Are Mormons Christians? (Latter Day Saints)

[Jane_Doe22]

Wrangler, Not a salvation issue? Are you serious? 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]homosexuals, nor [b]sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Wrangler, Would you become a member of a Christian denomination that condones abortion and performs gay marriages?

Wrangler, Currently there are many Protestant denominations that call themselves Christian and yet they support the right to abortion and perform gay marriages. Are those denominations Christian?

Answer my 3 questions and I will answer your 1 question. I have a feeling you won't and will dodge me AGAIN, but I have hope.

LDS Christians aren't Protestants, don't perform gay marriages, and done Condon abortion. This argument of yours is very off topic.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Is Jesus a brother to Satan?
(Yes or no please)

If "yes" then it's not so much a theology test but a different Jesus that is based on ours but vastly different.

God the Father is the Father of ALL. Yes or no.

Do you deny that? Cause I don't- He's the Father of all. Which only by technicality makes everyone siblings.

And yes, this is a theology test. "Anti-cultist" theology is all about man ignoring Christ to instead invent gatekeeping theology tests ground no where in scripture. It's them literally denying Christ and the power of His atonement.

 

[Wrangler]

Answer my 3 questions and I will answer your 1 question. I have a feeling you won't and will dodge me AGAIN, but I have hope.

Mary, I don't dodge questions unless it is merely an attack in the form of a question.

Wrangler, Not a salvation issue? Are you serious? 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor [a]homosexuals, nor [b]sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

Good point. I totally agree with you here. :-)

Wrangler, Would you become a member of a Christian denomination that condones abortion and performs gay marriages?

Mary, your Strawman arguments get tiring. As I wrote, the LDS do not condone this. Stop trying to make this personal.

Wrangler, Currently there are many Protestant denominations that call themselves Christian and yet they support the right to abortion and perform gay marriages. Are those denominations Christian?

I've said it many times, yes. Not sure where the miscommunication gap is ocurring. The "right" to these things is the political reference that I made earlier.

Now, I look forward to your answer. Thanks!

 

[Marymog]

Hey @Super Kal

I consider you to be a fellow Christian because we both believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, Savior of the world. I know that I gave my entire self to Him- He is my King and my rock. He pulled me out of the darkness when this world's terribleness made we wish for death. He is my SAVOIR. I presume that you likewise have a loving relationship with Him. Yes, there's disagreements on some things like the nature of man, but by no means would I ever deny your love of Christ and desire to follow Him.

Now, I believe that salvation comes through faith in Jesus Christ. And that's the only way. Real faith that transforms a sinful wretch into a disciple of Christ- the Biblical definition of a Christian. A person cannot save themselves-- such is a downright laughable impossibility. Even as we strive to follow Christ, we are each still flawed clay in the potter's hands. Saintification is a lifetime+ process.


How do you believe a person is saved? Is it via faith in Christ? Or is it dependent on a man's ability to perfectly ace a theology test?

Hey Jane,

As you said, salvation comes through faith in Christ. John 3:16 and Acts 16:31 confirms that. But that is NOT the only thing we must do to obtain salvation. Here is what Scripture says what we must ALSO do:

Repentance, Acts 2:38 and 2 Peter 3:9
Baptism, John 3:5, 1 Peter 3:21, Titus 3:5
Declaring with our mouths: Luke 12:8, Romans 10:9
Works: Romans 2:6, James 2:24

I have more but I am tired of typing. My point is as Scripture says one needs more than faith a person can save themselves IF they Repent, get baptized, do-good works and declare with our mouths. Faith without works is dead!

Mary

 

[Marymog]

Mary, I don't dodge questions unless it is merely an attack in the form of a question.

You did dodge all 3 questions because you did not answer them. None of my questions were attacks. That is your EXCUSE for dodging them. Put the blame on me for not answering them. If asking you what you believe is an attack you have a bizarre way of looking at things.

 

[Marymog]

Good point. I totally agree with you here. :-)

Soooooo you agree that homosexuality is a salvation issue? Or is it not a salvation issue like you said in post #448? Which wrangler am I talking to?

 

[TheOneHeLoves]

I 100% believe that Jesus Christ is the divine Son of God-- He is God. One with the Father, and Holy Spirit/Ghost, whom are all 3 different people. They are 1 via unity- that same 1 goodness, glory, mercy, will etc.

