There's a twist! Tell me truly, do you really actually think Ron was saying Jesus was created? Or are you just playing that word game?
Much love!
Are Jehovah's witnesses real Christians?
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Much love!
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
This is absolutely true....a faithful servant of Christ does not deny that he is what he called himself..."the son of God". (John 10:31-36) Read that pasage of scripture and educate yourself about what Jesus taught. See whom the Father himself called "gods".
If you can find me a single verse in scripture where either Yahweh or Jesus ever said that the son was Almighty God, I'd like to see it.
You cannot make doctrines out of insinuations and suggestions made about what scripture means....it has to be clear and unequivocal....and it has to have internal agreement with the Bible as a whole. The trinity is absent from the Hebrew scriptures because the Jews never believed that Jesus was God incarnate. Trinities existed only in paganism. The first Christians who wrote the NT did not believe in a trinity either because Christ, their teacher never once mentioned it. It did not become official church doctrine until nearly 400 years after Christ died. Please explain that.
Are you serious?Jesus is a very important part of our beliefs, and he is not and never will be a "nobody" to us. None of us "deny Jesus Christ" as God's anointed servant...that is what the scriptures call him.....never is he said to be "God the Son" and you will find that description in any passage of scripture.
What you believe about Jesus Christ is to us, claiming Jesus and his Father are liars.
What is, and what is not "Christianity" is up to Jesus to decide...not you or I.
Won't it be interesting to see who is shocked on the day we all find out? Are we part of the "many" or of the "few"?
BARNEY BRIGHT
Well-Known Member
Jehovah's Witnesses believe Jesus is, the Christ, the Son of the living God.(Matthew 16:13-17) That's what scripture says Peter believed, and Jesus said that it was Jesus Father who is God that influenced him to say that, and John 20:17 says that Jesus has a Father and God that is also Jesus apostles and disciples Father and God. The Jews recognized YHWH as being their God, so it was YHWH God who influenced Peter to say that Jesus was and is the Christ, the Son of the living God. So those who say that Jesus is YHWH God, scripture denies that Jesus is YHWH God. Scripture shows us that YHWH God is the Father and God of Jesus so YHWH God is also our Father and God.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Yes believe he is the one sent forth by the only true God( Father) John 17:3)= the messiah.
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
LOL...I can't find a single 'abomination' in the whole book....and I have been studying many different translations for years.
It sure helps to study original language words which usually show up the errors in many translation.
What I find interesting is that when a so-called error in translation is detected, it has to do with going against a different rendering in a pro-trinitarian Bible. It's easy enough to see which one is correct.....IMO.
Please reread the conversation Marks,
Ronald Nolette said:
Yes He is but not in the way the Watchtower falsely teaches
Ron himself stated he is created, but not in the way the Watchtower believes.
Ronald Nolette
Well-Known Member
And the sin the Jews needed to repent of in Acts 2 was not believing Jesus was their Messiah! Repentance merely means changing ones mind. Stopping from doing a sin is called stopping from doing a sin. And if one does teh sin 70X7 in a day and acknowledges it before God (1 John 1:9) then they are forgiven 70X7 in a day!
Jehovah's Witness did not witness Jesus Christ walking on the earth after His ressurection as the apostles did. This is why the apostles are His witnesses,
Acts 1:22,
-beginning from the baptism of John to that day when Jesus was taken up from us, one of these must become a witness with us(apostles) of His ressurection.
Jehovahs are not witnesses to Jesus' ressurection from the dead.
They also are not christians for they deny Jesus is deity, they deny He is God on earth.
John 8:24, Jesus is teaching that if you do not believe I AM God. You will die in your sins.
Jehovahs Witness are not believers in Jesus.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
But isn't Jesus THE Witness - the TRUE Witness of Jehovah in Rev 3:14? If not please explain the verse?
You are changing my subject matter, apostles witness, to Christ ressurection.
To Jesus being the witness.
Acts chapter 1 is speaking of the qualifications of apostles.
No one qualifies to be an apostle if they did not see Jesus after His ressurection in physical form on earth!!!
No Jehovah witness has seen Jesus with their literal eyes in His fleshly form after His ressurection.
This is why they cannot be His witnesses. Only the apostles qualified the as eye witnesses to Jesus.
btw, no Jehovah witness can even be found in the new testament.
Only christians.
