Are people with resentment lost?

[This Vale Of Tears]

Yeah...I've heard/read that also Vale and i agree...but I also think forgiveness must go deeper than letting them off our hook...although I agree with that principal and if
that is followed through, I expect less pain and frustration.

And yes, that verse about the martyrs under the throne asking 'how long' is both touching and revealing I find. Do you see a connection to those refusing the mark in that
though or a general principal or both?

You must be familiar with the story of David when he was fleeing his throne because of Absalom? from II Sam

As King David approached Bahurim, a man from the same clan as Saul’s family came out from there. His name was Shimei son of Gera, and he cursed as he came out. 6He pelted David and all the king’s officials with stones, though all the troops and the special guard were on David’s right and left. 7As he cursed, Shimei said, “Get out, get out, you murderer, you scoundrel! 8The Lord has repaid you for all the blood you shed in the household of Saul, in whose place you have reigned. The Lord has given the kingdom into the hands of your son Absalom. You have come to ruin because you are a murderer!”
9Then Abishai son of Zeruiah said to the king, “Why should this dead dog curse my lord the king? Let me go over and cut off his head.”
10But the king said, “What does this have to do with you, you sons of Zeruiah? If he is cursing because the Lord said to him, ‘Curse David,’ who can ask, ‘Why do you do this?’ ”
11David then said to Abishai and all his officials, “My son, my own flesh and blood, is trying to kill me. How much more, then, this Benjamite! Leave him alone; let him curse, for theLord has told him to. 12It may be that the Lord will look upon my misery and restore to me his covenant blessing instead of his curse today.”
13So David and his men continued along the road while Shimei was going along the hillside opposite him, cursing as he went and throwing stones at him and showering him with dirt.14The king and all the people with him arrived at their destination exhausted. And there he refreshed himself.

There really is alot to this forgiveness and allowing God to take care of justice. I think some of us want justice more than revenge. What do you think of that?

I think this story entails much more that just forgiveness. Absalom was leading an active rebellion against the king and while personal forgiveness could be rendered, the prerogatives of the state necessitated his death for the well being of Israel as a kingdom. David was endangering himself and the stability of his kingdom by trying to keep alive his son who had brought upon himself a sure death sentence. In the end, General Abner did what was wrong in the eyes of his king, but right in the eyes of the kingdom when he captured and killed Absalom.

When George W. Bush was governor of Texas, a woman convicted of murder sought clemency from his office. She had since given her life to Christ and was, by all accounts, forgiven for what she had done. Governor Bush too was a Christian, but he did the right thing in allowing the execution to go through because it would have been an abuse of his power to give reprieve to somebody who rightfully incurred a sentence of death. Forgiveness does not do away with the temporal consequences of our sin, and the oldest law ever given by God by which men were to be governed is when he told Noah if any man sheds blood, his blood shall be shed by man. Perhaps this woman was forgiven by the family affected. She was certainly forgiven by God. King David certainly forgave his son, Absalom, but should have had his rebellion crushed with brutal force and his son executed as an example for all who would follow in his path. Such action would have been rueful, but necessary, and would not have negated forgiveness.

 

[Niki]

Oh I agree. I don't think David was forgiving in the sense that he loved the guy. No, not all. He sounds more like he is hurting so much over his son that he does
not are what happens to him...but of course that doesn't work when you are king!

Forgiveness does not do away with the temporal consequences of our sin,

Just so. Forgiveness is not a license to go and do it again. However there is that nagging 70 times 7 which apparently means keep forgiving and is not an
actual number one arrives at.

By saying we are to forgive those who sin against us seventy times seven, Jesus was not limiting forgiveness to 490 times, a number that is, for all practical purposes, beyond counting. Christians with forgiving hearts not only do not limit the number of times they forgive; they continue to forgive with as much grace the thousandth time as they do the first time. Christians are only capable of this type of forgiving spirit because the Spirit of God lives within us, and it is He who provides the ability to offer forgiveness over and over, just as God forgives us over and over.


Read more:http://www.gotquestions.org/seventy-times-seven.html#ixzz2XG9G7zDk

Going back up the posts here, JB wrote: The scriptures say, 'he who practices sin is of the devil'. So if the TENOR of ones life is that, then they ought to examine if they are in the faith

Continued sin when repeated efforts have been made to restore and try and get the person to stop sinning (as they say they are a Christian) must eventually lead to no more
dealings with the person I think? Some people just bump along and don't mean to hurt and when they ask forgiveness they mean it...but then it seems you have people who
just abuse away as though they had a 'get into heaven free' ticket

I'm dealing with someone like that now and I would love to get off the merry go round but they live in my house with me and my husband because they have ruined every
​other relationship they ever had and they are too old to live on their own even though they are in good health

 

[williemac]

I'm going to interrupt the train of thought with a suggestion. We are witnessing on this thread, a typical misunderstanding of the change that occurred at Calvary. There is a big contradiction in the bible on this subject; a contradiction that is explainable.
This contradiction is present in our churches and even on this debate site, and is the subject of much debate, discussion, and dispute.

It boils down to the differences between the old covenant and the new covenant. Under the old covenant, the responsibility was placed upon mankind to correct his own faults, behave righteously, and obey all the law. The point of this exercise was to show us all by way of experience and example that mankind is helpless in his condition and requires intervention and salvation from outside; specifically from God.

The bottom line is that we cannot fulfill the requirements that have been placed upon us by God for justification and life. Unfortunately this was not fully understood. They had standards of behavior that they thought were sufficient to please God. Therefore this was something that needed clarifying. One will not accept salvation unless he first understands his need for salvation. This is a vital truth. It needs to be understood and observed in its application.

The mistake that is often made in the church is to take all of what Jesus said while on earth and plunk it into our new covenant. Sorry, but this is not healthy strategy. Among other things, Jesus came to convince the world of sin. This is also the mission and ministry of He Whom Jesus said would come after Him. (The Holy Spirit). The most effective way to accomplish this conviction is to offer up a standard that is impossible to attain.

There are two places in the new testament that tell us to forgive others just as we have been forgiven. The one in Eph.4:32, and the other in Col.3:13. Notice the order. God forgave us first. (see also, 2Cor.5:19) . Did Paul disagree with Jesus? No. Jesus had not yet been offered up for our sins when He told them to forgive in order to be forgiven. The time frame was still in old covenant law. What he did was in common with other passages from His ministry on earth, in that He took away any hope or confidence that anyone could meet the standards in place at that time. This was a preparation for them, so that when He died for the sin of the world, the world would be able to appreciate fully what He did for it. It grieves me to observe that even to this day, many do not get it.

 

[aspen]

Forgiveness is accepting the pain and hurt that is acquired from another person and choosing to move towards healing instead of revenge. It is the imitation of Christ - God's broken heart on the cross. Hurt and pain caused by circumstances rather than people can be the hardest to forgive. Our own imperfection can be the cause of the worst kind of personal pain and requires us to forgive ourselves.

I think forgiveness is the highest form of love and is the good that God gave us out of the Fall.