Are You Dead to Self?

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Lizbeth

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The Sanhedrin and Pharisees wanted Yeshua dead by any means available.

They couldn't stone him to death though they earlier had intended this , but Jesus had disappeared from their presence.

I've noticed this time and again. When they succeeded in murdering him they then said,let his blood be upon our heads and those of our children. Cursing themselves and future generations if they were wrong to have demanded his execution.

They were,as we know.

And now ever since their ancestors did this,invoked that curse, what's happened to their people?

Think they've gotten the message by now that they were wrong in murdering their Messiah?

They're now living through the curse for all these centuries after that their ancestors asked be upon them for being murderers.
Partly, I would consider it. Their punishment fell on them in 70 AD when Jerusalem and the Temple was destroyed and the people of Israel were taken as slaves or were scattered. Since then they have been strangers in a strange land wherever they went, which gives rise to being mistreated from time to time (fallen human nature being what it is unfortunately.) They are also being chastised as sons (prodigal).....since they are still beloved by God for the sake of their faithful ancestors and their gifts and calling are without repentance. The devil still likes to persecute them because they are loved by God and because they are still His chosen people, in a sense, even though they are for the most part still apostate, until/unless they come to Christ individually at least.

It was God's sovereign wisdom to blind them in part until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in....through their fall we Gentiles received the gospel. That through our MERCY they in turn might receive mercy. He has bound all men over to disobedience, both Jew and Gentile, that He might have mercy upon them all through the gospel. There is no place for us to look down on the Jews/Israel and we are warned against it.

We are not to usurp God's place who is the only righteous judge of every soul....there is none righteous, no not one....not Jew or Gentile....we are just not qualified to be judge of our fellow man. Let the Lord do what judging He deems necessary of people of every nation, and let we as Christ's ambassadors fulfill the only mandate Jesus gave to the church by pouring in His healing balm of MERCY to whosoever will receive it. Scripture says He wounds and He also binds up.

Just want to add that God judges in turn every people and nation that persecutes the Jews. Such things must come but WOE to those through whom they come.
 
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quietthinker

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Partly, I would consider it. Their punishment fell on them in 70 AD when Jerusalem and the Temple was destroyed and the people of Israel were taken as slaves or were scattered. Since then they have been strangers in a strange land wherever they went, which gives rise to being mistreated from time to time (fallen human nature being what it is unfortunately.) They are also being chastised as sons (prodigal).....since they are still beloved by God for the sake of their faithful ancestors and their gifts and calling are without repentance. The devil still likes to persecute them because they are loved by God and because they are still His chosen people, in a sense, even though they are for the most part still apostate, until/unless they come to Christ individually at least.

It was God's sovereign wisdom to blind them in part until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in....through their fall we Gentiles received the gospel. That through our MERCY they in turn might receive mercy. He has bound all men over to disobedience, both Jew and Gentile, that He might have mercy upon them all through the gospel. There is no place for us to look down on the Jews/Israel and we are warned against it.

We are not to usurp God's place who is the only righteous judge of every soul....there is none righteous, no not one....not Jew or Gentile....we are just not qualified to be judge of our fellow man. Let the Lord do what judging He deems necessary of people of every nation, and let we as Christ's ambassadors fulfill the only mandate Jesus gave to the church by pouring in His healing balm of MERCY to whosoever will receive it. Scripture says He wounds and He also binds up.

Just want to add that God judges in turn every people and nation that persecutes the Jews. Such things must come but WOE to those through whom they come.
God gives life and breath to all. Why do we suppose he shows favouritism? Is it because we do?
If God didn't like a particular people he could just withhold their ability to reproduce.

God giving Israel the privilege of extra insight to share his reality with the nations around was missed by the Israelites. They wanted domination and insisted on it.

Consider the origins of the twelve tribes.....brothers of Joseph. They hardly had any integrity selling their brother and maintaining a lie with their Father......and the question we can ask today, do those who make the claim of being their descendants have any more integrity? (on a national level)
 

BlessedPeace

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God gives life and breath to all. Why do we suppose he shows favouritism? Is it because we do?
If God didn't like a particular people he could just withhold their ability to reproduce.

God giving Israel the privilege of extra insight to share his reality with the nations around was missed by the Israelites. They wanted domination and insisted on it.

