Are Jehovah's witnesses real Christians?

[Wrangler]

I just did- you are ignoring it again as usual.

ME: No, you did not post proof. Just a typical trinitarian tactic of posting many verses having nothing to do with the subject, hoping something sticks to the wall. Just post one verse that reads something like The nature of God is a trinity - consisting of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit who are co-equal, co-substantial and co-eternal - and if you do not believe this, you cannot be saved but are damned to hell forever. Just one verse please.

YOU:

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What we teach is either truth or fiction sir. I showed you point blank where we are to pray to Jehovah by Jesus' instruction. I showed you an example of him praying to his God, and we are to follow his example, all from the Bible, you are free to believe it or not.

The verse in Acts does not say what you just said from before. You cannot add or take away from God’s Word.
Your whole religion is about adding to God’s Word. In some cases, you take away from God’s Word when it suits your purposes (like when I use the Bible to refute your false belief and you reply with denying those words of Scripture and also when you make claims there is no actual bible in existence). You deny the Bible as a consistent authority.

Revelation 22:18-19 says,
“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What we teach is either truth or fiction sir. I showed you point blank where we are to pray to Jehovah by Jesus' instruction. I showed you an example of him praying to his God, and we are to follow his example, all from the Bible, you are free to believe it or not.

Reasoning with me on your false religion is futile. I see your religion as no different than the Jim Jones cult or if there was some kind of silly cult that forced you to have poodles bite your fingertips as you did backflips through hoops of fire (as you barked like a monkey). It’s obvious to any unbiased researcher that the JW religion teaches fiction. The Watch Tower made false prophecies. They Watch Tower abused people and lied to them. The Watch Tower changes doctrines when they held to those doctrines for a really long time. The Watch Tower hides things from their own members that makes themselves look bad, etcetera. But go ahead and follow men and not God’s Word alone. Your own tactics involving the Bible should show your own dishonesty involving your handling the Word. You have used a verse to say something that this verse does not say and when I use a verse against your false JW beliefs, you either ignore it or you say that the Bible does not exist, etcetera, etcetera. There really is no point in this discussion unless you make the Bible your authority. Right now, the Watch Tower is your authority, and you will not admit it’s faults and problems when a person can investigate these faults for themselves. The JW religions is so obviously false for many reasons, but people (like the JW’s) see what they want to see because they have been sucked in and like certain aspects of their false religion. Any discussion here is not going to win you to salvation in Jesus Christ (Who is God Almighty in the flesh) unless you submit to God’s Word (the Bible) alone as your authority and you also see the darkness of your own JW religion.

Your religion is simply bonkers and crazy. No chance of you even winning here unless you get somebody that is totally ignorant about your false religion and they have no idea about the Bible and they have not been transformed by it to know that it is the Bible Alone that is our authority. I have tasted of the good Word of God. What you offer is poop. Pure and simple. There is no chance of your false JW religion as being even remotely tempting or even remotely true as we talk here because like I said, I see your religion so obviously false for a TON of reasons. So don’t act like you are trying to convince me of your foolishness. I have no interest in following something that is so obviously fake. It’s like your a poop salesman. I have no interest in buying poop.

I mean, have you ever watched ex testimonies of Jehovah’s Witnesses before?
If your religion is the truth, then your false religion should be able to stand against why they left. Some left because of abuse. Others left because they seen that the Watch Tower lied, and many other reasons. But you just keep blindly believing. That is why your appeal here for your false religion is simply dumb beyond measure. Sorry if my words appear to be harsh here. I love you in Jesus Christ, but I hate your false JW religion. It’s false. It’s so obvious to see that it’s false.

 

[Robert Gwin]

.



The human mind is produced by a three-pound lump of flabby organic
tissue; and not even all three of those pounds are utilized for cognitive
processes; and in point of fact, something like 60% of the human brain's
mass is fat.

