Assurance of salvation:

[verzanumi24]

Well it sounds to me like you may be striving to follow Jesus without regard to any label.

Having label is not what matters. What matters is that one is doing what Jesus commands them to do. I value more what God's word say than in what others say.

Do you know or do you believe you know the purpose of a Christian according to whatever you believe a Christian is? If you do, do you also have scriptures which support or explain your belief on this? Would you mind sharing your view on these things?

The reason or purpose for God creating and making human beings is for them to rule. This is why God made human beings in His image. The very first book in the Bible tells us that God gave mankind(male and female) dominion over the Earth. God's plan didn't change after man sinned. The Father sent the Word, who became human via being born by Mary to not only put human beings back in His kingdom but to get the process going by starting His Church.

When Jesus begun His ministry He preached the kingdom of God in the form of parables. Several of those parables have to do with rulership.

Matthew 25:14-23 (NKJV)

14 "For the kingdom of heaven is like a man traveling to a far country, who called his own servants and delivered his goods to them.

15 And to one he gave five talents, to another two, and to another one, to each according to his own ability; and immediately he went on a journey.

16 Then he who had received the five talents went and traded with them, and made another five talents.

17 And likewise he who had received two gained two more also.

18 But he who had received one went and dug in the ground, and hid his lord's money.

19 After a long time the lord of those servants came and settled accounts with them.

20 So he who had received five talents came and brought five other talents, saying, 'Lord, you delivered to me five talents; look, I have gained five more talents besides them.'

21 His lord said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.'

22 He also who had received two talents came and said, 'Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.'

23 His lord said to him, 'Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.'

The early Church knew that one day they will rule with Jesus

2 Timothy 2:10-12 (KJV)

10 Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:

12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:

Who rules? Kings rule, but not religious people. There are many scriptures that I could present here that would back up 2 Timothy 2:10-12.

Jesus promised His disciples that it was the Father's good pleasure to give them the kingdom of God.

Luke 12:31-32 (ASV)

31 Yet seek ye his kingdom, and these things shall be added unto you.

32 Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.


Notice that Jesus said to seek first the kingdom of God. Jesus could have easily said to seek Him or the Father first, but He didn't. Seeking the kingdom of God is about making sure one is working toward fullfilling their purpose. The gifts that one has is how one go about doing that, because it is what Jesus will use to determine the reward the person will have in the kingdom of God. The aposcle Paul was given a ministry of Grace.....that was his gift. Our gifts is our ministry and not everybody are all given the same gifts or ministry.


This is why Jesus commaned His people to preach the kingdom of God to all Nations. Because regardless of whether the person is an athist, a muslim or a hindu, Jesus has given them gifts. Jesus wants them to hear the kingdom of God preached to them, so they will have an oppertunity to respond. Jesus never commaned His people to breach about Him......Jesus is not the gospel....the kingdom of God is.

Luke 9:2 (ASV)

2 And he sent them forth to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.

Christians, or those bearing that label, for the most part as I see it, know very little because their position is so often based on someone else's belief or declaration rather than as a result of their own communication with God.

That is correct. This is why in the vast majority of christian that I have had discussions with, much of what I have said is strange or unknown to them. The churches tend to stick to using a hand full of scriptures, and rarely do they venture outside of the few scriptures they so frequently use from week to week.

 

[Triumph1300]

The churches tend to stick to using a hand full of scriptures, and rarely do they venture outside of the few scriptures they so frequently use from week to week.

How do you know?
How do you know what is preached in the church I go to.
How do you know what is being preached in the church Amadeus goes to?

 

[verzanumi24]

How do you know?
How do you know what is preached in the church I go to.
How do you know what is being preached in the church Amadeus goes to?

Because I have heard them, and the negative response I get when I say or post things that is supported in the Bible, that should be known to them if they were really studying the entire Bible.

 

[bbyrd009]

Having label is not what matters.

did we ever get a reply as to why we have to and you don't?

 

[amadeus]

I gave you a "like" not because I necessarily agree with every point but because you readily set out what you believe and why. Thank you for that.