Points of disagreement come with the post-Biblical Creeds, such as the Athanasian's statements on God's substance, which I don't find supported by the Bible or really even make sense. If that disagreement results in you thinking God will send me to Hell for eternal torture... shrug. I can't change what you think. Nor can I abandon Christ, my love for Him and deep studies due to what some human thinks. So agree to disagree.

I don't follow theologians or man, I do follow Jesus, the Holy Spirit and the Holy Bible.

Do you believe the Holy Bible is not correct and needed to be changed/modified/updated by one man and that one man's "vision"? Even if it contradicts with the scriptures?

 

[Marymog]

Mary, your Strawman arguments get tiring. As I wrote, the LDS do not condone this. Stop trying to make this personal.

And there you go again. Make it look like I am the problem when YOU refuse to answer a legitimate question based on what YOU said YOU believe. Our discussion is not what the LDS condones. It is about what YOU have said and what YOU condone. Why are you answering for LDS? Just answer for yourself. Have some conviction.

YOU (not the leaders of the LDS) said if they consider themselves Christian and that’s good enough for me! YOU made it personal (about YOU) when YOU wrote those words.

In post #456 I said, I have a feeling you won't (answer my questions) and will dodge me AGAIN, but I have hope.

I no longer have hope......

 

[Wrangler]

Soooooo you agree that homosexuality is a salvation issue? Or is it not a salvation issue like you said in post #448? Which wrangler am I talking to?

You are talking to the Wrangler who is not getting trapped by questions meant to entrap me.

I agree with you. Can’t we agree, agreeably?

The point I’m trying to make is that these churches you refer to don’t agree that it is a salvation issue. Therefore, as I see it, you are attempting to leverage my personal beliefs against my political beliefs - and I won’t have it!

Worse, you are invoking Strawman as your entire line of questioning does not apply to LDS.

 

[Marymog]

I've said it many times, yes. Not sure where the miscommunication gap is ocurring. The "right" to these things is the political reference that I made earlier.

Now, I look forward to your answer. Thanks!

FINALLY, a direct answer to my question.

You believe a denomination that supports the right to abortion and performs gay marriages IS Christian because YOU have determined them to have the "right" to believe those things. Do you believe those denominations are sticking to sound doctrine spoken of in Scripture?

You haven't given one passage from Scripture that says they have the right to believe/practice those things..........Which means what you have given is your opinion.

Thank you for your opinion....I will stick with Scripture.

 

[Marymog]

Mary, do you believe someone can be saved and not have all their doctrine right?

Yes, someone can obtain salvation and not have all their doctrine right. However, once you have been taught sound doctrine (the truth), and you reject it, then you lose your salvation.

Any person (denomination) that condones abortion (murder) and gay marriage (which is a clear violation of Scripture) loses their salvation.

Would you, Wrangler, join such a denomination? You STILL have not answered that question. Why?

Mary

 

[Wrangler]

I no longer have hope......

In the face of your prayers being answered, you remain hopeless?! There is no pleasing you.

It is about what YOU have said and what YOU condone.

Mary, you seem to be laboring under a false premise. I am not the Lord and Savior.

It matters not what I condone - unless we are talking about politics and I have a vote.

YOU (not the leaders of the LDS) said if they consider themselves Christian and that’s good enough for me!

And it is good enough for me. Not sure why you cannot accept my direct answer.

 

[Marymog]

The point I’m trying to make is that these churches you refer to don’t agree that it is a salvation issue. Therefore, as I see it, you are attempting to leverage my personal beliefs against my political beliefs - and I won’t have it!

It doesn't matter if those denominations agree that it is a salvation issue. It only matters what Scripture says.

If those denominations say that stealing, rape, murder etc are not a salvation issue are you just going to say.....oh, okay. If YOU don't see it as a salvation issue then who am I to judge. I still see you as a christian denomination.

Your entire "personal beliefs" vs "political beliefs" rhetoric makes ZERO sense. We are talking about what Scripture says. If you can't point out a vs from Scripture that supports what your personal belief, then you are only giving your opinion. It appears from our conversation that your OPINION is that if a denomination calls itself Christian then you believe they are, even if they violate Scripture. That makes zero sense.

 

[Marymog]

In the face of your prayers being answered, you remain hopeless?! There is no pleasing you.



Mary, you seem to be laboring under a false premise. I am not the Lord and Savior.

