ScottA
Well-Known Member
Indeed, certain parts of the body of Christ have suffered inactivity and atrophy--even and especially now; and some are completely numb and out of circulation with the lifeblood of Jesus intended for the whole body.
At what point does a believer join the Body of Christ?
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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Agree.
Your comments remind me of of the Vine and the Branches in John chapter fifteen.
Which should be a sobering reminder to body parts that have "poor" circulation. (John 15:6)
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Hey You!
Member
A way to picture what you are saying is, when we are Grafted into the True Vine; we Actively Participate in the Body...
We can agree this happens when we are Born Again. Things always have a way of reverting to Basic Arguments, right?
We can agree that this SHOULD happen at conversion.
Unfortunately, too many view conversion as the end goal rather than the starting point. IMHO
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Sure.
But again, that is what should happen. But a reading of John chapter fifteen reveals that this is not always the case.
Some who are grafted-in produce no fruit. These branches are then removed. (whatever that means)
Even fruit-bearing branches are pruned, to produce MORE fruit. A real indicator of Body life. IMO
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Hey You!
Member
Thanks for saying Sure. But why do you say that's what should happen, since it IS what happens?
@GodsGrace
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St. SteVen said:
Sure.
But again, that is what should happen. But a reading of John chapter fifteen reveals that this is not always the case.
Some who are grafted-in produce no fruit. These branches are then removed. (whatever that means)
Even fruit-bearing branches are pruned, to produce MORE fruit. A real indicator of Body life. IMO
Can a person really be a part of the Body if they are not acting as a body part?
Or at a minimum they are like a limp non-functioning limb. Dead weight.
The 20/80 rule is a common problem in the church. 20% do 80% of the work.
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Sure.
But again, that is what should happen. But a reading of John chapter fifteen reveals that this is not always the case.
Some who are grafted-in produce no fruit. These branches are then removed. (whatever that means)
Even fruit-bearing branches are pruned, to produce MORE fruit. A real indicator of Body life. IMO
Here's what you wrote.
My objection is that not everyone who is grafted in actively participates in the Body.
Can a person really be a part of the Body if they are not acting as a body part?
Or at a minimum they are like a limp non-functioning limb. Dead weight.
The 20/80 rule is a common problem in the church. 20% do 80% of the work.
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Hey You!
Member
Yes Sir, I read your response. But it's not a good reason for me to stop believing 'Grafting into the Body' happens at Justification through Faith; because of All Scripture, such as John 5:24...
John 5:24 says, "Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life".
I think this should be enough to Change your Mind about any delay before were in the Body...
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I agree. That's the way it is SUPPOSED to work. I question whether it always does.
Consider this.
You indicated a progression. Active participation (Body life) is at the end of the progression.
Believer > grafted in > active participation
But what happens if the progression is short-circuited?
Believer > grafted in > inactivity (lack of Body life)
What becomes of branches that do not bear fruit?
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Hey You!
Member
In a Case like that, Jesus said, "I never knew you; Depart from Me". Jesus is the True Vine, and his Branches will Bear Fruit...
The question you ask, is answered in the Parable of the Sower. The Good Soil Bears a Crop. None of the other Soils Bear a Crop; even though they receive Gospel Seed and grow for a bit. Conflate this with the Branches in the True Vine; they will Bear Figs not Thorns...
The Born Again Christian will Bear Fruit because they are in the True Vine through Faith; they have Crossed over then and there; and ARE the Body of Christ, the Church...
Are you then saying that active participation (Body life) is the litmus test for salvation? (I hope not)
If so, that would be works, not grace. Right?
I'm not questioning the salvation of non-active believers.
What I am questioning is whether they qualify as being a part of the Body of Christ.
I'm not even sure what that means ultimately.
But there certainly is a difference in these two types of believers.
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Hey You!