Consider the origins of the twelve tribes.....brothers of Joseph. They hardly had any integrity selling their brother and maintaining a lie with their Father......and the question we can ask today, do those who make the claim of being their descendants have any more integrity? (on a national level)

WOW!

 

Lizbeth

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God gives life and breath to all. Why do we suppose he shows favouritism? Is it because we do?
If God didn't like a particular people he could just withhold their ability to reproduce.

God giving Israel the privilege of extra insight to share his reality with the nations around was missed by the Israelites. They wanted domination and insisted on it.

Consider the origins of the twelve tribes.....brothers of Joseph. They hardly had any integrity selling their brother and maintaining a lie with their Father......and the question we can ask today, do those who make the claim of being their descendants have any more integrity? (on a national level)
Well, was God showing "favouritism" when He chose them? Is He showing "favouritism" every time He chooses anyone for His purposes? Do you think it's a fun thing to be "chosen" by Him or does it come with a great cost?

There is a spirit of antisemitism being stirred up right now....we need to guard our hearts (for out of it is supposed to flow issues of LIFE) and remember what Paul said in Romans.

And just to say....God promised not to "make a full end" of the Jewish people....they are still here and even can be discerned at times......their gifts and callings are without repentance. Does that mean they always do right? No, they are lost souls, and according to the Lord there is no one righteous, no not one, in the fallen realm of this world. Sometimes they do well and try to do right, other times or in other ways not..... some are so lovely and kind hearted, others can be unconscionable scoundrels.......like anyone in this fallen world. And what is our attitude as believers supposed to be toward lost souls? Did Jesus leave us here to denigrate and judge lost souls or to try and bring them His mercy?

That said, we must not put the Jewish people on a pedestal or follow after them........we have what they need, the gospel, not the other way around. Friendship with the world is enmity with God. (Of course, that doesn't mean to be "unfriendly", it means to be separate from the world.)
 
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Anonymous 1

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There is no competition between the Holy Spirit and the word of God......they agree....the Spirit and the word agree......we need both. Two witnesses are needed to establish the truth, as scripture itself testifies. Bible also says the scriptures are able to make us wise unto salvation. They are a lamp unto our feet and light unto our path......lighting the way for us. We need the lamp (word of God) and we also need the oil for our lamps (Holy Spirit)......both. We need the Holy Spirit for both understanding and power/strength....together they are the sword of the Lord, our weapon that is mighty in God for the tearing down of strongholds. Bible says the scriptures are....."profitable" for us......and that is written in the word in an understated way.

There are so many scriptures that talk about loving, cherishing and treasuring God's word. Hiding it in our hearts....we need to do that. Many believers don't bother to know the word of God for themselves, but instead let others teach them what they think they mean. That's a recipe for disaster. Or they teach a false doctrine and cherry pick verses that appear by themselves to back up their doctrine, without looking at the whole counsel of God. It's hard to test things without God's word, I mean discernment is one way but then we need to be able to even test our discernment. Discernment is also informed and sharpened by the word of God.....knowing His word well helps you to discern...it all works hand in hand.
100% agree with this well stated post!
Some seem to believe religiously without the checks and balances of the HS inspired word of God, and in being Spirit led in living.This makes their supposedly " spirituality " lop-sided and OBIVIOUS by their post !
 
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BlessedPeace

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When Epi refuses to answer the question he posed to the forum, there's your answer if you wonder,can we believe he teaches this stuff?

(No)
 
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Ritajanice

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100% agree with this well stated post!
Some seem to believe religiously without the checks and balances of the HS inspired word of God, and in being Spirit led in living.This makes their supposedly " spirituality " lop-sided and OBIVIOUS by their post !
What about the witness the Living Holy Spirit?...who testifies with our spIrit?

Remember “ Spirit gives birth to spirit “?

The written word doesn’t make our spirit Born Again though does it?

Only Gods Living witness can do that...that’s why our spirit must be Born Again....supernaturally by Gods Living Holy Spirit?
 
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Ritajanice

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Some seem to believe religiously without the checks and balances of the HS inspired word of God
Inspired written word?

What about the Living word...?

Who witnesses Gods truth to our spirit/ heart.....?

Only the written word?

The inspired word was written by men under the influence of the Spirit?

Who do you think makes our spirit Born Again?

The inspired written word?
 
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Ritajanice

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I meant the self proclamation of those who think God has pulled them aside as " special or elite" to oversee his followers.
God makes our spirit “ Born Again “...via His witness the “,Living Holy Spirit? those are the ones he chose and predestined to become Born Again...Biblical.

