Are Doctrines affected by Modern Versions

[reformed1689]

even the KJV 1611 which I use exclusive. yes, even the trusted 1611 I use.

You actually use the 1611? I doubt it.

 

[reformed1689]

The ignorance is upon the part of the Preface (NKJV) writers, not mine own. Mss (codices, palimpsests, papyrii, etc) came in miniscules (lower case only), majescules/Uncials (all capitals), and script (like a cursive), and some shorthand. The point made was not about the original mss (which no one alive on earth among the human family today has ever seen, we only have distant copies of copies and fragments of copies), but about what the Preface writers stated as "intent" on lowercase and capitals in their translation (NKJV, under scrutiny).

The point is, that's not changing Scripture. The capitalization is merely a translator choice. Nothing else.

 

[reformed1689]

Ha. Like the NIV on Mark 16:9-20?

[The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20.]

9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.

'earliest' - right and 'some'

Please read this:

https://brandplucked.webs.com/mark16920.htm

Yes like that. They are honest enough to include the fact that some manuscripts do include those verses.

 

[101G]

You actually use the 1611? I doubt it.

(smile) ...... always, for other translation I have found to be habitual liers.

PICJAG.

 

[Episkopos]

Or could it be that the doctrinal stance of the translator affects the translation? Or the limited or non-existent understanding of a particular text?

If non-spiritual men translate a mysterious sounding verse...or even a seeming error in their estimation...will they translate it to the best possible representation of the text at hand? Or will they opt for changing that into something they can understand with their own minds?

So in this regard ALL translations have been corrupted to some extent.

I am agonizing over a particularly obvious mistake from the LXX (Hebrew into Greek) whereby the text in one book of the bible has been altered to appear as it does in another book of the bible. The translator thought to correct the word of God. As if there were no layers of meaning to the truth that God is allowed to record in the word! And then that translation filters down into our translations from the LXX into the modern languages. (Yet the MSS is still intact in this regard).

the list could go on and on...

And this is due to the translations themselves being uninspired. But this lack of inspiration takes away from the original inspiration in some cases.

 

[Enoch111]

You actually use the 1611? I doubt it.

Why would you doubt that we still use the KJV of 1611 (with spellings, punctuation, and orthography updated)? I have already posted the Ten Commandments from both the original KJV (of which I own a copy) and the current KJV in another thread. However, you should go to this website and check it out for yourself.

OFFICIAL KING JAMES BIBLE ONLINE: AUTHORIZED KING JAMES VERSION (KJV)

 

[101G]

Or could it be the doctrinal stance affects the translation? Or the limited understanding of a text?

If non-spiritual men translate a mysterious sounding verse...or even a seeming error in their estimation...will they translate it to the best possible representation of the text at hand? Or will they opt for changing that into something they can understand with their own minds?

So in this regard ALL translations have been corrupted to some extent.

I am agonizing over a particularly obvious mistake from the LXX (Hebrew into Greek) whereby the text has been altered to appear as it does in another book of the bible. The translator thought to correct the word of God. As if there were no layers of meaning to the truth that God is allowed to record in the word! And then that translation filters down into our translations from the LXX into the modern languages. (Yet the MSS is still intact in this regard).

the list could go on and on...

And this is due to the translations themselves being uninspired. But this lack of inspiration takes away from the original inspiration in some cases.

I agree to a point. for the words of God in a book, that are inspired, are sealed to our, as you said, "UNDERSTANDING". scripture,
Isaiah 29:9 "Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.

Isaiah 29:10 "For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
Isaiah 29:11 "And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
Isaiah 29:12 "And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Now a warning
Isaiah 29:13 "Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Isaiah 29:14 "Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
Isaiah 29:15 "Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
Isaiah 29:16 "Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

So when was things turned upside down? reversed back to rightiousness let's check the record,
Acts 17:5 "But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.
Acts 17:6 "And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also"

that Gospel that was hid for the eyes of NATURAL men, meaning Isaiah 29:16 "Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

PICJAG.

 

[reformed1689]

Why would you doubt that we still use the KJV of 1611 (with spellings, punctuation, and orthography updated)?

That's the point. That is NOT the 1611.

 

[reformed1689]

(smile) ...... always, for other translation I have found to be habitual liers.

PICJAG.