Now as far as Revelation 3:14, where does it refer to men other than the apostles as being Jesus' witnesses?
Your argument has nothing to do with men, that passage is referring to Jesus Himself.
Not so. You are playing word games.
Here, you acknowledge that Ron said "point blank" that Jesus was not created. And you ask the question, "Is not the faithful and true witness Jesus?" To which Ron answered,
Answering, Yes, He is (the true witness). You already know Ron said "point blank" that Jesus was not created.
Yet you reply,
Word games. Vanity.
@Ronald Nolette
Much love!
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
LOL The subject of this this is about JW not Apostles. Funny how you tried to call me out for you changing the subject. :-)
LOL The Jehovah Witnesses name makes it clear who the passage refers to, Jehovah. But you are doing what you accuse me of; changing the subject to who the passage refers to from who is the witness.
So, I ask you again. Who is the one talking in Rev 3:14, commanding John to write down his words, calling himself the Amen, the Faithful, the one who is the True Witness to the beginning of Creation, if not Jesus?
You do not meet the qualifications to be a witness of Jesus Christ. The bible only uses the term in reference to the apostles. To claim you are Jehovahs witness is claiming you are an apostle.
Give me book, chapter and verse that says people today are Jesus' witnesses? You did not witness anything. You did like everyone, you read it in the Bible. The title you wear is condemned by God Himself. You do not qualify according to Gods standards. Acts 1:22. You have not proven you are a qualified witness of Jesus Christ. John the apostle wrote Revelation
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Eternal life is far too important to follow the false paths of many . Follow JESUS and make sure its JESUS .
Open bibles and learn them well .
Open bibles and learn them well .
Aunty Jane
Well-Known Member
It never occurs to some that Jesus was not his own Witness.
What is a witness anyway? It is someone who testifies about a matter that is known to them, either as an eye witness, or as one versed and educated in a certain subject.
Paul wrote in Hebrews 12:1-2.....
“Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2 looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.” (ESV)
These are Christian witnesses of the God of Jesus and the apostles....a God they identified clearly in 1 Corinthians 8:5-6.....
“For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeedthere are many “gods” and many “lords”— 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.”
The Bible tells us the truth, but those who don’t know what the Bible teaches, will continue to promote the lies promoted by an apostate church system, instituted centuries after Christ’s death...these are the weeds of Jesus parable.....but 2 Corinthians 4:3-4 tells us why they cannot see it.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Here is where special definitions are sought. One can testify in court for themselves but a witness, like a mediator, must necessarily be a 3rd party.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
If one reads 1 Cor 6:9-11= a list of unacceptable sins, it clearly states--this is what some of you were= past tense--those turned around and stopped doing the sin. If they continued it says--Will not enter Gods kingdom.
Keiw
Well-Known Member
Jesus didnt know it-John 20:17, Rev 3:12--nor did his teachers- Coll 1:3, 1Cor 15:24-28, Eph 1:13,17--1Peter 1:3-- They all taught the Father is Jesus' God= the true gospel.
Revelation 3:14 John the Apostle who is an eye witnesses to Jesus Christ's ressurection from the dead, wrote the book of Revelation.
It is an unscriptual title to call oneself a Jehovahs witness today. We must speak as the Bible speaks, 1Peter 4:11. The only folks in Bible days that said they were witnesses of Jesus' ressurection were the apostles. You cannot find them ever referring to themselves as Jehovahs witnesses.
You only find the apostles referring to themselves as children, christians, brothers in Christ etc. Never Jehovahs witnesses.
To call one self a Jehovahs witness is not a title first century christians ever used of themselves.
It is only in recent times is this description of a religious group use this as their identity.
They called themselves Christians.
Hebrews 12:1-2 is not scriptural evidence of christians referring to each other as "Jehovahs witnesses".
Hebrews 12:1-2
-Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and the sin which doth so easily beset us and let us run with patience the race that is easily set before us.
The writer of Hebrews phrase "a cloud of witnesses" is speaking figuratively of christians running a race that can be very lonely struggle and run this race for Jesus.