It matters not what I condone - unless we are talking about politics and I have a vote.


And it is good enough for me. Not sure why you cannot accept my direct answer.

Unbelievable....

 

[Wrangler]

Would you, Wrangler, join such a denomination? You STILL have not answered that question. Why?

I did answer this question.

As far as me joining any particular Christian church, there are many factors. However, the floor is that they are Christian not the ceiling.

You don't want to acknowledge the answer because it conflicts with your denial that they are Christian - even if they hold doctrines we do not share with them.

To be explicit, no, I would not join a Christian denomination who supported abortion and gay marriage. In fact, my congregation split from a church who adopted these policies. Still, I would not deny the Methodist Church is a Christian denomination even though you would. That's were we differ and that is the difference between the personal and political beliefs I keep talking about.

 

[Marymog]

LDS Christians aren't Protestants, don't perform gay marriages, and done Condon abortion. This argument of yours is very off topic.

Yes, the LDS church is Protestant. That is unless you DON'T deny the universal authority of The Pope: Definition of PROTESTANT

I have respect for but disagree with some LDS doctrine. I already know they don't condone abortion or perform gay marriages.

Who are you to decide what "topic" I am to debate on the DEBATE FORUM?

 

[Wrangler]

Your entire "personal beliefs" vs "political beliefs" rhetoric makes ZERO sense. We are talking about what Scripture says. If you can't point out a vs from Scripture that supports what your personal belief, then you are only giving your opinion. It appears from our conversation that your OPINION is that if a denomination calls itself Christian then you believe they are, even if they violate Scripture. That makes zero sense.

See post #475.

Mary, at this point, I think we've exhausted the conversation. You believe one can lose their salvation over doctrine. I do not. And it makes perfect sense. You are, as always, willfully ignorant.

Do you believe Jesus has more Grace than you and me?

 

[JohnDB]

God the Father is the Father of ALL. Yes or no.

Do you deny that? Cause I don't- He's the Father of all. Which only by technicality makes everyone siblings.

And yes, this is a theology test. "Anti-cultist" theology is all about man ignoring Christ to instead invent gatekeeping theology tests ground no where in scripture. It's them literally denying Christ and the power of His atonement.

Your side stepping of the question is highly revealing.

You use names like they are tags instead of titles. And with this cleverly sounding system of theology, Mormons have created a different religion and God. They are not the same.

It's not a theology test. It's a difference of gods we worship. Yours just wants the appearance of ours. But they are vastly different. Your words are homiphones for the ones we use. You say the same ones but mean completely different things by them than we do.

And that is why Mormons are not Christians. Different Messiah and different God.

 

[Wrangler]

Who are you to decide what "topic" I am to debate on the DEBATE FORUM?

Do you praise God with that mouth (and pen/type) that pours constant vitriol to sons and daughter's of God? Asking for a friend.

 

[Marymog]

I did answer this question.

You don't want to acknowledge the answer because it conflicts with your denial that they are Christian - even if they hold doctrines we do not share with them.

To be explicit, no, I would not join a Christian denomination who supported abortion and gay marriage. In fact, my congregation split from a church who adopted these policies. Still, I would not deny the Methodist Church is a Christian denomination even though you would. That's were we differ and that is the difference between the personal and political beliefs I keep talking about.

Halleluiah......FINALLY an answer.

I suspect the "they" in your statement means LDS? I have never said that LDS are not Christians. Show me the post that I denied that they are Christians. (HINT: don't waste your time looking because you won't find it).

I suspect you would NOT join a "Christian" denomination who supports abortion and gay marriage because Scripture says that both are a sin. Both are a violation of Christian teaching/doctrine and the teachings of Christ. So, that leads me back to your original statement (Mormons say they are Christian. Thats good enough for me) which started this entire discussion!

If a denomination calls themselves Christian but they don't adhere to what is clearly written in Scripture, then they are NOT Christian. Is there any teaching/doctrine of the Mormon/LDS faith that is not in Scripture? (I already know you are going to dodge this question)

Curious Mary


BTW....you call the support of gay marriage and abortion a POLICY that was adopted by your former colleagues. Just to be clear and FACTUAL, what they adopted is not a Christian teaching of Christ and it is a clear violation of Scripture..........a violation of Scripture is not a policy....it is a SIN! It is referred to in Scripture as a FALSE DOCTRINE.