Human logic has its uses; but only up to a point, i.e. human logic is
confined, boxed in, limited. The human mind's struggle to comprehend God's
supernatural aspects is sort of like a gnat attempting to drink up the
Atlantic ocean. Just as the gnat lacks a big enough stomach, so the Earth's
current strain of hominids lacks a big enough brain; and with just the right
bump on the head, or an aneurism in just the right location, and your IQ
will drop to the level of a termite and you won't even be able to remember
your loved ones or your very best friend.
_

Maybe you will like this Weber, todays text:
*** Text for Monday, October 3, 2022 ***
Who made a mouth for man . . . ? Is it not I, Jehovah?—Ex. 4:11.
The human brain is a marvel of engineering. When you were in your mother’s womb, your brain was built according to a preset plan, and thousands of new brain cells were constructed every minute! Researchers estimate that an adult’s brain contains close to 100 billion special cells called neurons—assembled into a package that weighs about 3.3 pounds (1.5 kg). One of the brain’s amazing abilities concerns speech. With each word you say, your brain has to coordinate the movement of some 100 muscles in your tongue, throat, lips, jaw, and chest. All those muscles have to move according to precise timing if the words are to be understood. A study published in 2019 showed that newborn babies can pick out individual words. This finding reinforces what many researchers believe—that we are born with the ability to recognize and learn languages. Certainly, our ability to speak is a gift from God. w20.05 22-23 ¶8-9

 

[Robert Gwin]

I just did- you are ignoring it again as usual.

Really?
Well you see that I did post

and you are still worng:

Jesus is Yahwehs redeemer and He is called yahweh of hosts- that is the bible like it or not!

My avatar shows 6 of my 9 grandkids. With my six children and awesome wife I am blessed beyond what I deserve.

I am kind of dense Ron, can you point out to me what part of that is your evidence sir?

 

[Robert Gwin]

The verse in Acts does not say what you just said from before. You cannot add or take away from God’s Word.
Your whole religion is about adding to God’s Word. In some cases, you take away from God’s Word when it suits your purposes (like when I use the Bible to refute your false belief and you reply with denying those words of Scripture and also when you make claims there is no actual bible in existence). You deny the Bible as a consistent authority.

Revelation 22:18-19 says,
“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.”

As I said, you do not have to believe it, but I do sir.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Reasoning with me on your false religion is futile. I see your religion as no different than the Jim Jones cult or if there was some kind of silly cult that forced you to have poodles bite your fingertips as you did backflips through hoops of fire (as you barked like a monkey). It’s obvious to any unbiased researcher that the JW religion teaches fiction. The Watch Tower made false prophecies. They Watch Tower abused people and lied to them. The Watch Tower changes doctrines when they held to those doctrines for a really long time. The Watch Tower hides things from their own members that makes themselves look bad, etcetera. But go ahead and follow men and not God’s Word alone. Your own tactics involving the Bible should show your own dishonesty involving your handling the Word. You have used a verse to say something that this verse does not say and when I use a verse against your false JW beliefs, you either ignore it or you say that the Bible does not exist, etcetera, etcetera. There really is no point in this discussion unless you make the Bible your authority. Right now, the Watch Tower is your authority, and you will not admit it’s faults and problems when a person can investigate these faults for themselves. The JW religions is so obviously false for many reasons, but people (like the JW’s) see what they want to see because they have been sucked in and like certain aspects of their false religion. Any discussion here is not going to win you to salvation in Jesus Christ (Who is God Almighty in the flesh) unless you submit to God’s Word (the Bible) alone as your authority and you also see the darkness of your own JW religion.

Your religion is simply bonkers and crazy. No chance of you even winning here unless you get somebody that is totally ignorant about your false religion and they have no idea about the Bible and they have not been transformed by it to know that it is the Bible Alone that is our authority. I have tasted of the good Word of God. What you offer is poop. Pure and simple. There is no chance of your false JW religion as being even remotely tempting or even remotely true as we talk here because like I said, I see your religion so obviously false for a TON of reasons. So don’t act like you are trying to convince me of your foolishness. I have no interest in following something that is so obviously fake. It’s like your a poop salesman. I have no interest in buying poop.