The "cloud of witnesses " are those christians that have gone on before us as the 11th chapter of Hebrews speaks about. These christians are physically dead. Examples in Hebrews 11 of those of faith(cloud of witnesses) are: Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sara, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Rahab, Gedeon, Barak, Samson, Jephthea, David, Samuel, the prophets. They are now with Christ in the after life. They are figuratively spoken of as being "spectators in our race" giving us comfort we are not the only saints struggling with the race that we must complete. Yes, the cloud of witnesses are witnesses to Christ for they are with Christ! Not one Bible passage refers to living christians on earth as Jehovahs witnesses. Except for the apostles being the only that qualified as eye witnesses, Acts 1:22.
1Corinthians 8:5-6
-but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by Him.
Jesus is man and God, depending on the context of said passage, the scriptures can refer to Him in His flesh or as in His true form i.e. Gods only Son. John 1:1-3, proves Jesus is in the God-head.
Jesus worked on the earth, took the form of man, became flesh. This differentiates him from the Father and from the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is equal to His Father, when He is not in the flesh,
Hebrews 1:4 shows the change from Jesus in His true person contrasted with Jesus in the flesh, Man in Hebrews 2:9,
Hebrews 1:4
-having become so much better than the Angel's as Jesus by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. Jesus is no longer flesh, He is greater than the angels.
Now Jesus in the flesh as Man,
Hebrews 2:9,
-but we see Jesus who was made a little lower than the Angel's for the suffering of death crowed with glory and honor that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.
Jesus is in fact equal to His Father but not when He was in the flesh.
In Hebrews 1:8 it is said of Jesus He is God,
-But to the Son He says: Your throne, O GOD is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of YOUR KINGDOM. Therefore God, Your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.
Jesus is clearly spoken of by the writer of Hebrews as God.
It is an unscriptual title to call oneself a Jehovahs witness today. We must speak as the Bible speaks, 1Peter 4:11. The only folks in Bible days that said they were witnesses of Jesus' ressurection were the apostles. You cannot find them ever referring to themselves as Jehovahs witnesses.
You only find the apostles referring to themselves as children, christians, brothers in Christ etc. Never Jehovahs witnesses.
To call one self a Jehovahs witness is not a title first century christians ever used of themselves.
It is only in recent times is this description of a religious group use this as their identity.
They called themselves Christians.
Hebrews 12:1-2 is not scriptural evidence of christians referring to each other as "Jehovahs witnesses".
Hebrews 12:1-2
-Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight and the sin which doth so easily beset us and let us run with patience the race that is easily set before us.
The writer of Hebrews phrase "a cloud of witnesses" is speaking figuratively of christians running a race that can be very lonely struggle and run this race for Jesus.
The "cloud of witnesses " are those christians that have gone on before us as the 11th chapter of Hebrews speaks about. These christians are physically dead. Examples in Hebrews 11 of those of faith(cloud of witnesses) are: Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sara, Isaac, Jacob, Joseph, Moses, Rahab, Gedeon, Barak, Samson, Jephthea, David, Samuel, the prophets. They are now with Christ in the after life. They are figuratively spoken of as being "spectators in our race" giving us comfort we are not the only saints struggling with the race that we must complete. Yes, the cloud of witnesses are witnesses to Christ for they are with Christ! Not one Bible passage refers to living christians on earth as Jehovahs witnesses. Except for the apostles being the only that qualified as eye witnesses, Acts 1:22.
1Corinthians 8:5-6
-but to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things and we in Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by Him.
Jesus is man and God, depending on the context of said passage, the scriptures can refer to Him in His flesh or as in His true form i.e. Gods only Son. John 1:1-3, proves Jesus is in the God-head.
Jesus worked on the earth, took the form of man, became flesh. This differentiates him from the Father and from the Holy Spirit.
Jesus is equal to His Father, when He is not in the flesh,
Hebrews 1:4 shows the change from Jesus in His true person contrasted with Jesus in the flesh, Man in Hebrews 2:9,
Hebrews 1:4
-having become so much better than the Angel's as Jesus by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. Jesus is no longer flesh, He is greater than the angels.
Now Jesus in the flesh as Man,
Hebrews 2:9,
-but we see Jesus who was made a little lower than the Angel's for the suffering of death crowed with glory and honor that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.
Jesus is in fact equal to His Father but not when He was in the flesh.
In Hebrews 1:8 it is said of Jesus He is God,
-But to the Son He says: Your throne, O GOD is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of YOUR KINGDOM. Therefore God, Your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness more than Your companions.
Jesus is clearly spoken of by the writer of Hebrews as God.
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