholic doctrine. I try to follow the word. so I would no0t know terminology they use

I understand that you aren’t opposed to the Trinity. Are you opposed to historical orthodox trinitarianism?

Is this the topic of the thread, it so I would not know. again, I never studied catholic theology Nor do i trust it

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Okay. Do you believe Moses was a trinitarian?

in what sense?

Did he believe in a plural God who created man in their image?

Ir did he believe in roman catholic trinitarianism?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I’m calling for church history to be taught in church and in the home to educate people about the Trinity. Are you opposed to that?

I would have to look at this history to determine

Again, I would just stick to the word.. Like my second grade teacher did 50 years ago

 

[Rockerduck]

Okay. Do you believe Moses was a trinitarian?

I believe Moses had the Holy Spirit and his writings are inspired, like Psalm 90. Moses talked to God face to Face, which was Jesus. Elohim was in the beginning and is plural.

 

[Matthias]

in what sense?

Do you think Moses, a Jewish monotheist, believed that his God is the Trinity?

Did he believe in a plural God who created man in their image?

Ir did he believe in roman catholic trinitarianism?

Roman Catholic trinitarianism is historical orthodox trinitarianism. I’ve spoken with people who have told me that they believed Moses was a Catholic, but that rejects the constraints of history.

If I were to say to you that Moses was a general and that he won a great victory at the battle of Waterloo you would think me mad. Such a belief would defy the constraints of history.

 

[Matthias]

I would have to look at this history to determine

Just to give me an idea of your perspective on history in general, are you opposed to history being taught to educate people?

Again, I would just stick to the word.. Like my second grade teacher did 50 years ago

 

[Matthias]

I believe Moses had the Holy Spirit and his writings are inspired, like Psalm 90. Moses talked to God face to Face, which was Jesus. Elohim was in the beginning and is plural.

If the Hebrew word elohim is plural, why do you not render it plural in English?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Do you think Moses, a Jewish monotheist, believed that his God is the Trinity?

Your not helping.

Moses believed God created man in THEIR IMAGE (remember, he wrote those words down.,.If he did not believe it, hw would not have wrote those words down.

I have one God. he just exists in three persons.

Moses had the same God

Roman Catholic trinitarianism is historical orthodox trinitarianism. I’ve spoken with people who have told me that they believed Moses was a Catholic, but that rejects the constraints of history.

lol. I could see this sadly

If I were to say to you that Moses was a general and that he won a great victory at the battle of Waterloo you would think me mad. Such a belief would defy the constraints of history.

what battle of waterloo?

is it in the word of God

If so,. you can mark Gods word it happened

if not. Your trusting in what some mad wrong. and it can not be verified, But may be true.. Just not something I would place my eternity on

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If the Hebrew word elohim is plural, why do you not render it plural in English?

Because in the english, Like with many other words.

A word can be plural and singular

and again, I have one God. who is 3 in person.

 

[Matthias]

Your not helping.

I‘m trying to understand why a trinitarian might think a Jewish monotheist who lived in the 14th century B.C. would think of his God not as a Jewish monotheist would but as a trinitarian would.

Moses believed God created man in THEIR IMAGE (remember, he wrote those words down.,.If he did not believe it, hw would not have wrote those words down.

Moses wrote (in Genesis 1:27) that God created man in his image, not in their image.

I take your point that Moses believed what he wrote. He wouldn’t have written it if he didn’t believe it.

I have one God. he just exists in three persons.

Moses had the same God

lol. I could see this sadly

what battle of waterloo?

is it in the word of God

If so,. you can mark Gods word it happened

if not. Your trusting in what some mad wrong. and it can not be verified, But may be true.. Just not something I would place my eternity on

 

[Rockerduck]

If the Hebrew word elohim is plural, why do you not render it plural in English?

Elohim is plural for one God. The translation by Tyndale, and the King James crew, they rendered it LORD, to appease Jewish leaders and not use the name of God at that time, since Elohim is in the first Chapter of Genisis and the second Chapter changed to Adonai Elohim, which is Yahweh.