I mean, have you ever watched ex testimonies of Jehovah’s Witnesses before?
If your religion is the truth, then your false religion should be able to stand against why they left. Some left because of abuse. Others left because they seen that the Watch Tower lied, and many other reasons. But you just keep blindly believing. That is why your appeal here for your false religion is simply dumb beyond measure. Sorry if my words appear to be harsh here. I love you in Jesus Christ, but I hate your false JW religion. It’s false. It’s so obvious to see that it’s false.

We will continue to reason on Scripture until Jehovah says the work is through BH.

If you think one of our teachings is false, lets talk about it.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Those things originated in pagan false god worship ceremonies= straight off the table of demons. God remembers well where they originated. Catholicisms own encyclopedia says-- 1913,vol V, Page 227-- a great many pagan customs gravitated to Easter. The encyclopedias assure the same occurred for christmas--The saturnalia festival-Worship to the sun God--Where feasting and the exchanging of gifts to one another occurred, on or about Dec 25th. This is what became Christmas. Satan transforming into an angel of light doing those things, his teachers allow their flocks to participate 2Cor 11:12-15)

And Scripture says they are nothing! Paul said eat whatever is placed before you- that meant meat offered to idils.

Once again these are all just external things- shallow spiritual people look on the superficial, God looks on the heart!

Having a Christmas tree to worship the Druid king or pagan god is evil.

Having a Christmas tree to celebrate crass commercialism is evil.
Having a Christmas tree to celebrate the birth of Emmanuel (God becoming flesh and being with us) is OKAY according to the bible.

Romans 14
King James Version

14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.


YOu are weak in the faith so don't put a tree in your house. Course if you do you will be disfellowshipped.

1 Corinthians 10:25-30
King James Version

25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.

27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.

28 But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?

30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?


this is meat sacrificed to idols! Paul said eat and give thanks! but if one is with you and says it is sacrificed to idols- don't eat, because their conscience is weak!

Do you actually believe that Christmas trees are sacrificed to demons before they hit the tree lots?????????????????????

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Really?
Well you see that I did post

and you are still worng:

Jesus is Yahwehs redeemer and He is called yahweh of hosts- that is the bible like it or not!

My avatar shows 6 of my 9 grandkids. With my six children and awesome wife I am blessed beyond what I deserve.

I am kind of dense Ron, can you point out to me what part of that is your evidence sir?

Last time. If you cannot see it this time- then yes you are too dense spiritually. And I will even include a free grammar lesson and parse this compound sentence fo you.

Isaiah 44:6
King James Version

6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.


1. Thus saith Yahweh, King of Israel, I am the first.............
2. Thus saith Yahwehs redeemer--- Yahweh of hosts, I am the first...............

Jesus is called yahweh here!

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Continued From No.426

• John 14:16-17 . . I will request the Father and he will give you another
helper to be with you forever, the spirit of the truth, which the world cannot
receive, because it neither beholds it nor knows it. You know it, because it
remains with you and is in you.

• John 14:26 . .The helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my
name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the
things I told you.

Rank and file JWs are taught to believe that they obtain boldness in speaking
the word of God, and zealousness in engaging in the work of witnessing,
from "having" the holy spirit. (pg 382, Reasoning From The Scriptures)

However; when speaking of "having" the holy spirit, the JWs mean that it is
alongside them rather than inside them. Only a special guild of 144,000 JWs
actually have the spirit inside them. The special guild are known as the
anointed class; a label taken from 1John 2:27.

The non-anointed class-- a.k.a. the great crowd, a.k.a. the hewers of wood
and haulers of water --are in a very serious condition. Here's why:

• Rom 8:9 . .You are in harmony, not with the flesh, but with the spirit, if
God's spirit truly dwells in you.