Notice that Jesus said to seek first the kingdom of God. Jesus could have easily said to seek Him or the Father first, but He didn't. Seeking the kingdom of God is about making sure one is working toward fullfilling their purpose. The gifts that one has is how one go about doing that, because it is what Jesus will use to determine the reward the person will have in the kingdom of God. The aposcle Paul was given a ministry of Grace.....that was his gift. Our gifts is our ministry and not everybody are all given the same gifts or ministry.

"Our gifts is our ministry".

That statement is at least thought provoking. Do I agree? I agree that the Body of Christ consists of many members with different functions. All of them should be subject to the Head, which is Jesus. In working in the function to which we are called, likely the gifts that God has given us will come into play.

This is why Jesus commanded His people to preach the kingdom of God to all Nations. Because regardless of whether the person is an athist, a muslim or a hindu, Jesus has given them gifts. Jesus wants them to hear the kingdom of God preached to them, so they will have an oppertunity to respond. Jesus never commanded His people to preach about Him......Jesus is not the gospel....the kingdom of God is.

Luke 9:2 (ASV)

2 And he sent them forth to preach the kingdom of God, and to heal the sick.

While I see some "good" in what you say here, I cannot really wholeheartedly agree. Our focus is different and our result is not exactly the same, but maybe that is a difference between what God has given each of us being manifested. I will leave this at that for the moment.

That is correct. This is why in the vast majority of christian that I have had discussions with, much of what I have said is strange or unknown to them. The churches tend to stick to using a hand full of scriptures, and rarely do they venture outside of the few scriptures they so frequently use from week to week.

This may be so with some churches, but certainly I would be slow about making such a general statement. Where I attend while we have a pastor, he is in his 90's and quite frail so often I have been the one to preach or teach. [I have no position or title according to men.] I know that I don't stick to a hand full of scriptures and my pastor when he is up to speaking also doesn't do that. I know of others that don't do it as you say, but admittedly I know of some who do.

When I preach or teach I do not usually have a prepared message or lesson. I wait on God and when I get up to speak I follow His lead as to where in scripture I will go...

 

[amadeus]

Because I have heard them, and the negative response I get when I say or post things that is supported in the Bible, that should be known to them if they were really studying the entire Bible.

You have not heard them all.

Certainly all of them are not represented on this forum for the number of variations outside the forum are in the thousands. I have in the past made an effort to visit some and while some of them are really quite dead as I see it, others have manifested different degrees of Light. Are any of them the getting brighter? Are you? Am I? I hope the answer to all three questions is, yes, but who of is seeing so perfectly as that already:

"Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound." Isaiah 30:26

 

[bbyrd009]

While I see some "good" in what you say here, I cannot really wholeheartedly agree. Our focus is different and our result is not exactly the same, but maybe that is a difference between what God has given each of us being manifested. I will leave this at that for the moment.

the terms might be variously defined, "preach" is a rather tortured way to translate kerusso, etc
so ya

 

[bbyrd009]

When I preach or teach

sometimes you prolly just proclaim, huh :)

words might even be a last resort

 

[amadeus]

the terms might be variously defined, "preach" is a rather tortured way to translate kerusso, etc
so ya

I understand how you search and find things. You know that I do it differently, which is not to say that either of us is wrong. We are simply different. God made all of us different even though we may have some things in common.

While I do at times make use of sources other than the Bible I am reading, my main and final recourse or resource is God. When I say I preach or teach, I mean that I stand up and open my mouth and try to let that come out which God has put in me. I am eating of his flesh and drinking of his blood daily so that hopefully the required raw materials are always available.

Sometimes I know that the Holy Spirit quickens those things in me and brings them Alive to my mouth. Other times I know I have missed the mark. Sometimes I really don' know one way or the other. Jesus never missed the mark and he always knew what he was doing. He and his Father were One. Were they ever not One? Am I ever not One with God? Help me dear Lord!

 

[bbyrd009]

Were they ever not One?

i don't think so; yet
"My God, why have You forsaken Me?"

 

[amadeus]

i don't think so; yet
"My God, why have You forsaken Me?"

Your thought went to the same place as my own when I asked the question. My answer was the same, but I remain open to a better understanding.

 

[verzanumi24]

You have not heard them all.

