Are You Saved Because You Believe OR Do You Believe Because You Are Saved?

[Harvest 1874]

as matter fact yes i am see i dont cling to some Lucy goose/ doctrine . i dont follow Lutheran or any other man made theology

The doctrine of the Trinity is a man-made theology my friend.

 

[CoreIssue]

The doctrine of the Trinity is a man-made theology my friend.

Another teaching of Russell who says Jesus is the Archangel Michael.

 

[Harvest 1874]

I I and many others believe he is on the earth in the EU. But it's not been revealed to the world yet.

And most assuredly not the way Russell has taught you.

You are free to believe what you will.

 

[Ezra]

No you just blindly follow the teachings of the Antichrist, and as such bare the mark of the beast.

ten thousand comedians out of work and your trying to be funny
really i am not going to squabble with you over man made doctrine..your founder is out in left field and has no clue where home plate is . you can have your strange fire .. so i bid you adios

 

[CoreIssue]

You are free to believe what you will.

Jehovah witness and by default Bible Students

 

[Ezra]

The doctrine of the Trinity is a man-made theology my friend.

im sorry did you post something ?

 

[justbyfaith]

There is no such thing as a word for word. It is impossible to do. Language to language does not allow for it.

In the kjv at least an attempt was made to translate each word into English.

 

[Earburner]

Are You Saved Because You Believe OR Do You Believe Because You Are Saved?

KJV- John 3:18 is the answer.
We are saved because we believe.

 

[Earburner]

Neither.
Salvation does not depend on us or on what we do.

We are saved because God chose us before he created the universe and it is he who gave us to Jesus.

So you must be a Jehovah's Witness (or some such adherent). But the Bible is very clear that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are one God in three Persons.

I agree!
Jesus spoke the concept of the trinity plain enough in John 14
[13] And whatsoever ye shall ask [Luke 11:13] in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
[14] If ye shall ask [Luke 11:13] any thing in my name, I will do it.
[15] If ye love me, keep my commandments.
[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
[17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he [Jesus] dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
[18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
[19] Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.
[20] At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you.
[21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
[22] Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
[23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and WE will come unto him, and make OUR abode with him.
[24] He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
[25] These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you.
[26] But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

 

[Harvest 1874]

ten thousand comedians out of work and your trying to be funny
really i am not going to squabble with you over man made doctrine..your founder is out in left field and has no clue where home plate is . you can have your strange fire .. so i bid you adios

You are correct there is no need to squabble over the man-made doctrine of the Trinity it has no effect upon ones salvation and is only a distraction of the Adversary to lead one away from more important studies and spiritual growth.

 

[prism]

Would posters please refrain from posting on the Trinitarian / non-trinitarian doctrine, as that is not the topic here.

 

[CoreIssue]

In the kjv at least an attempt was made to translate each word into English.

As does such as the NASB and NIV.

Argue all you want, but the KJV is not literal word for word.

 

[Ezra]

You are correct there is no need to squabble over the man-made doctrine of the Trinity it has no effect upon ones salvation and is only a distraction of the Adversary to lead one away from more important studies and spiritual growth.

amazing the antichrist has spoken

 

[Jon Mathews]

Are You Saved Because You Believe OR Do You Believe Because You Are Saved?
This was a similar question to what Dave_L posted on his Profile page. This is posted with his permission.

Would any like to chime in?
Keep it umm, err, civil :)

I guess you're asking "Which came first, your salvation or your faith?" My answer is BOTH.... they are One and the same. Jesus Christ is both my Salvation and the Author and Perfecter of my Faith.

 

[ScottA]

Are You Saved Because You Believe OR Do You Believe Because You Are Saved?
This was a similar question to what Dave_L posted on his Profile page. This is posted with his permission.

Would any like to chime in?
Keep it umm, err, civil :)

I am afraid, all I can offer is a curve ball...well, that is, in addition to a confirmation that one perhaps does not get from believing:

I was saved before ever believing, so I do not "believe", but rather "know" for certain. ;)

 

[justbyfaith]

I was saved before ever believing, so I do not "believe", but rather "know" for certain. ;)

From the perspective that the Lord knew you before you were born, from the perspective of Him being outside of time.

Nevertheless it should be clear that faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for you on the Cross is the catalyst for your salvation.

Iow, you are saved because of faith in Jesus Christ; this is the cause and effect relationship between faith and salvation.

From the Lord's perspective, you were predestined to salvation from eternity past. From your perspective, you got saved the moment you placed your faith in Jesus and the Cross.

Predestinated according to foreknowledge. Romans 8:29, 1 Peter 1:2.

 

[ScottA]

From the perspective that the Lord knew you before you were born, from the perspective of Him being outside of time.

Nevertheless it should be clear that faith in Jesus Christ and what He did for you on the Cross is the catalyst for your salvation.

Iow, you are saved because of faith in Jesus Christ; this is the cause and effect relationship between faith and salvation.

From the Lord's perspective, you were predestined to salvation from eternity past. From your perspective, you got saved the moment you placed your faith in Jesus and the Cross.

Predestinated according to foreknowledge. Romans 8:29, 1 Peter 1:2.

I am convinced that it is His being faithful that was and is fully adequate, for which I am grateful, claiming nothing.

 

[MetalMike]

I absolutely believe that I was saved because I believed.

 

[farouk]

I absolutely believe that I was saved because I believed.

Ephesians 2.8-9

 

[stunnedbygrace]

This is true, but unless God grants the new birth, the word falls of deaf ears.

“And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.” (Acts 16:14)

This is soooo difficult to apply my mind to. It is only by monumental effort (and coffee) that I have been able to get to page 3 or 4.

I just have to go by how it happened to me.

I went my whole life not being able to see that God existed. In fact, I think I even thought, about religious people, you've learned nothing from your childhood and the whole Santa Claus hoodwinking they put you through, so now you choose another hoodwinking as an adult!

I would have gone on that way forever unless He healed my blindness and I suddenly saw that He was when I read the gospels.

So I lived the verse: and to give sight to the blind.

So from my own limited perspective, the first thing I received from God was a healing of my sight.

And once I saw that He was, well...that's belief. I didn't believe and then receive my sight. It was just...bang I could see! and...if you can see, then that IS belief...

But I have no doubt that I didn't just choose to see - He LET me see, healed my blindness.

I feel that I had no choice in that. I was blind and men born blind can't just choose to see, it requires an operation for a man born blind to see.

So that, from my perspective, was how it happened. I received the Spirit some days after that, at least that I was aware of.