Seeing as how God's spirit does not truly dwell "in" John Q and Jane Doe
missionary, then they are, by default, in harmony with the flesh. That only
makes things worse.

• Rom 8:5-8 . . For those who are in accord with the flesh set their minds on
the things of the flesh, but those in accord with the spirit on the things of
the spirit. For the minding of the flesh means death, but the minding of the
spirit means life and peace; because the minding of the flesh means enmity
with God, for it is not under subjection to the law of God, nor, in fact, can it
be. So those who are in harmony with the flesh cannot please God.

The non-anointed class' situation is just too ironic for words. They displease
God, and He displeases them; yet they go door-to-door sincerely believing
themselves Jehovah's friends and allies.
_

 

[tigger 2]

Last time. If you cannot see it this time- then yes you are too dense spiritually. And I will even include a free grammar lesson and parse this compound sentence fo you.

Isaiah 44:6
King James Version

6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.


1. Thus saith Yahweh, King of Israel, I am the first.............
2. Thus saith Yahwehs redeemer--- Yahweh of hosts, I am the first...............

Jesus is called yahweh here!

.............................................................................

Isaiah 44:6

Is. 44:6 is a “pronoun confusion” trick. It’s extremely poor, but some trinitarians are actually desperate enough for “evidence” to use it anyway. Is. 44:6 in the American Standard Version (ASV) says, “Thus saith Jehovah [the LORD - KJV], the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts....” The “proof” here, according to a few trinitarians, is that there are two ‘different’ Jehovahs [LORDs] mentioned! And one is the redeemer of the other!

The trick here is that these trinitarians pretend the pronoun “his” refers to Jehovah when it actually refers to Israel. The following trinitarian Bibles, however, actually translate it correctly (e.g., “Thus says the LORD, Israel’s King and redeemer, the LORD of hosts” - NAB): NIV, JB, LB, GNB, REB, NJB, etc.

And the trinitarian Bibles which use capitalized pronouns for God (“Me, My, He, His,” etc.) also show, by their lack of capitalization, that “his” refers to Israel in this scripture: “Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts” - NASB, HCSB, KJ21, MEV, MLB, NKJV, TLV, YLT.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Please one question to any that post.
Will you identify yourselves as JW's or LDS please ?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Is. 44:6 is a “pronoun confusion” trick. It’s extremely poor, but some trinitarians are actually desperate enough for “evidence” to use it anyway. Is. 44:6 in the American Standard Version (ASV) says, “Thus saith Jehovah [the LORD - KJV], the King of Israel, and his Redeemer, Jehovah of hosts....” The “proof” here, according to a few trinitarians, is that there are two ‘different’ Jehovahs [LORDs] mentioned! And one is the redeemer of the other!

I don't know of any who believe the triune god of the bible that think what you just said here. We do not believe God needs a redeemr. Jesus is the redeemer sent by God. Is this some kind of subtly deceptive ploy? We know that Yahweh the Son is the redeemer sent by Yahweh trhe Father to redeem man, so He is yahweh the Fathers redeemer, not for HImself but sent by Him. C'mon our first graders know that in Sunday school.

The trick here is that these trinitarians pretend the pronoun “his” refers to Jehovah when it actually refers to Israel. The following trinitarian Bibles, however, actually translate it correctly (e.g., “Thus says the LORD, Israel’s King and redeemer, the LORD of hosts” - NAB): NIV, JB, LB, GNB, REB, NJB, etc.

And the trinitarian Bibles which use capitalized pronouns for God (“Me, My, He, His,” etc.) also show, by their lack of capitalization, that “his” refers to Israel in this scripture: “Thus says the LORD, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the LORD of hosts” - NASB, HCSB, KJ21, MEV, MLB, NKJV, TLV, YLT.

YOur error is that you imply God is a lousy grammatician. To say He is Yahweh twice in one sentence to describe three things is grammatically untenable.