Member
It seems to me you are in accord with Saint James when he says to show him your Works. We're not Justified by Works in the sight of God, in any sense. I'd say that the threat to Cut us off is only an Unrealized Potential; it has never happened. We can base this on the Parable of the Fig Tree. The Landlord is God the Father, and the Gardener is Jesus. God said Cut the Fig Tree down and Burn it, but Jesus Dunged it instead, because the Fig Tree is Israel. God threatened to Cut off the Apple of his Eye, but Jesus won't do it; he will Lose none...
Once In, Never Out...
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YOUR COMPLICATING things go by what the scripture says not iyho .. dont get me wrong we all have opinions on matters the Body of Christ functions through other believers.. to try to answer your question what does james say faith with out works is dead
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
while we cant judge salvation there stands a possibility if no salvation.. God quickened us by his spirit paul wrote in Ephesians 2 you hath he quickened And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.. made alive i leave you with this a old time preacher man use to say we have enough oil to take care of us.
the only qualification is saved by grace through faith and kept by the power of GOD only the qualification is Justified by grace by faith and the Blood
If you have to know what is on the other side to be part of the gang, then maybe you need to walk on thin ice to get there; not to say you can't swim if you have to, but the point is you have to attempt something that isn't guaranteed.
Knowing this life is not guaranteed, is what makes a believer a strong believer.
The OP had a good question!
Knowing this life is not guaranteed, is what makes a believer a strong believer.
The OP had a good question!
Half a dozen posts and you still have no idea what I am talking about.
A believer becomes a part of the Body of Christ when they begin to actively participate as a body part.
Nothing to do with salvation.
Believer = relationship with God (conversion - repentance - spiritual growth)
Grafted in = relationship with Christ (Christ living through them - individual outreach = fruit)
Active participation = relationship with the Body of Christ (Body life as a body part - teamwork)
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Hey You!
Member
Ritajanice
Born-Again
The fruit that a Born Again produces, is that of the Spirit, it’s spiritual fruit...how would the body know how to produce fruit.
The Born Again will undoubtedly bear the fruit of the Spirit, which can take time to grow and mature from within our “ spirit “ as we are being conformed into the image of Jesus.
The Born Again will undoubtedly bear the fruit of the Spirit, which can take time to grow and mature from within our “ spirit “ as we are being conformed into the image of Jesus.
St. SteVen said:
Half a dozen posts and you still have no idea what I am talking about.
A believer becomes a part of the Body of Christ when they begin to actively participate as a body part.
Nothing to do with salvation.
Believer = relationship with God (conversion - repentance - spiritual growth)
Grafted in = relationship with Christ (Christ living through them - individual outreach = fruit)
Active participation = relationship with the Body of Christ (Body life as a body part - teamwork)
And not so much "membership" as support and involvement.
A body is made up of body parts. Therefore, to be part of the body,
one needs to be a body part. Admittedly, I was a part of the Body of Christ
as an active body part years (decades?) before I became an official member.
So, in that sense, it's not about church membership at all.
Even a person who is not a part of a local church could be active as a part of the Body of Christ.
It's all about finding your part and DOING your part. Where do you fit?
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Half a dozen posts and you still have no idea what I am talking about.
A believer becomes a part of the Body of Christ when they begin to actively participate as a body part.
Nothing to do with salvation.
Believer = relationship with God (conversion - repentance - spiritual growth)
Grafted in = relationship with Christ (Christ living through them - individual outreach = fruit)
Active participation = relationship with the Body of Christ (Body life as a body part - teamwork)
More than that. But that's part of it. (sort of)
And not so much "membership" as support and involvement.
A body is made up of body parts. Therefore, to be part of the body,
one needs to be a body part. Admittedly, I was a part of the Body of Christ
as an active body part years (decades?) before I became an official member.
So, in that sense, it's not about church membership at all.
Even a person who is not a part of a local church could be active as a part of the Body of Christ.
It's all about finding your part and DOING your part. Where do you fit?
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Lambano
Well-Known Member
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