Certainly all of them are not represented on this forum for the number of variations outside the forum are in the thousands. I have in the past made an effort to visit some and while some of them are really quite dead as I see it, others have manifested different degrees of Light. Are any of them the getting brighter? Are you? Am I? I hope the answer to all three questions is, yes, but who of is seeing so perfectly as that already:

"Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound." Isaiah 30:26

Very very rarely have I ever come across those who study the Bible and understand it. If they did, most of their teachings would change....if they are humble enough to recieve the truth.


Here are just a few things if they should know if they studied and understood the scriptures

(1)They wouldn't believe that Jesus is coming back to take them to Heaven.....He never said He would.
(2)They would start preaching the kingdom of God.....that's the gospel Jesus preached and commanded His people to preach.
(3)They would know their purpose and why God created the universe. The scriptures in the Bible say that the saints will rule with Jesus.
(4)They would be keeping the Passover instead of Easter. Easter is a pagan custom.
(5)If they studied the scriptures and understand it, they would know God's plan for saving the vast majority of people, who lived and died and never knew anything about the true God. The scriptures tells us that there are more than one resurrection.
(6)If they really studied the Bible they would know that before Jesus left for Heaven He set up the kingdom of God on the Earth and empowered His people to go out and start the process of bring the Nations under their influence.

 

[bbyrd009]

Your thought went to the same place as my own when I asked the question. My answer was the same, but I remain open to a better understanding.

well, i guess first you gotta decide whether God forsook Christ or not,
you will not forsake my soul, x35 i guess, and then
"egkataleipó: to leave behind, i.e. (in a good sense) let remain over..." (!)
and down the rabbit hole you go :)

"Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather."

 

[verzanumi24]

"Our gifts is our ministry".

That statement is at least thought provoking. Do I agree? I agree that the Body of Christ consists of many members with different functions. All of them should be subject to the Head, which is Jesus. In working in the function to which we are called, likely the gifts that God has given us will come into play.


While I see some "good" in what you say here, I cannot really wholeheartedly agree. Our focus is different and our result is not exactly the same, but maybe that is a difference between what God has given each of us being manifested. I will leave this at that for the moment.

Read Jesus' parables.....they all teach us something that we need to learn in regards to the kingdom of God, and a lot of it have to do with being productive by using one's gifts. Most christians get distracted with Jesus and completely missed or ignore His message. Jesus said many would seem to represent Him, but they will deceive many. The many deceiving the many is referring to the majority. They teach things that is either false or focus on the wrong things.

 

[bbyrd009]

Your thought went to the same place as my own when I asked the question. My answer was the same, but I remain open to a better understanding.

i'm struggling with how to present...the dialectic nature of Scripture (which is not the Book of Truth, remember) here, without sounding like i am saying "a lie is the truth" lol. It's more like "truth is contained in the opposite" or something like that,
"Together with the adjective φιλος (philos) beloved or friend: the adjective φιλοθεος (philotheos), meaning god-friendly or god-loving (2 TIMOTHY 3:4 only). This word is the reversed of the name Theophilus, which belonged to the man to whom the gospel of Luke and the Book of Acts were dedicated..." What God is and what God is not

but i'll keep looking. However the gist is that virtually nothing a Logical thinker interprets from Scripture can be correct, and that the Bible is lying to us on purpose

 

[bbyrd009]

and going OT,

"For a meaning of the name Azubah, NOBSE Study Bible Name List reads Forsaken. Jones' Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names has Deserted.

There are three Azubahs mentioned in the Bible:
...The third time the name Azubah occurs is in a small array of nicknames that the prophet Isaiah assigns to Zion and Jerusalem (Isaiah 62:4)..." The amazing name Azubah: meaning and etymology

you might bring your understanding of what "3" means to this also

1My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?b

Why are You so far from my deliverancec

and from my words of groaning?d, e

2My God, I cry by day, but You do not answer,

by night, yet I have no rest.

hardly sounds like a perspective that Christ would hold, does it
שבק | Abarim Publications Theological Dictionary (Old Testament Aramaic)

 

[amadeus]

Very very rarely have I ever come across those who study the Bible and understand it. If they did, most of their teachings would change....if they are humble enough to recieve the truth.

As Pontius Pilate asked, "What is truth"? The answer of course as many church goers may know is "Jesus". The problem for some is they don't know much of anything about who Jesus is so their answer remains empty.