The pronoun does not refer to Israel. In the Hebrew there is no 3rd personal pronoun, but has to be added in English to translate properly!

And even if Israel is teh subject of that personal pronoun, because it is a compound sentence Israel's redeemer is Yahweh of hosts not Yahweh King of Israel

English capitalization means nothing. You need to go back to the Hebrew to see that two people are speaking here. YOu are just wrong.

 

[tigger 2]

RN: Your response (#473 above) says a lot about how well you research.

There is a personal pronoun for "his" and it is recorded in the most basic OT Hebrew primers:

3. Possessive

• שלו
  Shelo
  “His” / “Its” - A Comprehensive Guide to Hebrew Pronouns (hebrewpod101.com

The 'subject' of a personal pronoun can be any preceding noun (antecedent). A compound sentence has nothing to do with it.

Capitalization in trinitarian Bible translations show that its trinitarian translators believe that the capitalized pronoun refers to God not to anyone else. The absence of the capital letter in these Bibles indicates someone other than God.

 

[Keiw]

And Scripture says they are nothing! Paul said eat whatever is placed before you- that meant meat offered to idils.

Once again these are all just external things- shallow spiritual people look on the superficial, God looks on the heart!

Having a Christmas tree to worship the Druid king or pagan god is evil.

Having a Christmas tree to celebrate crass commercialism is evil.
Having a Christmas tree to celebrate the birth of Emmanuel (God becoming flesh and being with us) is OKAY according to the bible.

Romans 14
King James Version

14 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.

2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.

4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.


YOu are weak in the faith so don't put a tree in your house. Course if you do you will be disfellowshipped.

1 Corinthians 10:25-30
King James Version

25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:

26 For the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof.

27 If any of them that believe not bid you to a feast, and ye be disposed to go; whatsoever is set before you, eat, asking no question for conscience sake.

28 But if any man say unto you, this is offered in sacrifice unto idols, eat not for his sake that shewed it, and for conscience sake: for the earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof:

29 Conscience, I say, not thine own, but of the other: for why is my liberty judged of another man's conscience?

30 For if I by grace be a partaker, why am I evil spoken of for that for which I give thanks?


this is meat sacrificed to idols! Paul said eat and give thanks! but if one is with you and says it is sacrificed to idols- don't eat, because their conscience is weak!

Do you actually believe that Christmas trees are sacrificed to demons before they hit the tree lots?????????????????????

The worst part of christmas = santa, unscrambled = satan, he steals 98% of the christmas holiday away from Jesus. Dec 25th am its all about santa first. From the day after thanksgiving up until that point all about santa.
The trees dont have to be sacrificed to demons. the fact that those parts( practices) originated in satans religions is what matters.

 

[The Learner]

The Greek Grammar and Context does not allow for merely kissing one's feet out of Respect.
"
In Scripture there is as yet no single term by which the Three Divine Persons are denoted together. The word trias (of which the Latin trinitas is a translation) is first found in Theophilus of Antioch about A.D. 180. He speaks of "the Trinity of God [the Father], His Word and His Wisdom (To Autolycus II.15). The term may, of course, have been in use before his time. Afterwards it appears in its Latin form of trinitas in Tertullian (On Pudicity 21). In the next century the word is in general use. It is found in many passages of Origen ("In Ps. xvii", 15). The first creed in which it appears is that of Origen's pupil, Gregory Thaumaturgus. In his Ekthesis tes pisteos composed between 260 and 270, he writes:

There is therefore nothing created, nothing subject to another in the Trinity: nor is there anything that has been added as though it once had not existed, but had entered afterwards: therefore the Father has never been without the Son, nor the Son without the Spirit: and this same Trinity is immutable and unalterable forever (P.G., X, 986).
"
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Blessed Trinity

Do I need to post Bowman's Outline from Scipture on the Trinity or are you going to pretend it was not posted a few times already?