Whose fruit do you bear?

Jesus is known via the Living Holy Spirit....he witnesses Gods truth to our spirit....how else can we understand God’s written word?

We can’t know anything in our spirit without being Born Of The Spirit...we know of God in our spirit.....not by reading his written word...if you read about God without being Born Of Gods seed, then you can only understand the written word in one’s own human understanding......we need his witness the Living Holy Spirit residing in our heart/ spirit...to understand the written word..the Spirit is the one who leads us through scripture to understand it in our spirit as the Bible is written in Spirit...not the human intellect.

John 15:16​

King James Version​

16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
 
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Lizbeth

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God gives life and breath to all. Why do we suppose he shows favouritism? Is it because we do?
If God didn't like a particular people he could just withhold their ability to reproduce.

God giving Israel the privilege of extra insight to share his reality with the nations around was missed by the Israelites. They wanted domination and insisted on it.

Consider the origins of the twelve tribes.....brothers of Joseph. They hardly had any integrity selling their brother and maintaining a lie with their Father......and the question we can ask today, do those who make the claim of being their descendants have any more integrity? (on a national level)
Fee free to ignore any blather of mine, but this came to me from the Lord upon awakening this morning:

Has not God chosen the weak things....? Like He chose you if you know the Lord, and me. And remember that Jacob's sons repented and were forgiven. And the Lord was pleased with Joseph who was also an ancestor of the nation of Israel.

And why just focus on the wrong, when there were those in Israel who were called faithful by the Lord? Paul wrote that the Jews are beloved for the sake of those faithful patriarchs....their ancestors. Out of them came our Saviour who was certainly as faithful as He was without sin! These are all reasons enough for us to love them as God loves them.

Not to put the Jews on a pedestal or be blind to their humanity, but neither should we join the world and devil when they rise up to deride and accuse and persecute them. No, we must not go down that road.
 
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Lizbeth

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God makes our spirit “ Born Again “...via His witness the “,Living Holy Spirit? those are the ones he chose and predestined to become Born Again...Biblical.

Whose fruit do you bear?

Jesus is known via the Living Holy Spirit....he witnesses Gods truth to our spirit....how else can we understand God’s written word?

We can’t know anything in our spirit without being Born Of The Spirit...we know of God in our spirit.....not by reading his written word...if you read about God without being Born Of Gods seed, then you can only understand the written word in one’s own human understanding......we need his witness the Living Holy Spirit residing in our heart/ spirit...to understand the written word..the Spirit is the one who leads us through scripture to understand it in our spirit as the Bible is written in Spirit...not the human intellect.

John 15:16​

King James Version​

16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
But remember that we are born again through the word, by the Spirit. The seed that is planted in our hearts is the word. We need both the word and the Spirit together....so it's not a question of one over the other. We are washed by the washing of the word....when we hear and receive that word. Generally through the foolishness of preaching or in some cases by the Lord revealing His word to our hearts without a person preaching it.

Rom 10:6-10

But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above) ;

Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;

That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

(So then as we see, we even need to confess that word with our mouth ourselves to complete or seal our salvation.)
 

Lizbeth

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100% agree with this well stated post!
Some seem to believe religiously without the checks and balances of the HS inspired word of God, and in being Spirit led in living.This makes their supposedly " spirituality " lop-sided and OBIVIOUS by their post !
Amen, I like that....checks and balances....one without the other leads to lopsidedness and error. God is looking for worshipers in Spirit AND in truth.
 

quietthinker

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Fee free to ignore any blather of mine, but this came to me from the Lord upon awakening this morning:

Has not God chosen the weak things....? Like He chose you if you know the Lord, and me. And remember that Jacob's sons repented and were forgiven. And the Lord was pleased with Joseph who was also an ancestor of the nation of Israel.

And why just focus on the wrong, when there were those in Israel who were called faithful by the Lord? Paul wrote that the Jews are beloved for the sake of those faithful patriarchs....their ancestors. Out of them came our Saviour who was certainly as faithful as He was without sin! These are all reasons enough for us to love them as God loves them.