What is real humility before God? Even those who may have found it sometimes have failed to regularly practice it. Alone, we cannot.

Here are just a few things if they should know if they studied and understood the scriptures

Even among those who do read the scriptures regularly there are things that are not understood.

(1)They wouldn't believe that Jesus is coming back to take them to Heaven.....He never said He would.
(2)They would start preaching the kingdom of God.....that's the gospel Jesus preached and commanded His people to preach.
(3)They would know their purpose and why God created the universe. The scriptures in the Bible say that the saints will rule with Jesus.
(4)They would be keeping the Passover instead of Easter. Easter is a pagan custom.
(5)If they studied the scriptures and understand it, they would know God's plan for saving the vast majority of people, who lived and died and never knew anything about the true God. The scriptures tells us that there are more than one resurrection.
(6)If they really studied the Bible they would know that before Jesus left for Heaven He set up the kingdom of God on the Earth and empowered His people to go out and start the process of bring the Nations under their influence.

You have made a lot of decisions here. Hopefully you are not too far off on many of them.

 

[amadeus]

Read Jesus' parables.....they all teach us something that we need to learn in regards to the kingdom of God, and a lot of it have to do with being productive by using one's gifts. Most christians get distracted with Jesus and completely missed or ignore His message. Jesus said many would seem to represent Him, but they will deceive many. The many deceiving the many is referring to the majority. They teach things that is either false or focus on the wrong things.

And understand also the parables contained in the OT. I would slow down the emphasis on what is wrong and increase the emphasis on what is right. But that is me.

What is right? You seem to have a handle on what you believe it to be. My handle is more on simply eating his flesh and drinking his blood so the right things will be available when they are needed.

 

[brakelite]

Our salvation isn't about us. Redemption isn't about our rewards or ruling the earth. The Cross of Calvary is not primarily to bring us eternal life. God's purpose for humanity goes easy way deeper than our own selfish ambitions for eternal life and joy evermore. It isn't about us. It's about God.
You see, when Lucifer rebelled in heaven, what he began as a rebellion among angels, and a mindset of discontent among them, has spread to this planet, and grown progressively worse. Some ask, why didn't Good squash Lucifer in the beginning and start again? Because any rebellion is a war of ideas. And Lucifer had indicated a war of ideas. A war of concepts and false accusations against the government of heaven. God had to put down the rebellion. God had to take certain actions that assured everyone such would not happen again. Squashing Lucifer would not have accomplished this, because such a drastic course of action would have given the impression to the remaining faithful angels that maybe Lucifer was right. Destroying Lucifer would not have gotten rid of they idea that God was not doing his job as ruler and king of the universe. Destroying Lucifer would not have shown that Lucifer's ideas on governance was poorly conceived, nor disproved his lies and insinuations that brought about the rebellion. Those ideas linger on today worse than ever. The rebellion is alive and well. And God is hated by billions... He's distrusted more than ever; his laws called arbitrary and impossible demands that man is incapable of obeying (even Christians are saying this!!!); And the majority of the world is fully behind God's arch enemy. Destroying Satan at this point would simply cause everyone else to serve God out of fear. Thus what God has had to do is disprove Satan's lies, then destroy him when all the facts of the case are clearly revealed and witnessed by everyone so there is no debate and no chance of any thing of the kind happening again.
This must be God's prime objective. This is his purpose for his church. To prove that God is good. To prove that he is a good of mercy, grace and love. To vindicate his character before the universe. How? By revealing that same character toward one another. Thus we poke Sstan in the eye and reject his lies, reject his slander, and uphold the laws and principles of God's kingdom.
Not everyone is convinced yet either way. Our rewards... Our eternal life... Our salvation, are just byproducts of the prime goal. The goal is to vindicate the character of the government of God in the midst of an active rebellion. To glorify Him. It's not about us.

 

[bbyrd009]

And understand also the parables contained in the OT. I would slow down the emphasis on what is wrong and increase the emphasis on what is right. But that is me.

What is right? You seem to have a handle on what you believe it to be. My handle is more on simply eating his flesh and drinking his blood so the right things will be available when they are needed.

to a one eyed man, even lies tell truth i guess
love...believes all things