 

[The Learner]

The bible writers-all were Jewish to begin with, before following Jesus. Every Israelite on earth knew the Messiah has a God(Psalm 45:7) thus would never bow in worship to the Messiah. That Greek word-Proskenaue- translates-To bow and kiss the feet. 5 different meanings from Greek toEnglish-1) worship to God-2) Obesiance to a king-3) honor to a judge plus 2 others--Reality-They bowed in obesiance to Gods appointed king. Every intelligent person knows 100% God does not have a God-Jesus has a God-John 20:17, Rev 3:12. Catholicism translated errors in to fit their council additive of God being a trinity in 381 ce at the council of Constantinople. Catholicisms own encyclopedia teaches--No trinity was served prior to the end of the 4th century, and the apostles knew nothing of God being a trinity(New catholic Encyclopedia-1967-VolXIV, page299)-----Why????Because the Abrahamic God is a single being God=YHWH(Jehovah)--All mislead in the house divided(34,000) trinity religions) that will not stand, are being mislead into breaking Gods #1commandment daily.

The 34,000 quoute is well known to be a poor source. They count each Church as a denominitaion. In fact, there are hundreds of denomininations for the Catholic Church in their Encylopedia. I corresponded with the author of the Encyopedia and She explained that it was a social count, not an actual count of denominations.

 

[The Learner]

Polycarp (70-155/160). Bishop of Smyrna. Disciple of John the Apostle.

“O Lord God almighty . . . I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever” (n. 14, ed. Funk; PG 5.1040).

Justin Martyr (100?-165?). He was a Christian apologist and martyr.

“For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water” (First Apol., LXI).
Early Trinitarian Quotes
Quotes from the Early Church Fathers: on the Trinity - Apostles Creed

 

[The Learner]

The Didache
“After the foregoing instructions, baptize in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living [running] water. . . . If you have neither, pour water three times on the head, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” (Didache 7:1 [A.D. 70]).

Ignatius of Antioch
“[T]o the Church at Ephesus in Asia . . . chosen through true suffering by the will of the Father in Jesus Christ our God” (Letter to the Ephesians 1 [A.D. 110]).

“For our God, Jesus Christ, was conceived by Mary in accord with God’s plan: of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit” (ibid., 18:2).

Justin Martyr
“We will prove that we worship him reasonably; for we have learned that he is the Son of the true God himself, that he holds a second place, and the Spirit of prophecy a third. For this they accuse us of madness, saying that we attribute to a crucified man a place second to the unchangeable and eternal God, the Creator of all things; but they are ignorant of the mystery which lies therein” (First Apology 13:5–6 [A.D. 151]).

 

[The Learner]

Theophilus of Antioch
“It is the attribute of God, of the most high and almighty and of the living God, not only to be everywhere, but also to see and hear all; for he can in no way be contained in a place. . . . The three days before the luminaries were created are types of the Trinity: God, his Word, and his Wisdom” (To Autolycus 2:15 [A.D. 181]).

Irenaeus
“For the Church, although dispersed throughout the whole world even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and from their disciples the faith in one God, the Father Almighty . . . and in one Jesus Christ, the Son of God, who became flesh for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit” (Against Heresies 1:10:1 [A.D. 189]).

Tertullian
“We do indeed believe that there is only one God, but we believe that under this dispensation, or, as we say, oikonomia, there is also a Son of this one only God, his Word, who proceeded from him and through whom all things were made and without whom nothing was made. . . . We believe he was sent down by the Father, in accord with his own promise, the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete, the sanctifier of the faith of those who believe in the Father and the Son, and in the Holy Spirit” (Against Praxeas 2 [A.D. 216]).

“And at the same time the mystery of the oikonomia is safeguarded, for the unity is distributed in a Trinity. Placed in order, the three are the Father, Son, and Spirit. They are three, however, not in condition, but in degree; not in being, but in form; not in power, but in kind; of one being, however, and one condition and one power, because he is one God of whom degrees and forms and kinds are taken into account in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” (ibid.).