Not to put the Jews on a pedestal or be blind to their humanity, but neither should we join the world and devil when they rise up to deride and accuse and persecute them. No, we must not go down that road.
Keeping things contextual is helpful. In this context, the Palestinians have been subject to much oppression by Israel for many years against which they feel justified in defending themselves. Is it any wonder then that barbarity happens? One of the big injustices are Jewish settlements encroaching on Palestinian homes and land.
This behaviour only the sows seeds of generational resistance and so the cycle of violence continues.

Do we as Christians raise a flag for Israel over and above the Palestinian people because our roots are there? Do we justify the oppression exercised on the Palestinian people for the same reason? It seems to me many Christians do. Is it justified? I don't think so. Exploitation and oppression have no part in God's Kingdom, it matters not which culture, language or ethnicity one is from.
 

Lizbeth

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Keeping things contextual is helpful. In this context, the Palestinians have been subject to much oppression by Israel for many years against which they feel justified in defending themselves. Is it any wonder then that barbarity happens? One of the big injustices are Jewish settlements encroaching on Palestinian homes and land.
This behaviour only the sows seeds of generational resistance and so the cycle of violence continues.

Do we as Christians raise a flag for Israel over and above the Palestinian people because our roots are there? Do we justify the oppression exercised on the Palestinian people for the same reason? It seems to me many Christians do. Is it justified? I don't think so. Exploitation and oppression have no part in God's Kingdom, it matters not which culture, language or ethnicity one is from.
I am trying to learn to let the Lord sort out and judge the politics and strifes of this world. The best I can do about all that is come up with tentative opinions, and that I'm sorry for the suffering on both sides. There is so much information and disinformation out there, who has time to sort through it all and who can always tell who is lying and when? Much less try to render a judgment. I'm getting older too, and it's no picnic. So I will just have to let the Lord manage this world without me and my opinions ;) Think He can do it without me? (lol!) Well yeah, He has been doing it since the world began, hasn't He?

Sometimes the Lord lets us know what HE is up to with regard to current events, and sometimes not. But one thing I know for certain is that there are lost souls on both sides so I believe we as the church should focus on the mandate Jesus gave us as His church.
 

Lizbeth

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Keeping things contextual is helpful. In this context, the Palestinians have been subject to much oppression by Israel for many years against which they feel justified in defending themselves. Is it any wonder then that barbarity happens? One of the big injustices are Jewish settlements encroaching on Palestinian homes and land.
This behaviour only the sows seeds of generational resistance and so the cycle of violence continues.

Do we as Christians raise a flag for Israel over and above the Palestinian people because our roots are there? Do we justify the oppression exercised on the Palestinian people for the same reason? It seems to me many Christians do. Is it justified? I don't think so. Exploitation and oppression have no part in God's Kingdom, it matters not which culture, language or ethnicity one is from.
I might venture this though:

Rom 13:1-4

Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
 

Ritajanice

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But remember that we are born again through the word, by the Spirit. The seed that is planted in our hearts is the word. We need both the word and the Spirit together
We are Born Of The Spirit.

We are not Born of the Word?

Being Born Of The Spirit is a supernatural act of God via His Spirit...we are not Born Again through the word, we are Born Again by Gods Witness the Living Holy Spirit...you do NOT need the written word to understand that?....The Living word backs up the written word.

We need God’s Living witness to make our spirit Born Again, then Gods written word backs up the Living Holy Spirit Word, who testifies with our spirit that we are Gods children.

Are you saying we can’t live without the written word?

I think you need to understand what Epi says, regarding the spiritual birth?

Do you understand what he is saying below here?

I follow Christ and I read the bible. :) Testimony is better than theology. Testimony is real experience...theology is based on suppositions

I say Amen! @Episkopos .
 
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GTW27

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Fee free to ignore any blather of mine, but this came to me from the Lord upon awakening this morning:

Has not God chosen the weak things....? Like He chose you if you know the Lord, and me. And remember that Jacob's sons repented and were forgiven. And the Lord was pleased with Joseph who was also an ancestor of the nation of Israel.

And why just focus on the wrong, when there were those in Israel who were called faithful by the Lord? Paul wrote that the Jews are beloved for the sake of those faithful patriarchs....their ancestors. Out of them came our Saviour who was certainly as faithful as He was without sin! These are all reasons enough for us to love them as God loves them.

Not to put the Jews on a pedestal or be blind to their humanity, but neither should we join the world and devil when they rise up to deride and accuse and persecute them. No, we must not go down that road.
To add to your revelation. Indeed The Lord chooses the weak things so that in due season He will be glorified through them.
 
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