Then please, scan us a couple of pages from your supposed 1611. I doubt you use it. I'm sure you probably use one of the later KJV editions.

 

[reformed1689]

Why would you doubt that we still use the KJV of 1611 (with spellings, punctuation, and orthography updated)? I have already posted the Ten Commandments from both the original KJV (of which I own a copy) and the current KJV in another thread. However, you should go to this website and check it out for yourself.

OFFICIAL KING JAMES BIBLE ONLINE: AUTHORIZED KING JAMES VERSION (KJV)

Of course, even the translators of the 1611 said their version should not be the end all be all.

 

[Episkopos]

I agree to a point. for the words of God in a book, that are inspired, are sealed to our, as you said, "UNDERSTANDING". scripture,
Isaiah 29:9 "Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.

Isaiah 29:10 "For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered.
Isaiah 29:11 "And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:
Isaiah 29:12 "And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.
Now a warning
Isaiah 29:13 "Wherefore the Lord said, Forasmuch as this people draw near me with their mouth, and with their lips do honour me, but have removed their heart far from me, and their fear toward me is taught by the precept of men:
Isaiah 29:14 "Therefore, behold, I will proceed to do a marvellous work among this people, even a marvellous work and a wonder: for the wisdom of their wise men shall perish, and the understanding of their prudent men shall be hid.
Isaiah 29:15 "Woe unto them that seek deep to hide their counsel from the LORD, and their works are in the dark, and they say, Who seeth us? and who knoweth us?
Isaiah 29:16 "Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

So when was things turned upside down? let'scheck the record,
Acts 17:5 "But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.
Acts 17:6 "And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also"

that Gospel that was hid for the eyes of NATURAL men, meaning Isaiah 29:16 "Surely your turning of things upside down shall be esteemed as the potter's clay: for shall the work say of him that made it, He made me not? or shall the thing framed say of him that framed it, He had no understanding?

PICJAG.

It should be remembered that every move of God in history was based on a living prophet...not just a book. We now have a book but no one to give us the actual words from God. There is a famine in the land...not of bibles...but of actual words from God intervening in our lives with power to change the world. That is what is lacking.

We need actual intervention of God...but we eschew prophets. We think a dead letter is better than a living word.

 

[101G]

That's the point. That is NOT the 1611.

as they say the proof is in the putting.

may I ask you this, "is the LORD the same person as the "Lord?" yes or no this is capitalization time.

PICJAG

 

[101G]

We need actual intervention of God...but we eschew prophets. We think a dead letter is better than a living word.

this is what I speak to you,
Matthew 18:7 "Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

Matthew 18:8 "Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

PICJAG.

 

[reformed1689]

as they say the proof is in the putting.

may I ask you this, "is the LORD the same person as the "Lord?" yes or no this is capitalization time.

PICJAG

You are going to have to give more context.

 

[reformed1689]

It should be remembered that every move of God in history was based on a living prophet...not just a book. We now have a book but no one to give us the actual words from God. There is a famine in the land...not of bibles...but of actual words from God intervening in our lives with power to change the world. That is what is lacking.

We need actual intervention of God...but we eschew prophets. We think a dead letter is better than a living word.

And this is about the most ridiculous thing I have heard. And it also shows you do not believe Scripture is sufficient. How dare you?!

 

[101G]

You are going to have to give more context.

sure, there is doctrine that say that there are three person in the Godhead, and one of them is identified as the "LORD"/Father, and the other is "Lord" Son. and these are two separate persons. now the Doctrine that is believed is this true with the different title of "LORD"/Father, and Son/"Lord. your answer?

PICJAG.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

Lets compare one verse, 1 John 4:3:

NIV - but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

RSV - and every spirit which does not confess Jesus is not of God. This is the spirit of antichrist, of which you heard that it was coming, and now it is in the world already.

ASV and every spirit that confesseth not Jesus is not of God: and this is the spirit of the antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already.

KJV - And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

We see here in 1 John 4:3 that the NIV takes out the whole point in the text, "NIV leaves out the fact that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh--yet another swipe at the divinity of Christ." https://mundall.com/erik/NIV-KJV.htm

The NIV does a good job in translating some verses, but over all the bad outweighs the good that I do not even consider the NIV to be the word of God.

From the NIV preface (2011): (my emp)

"The first concern of the translators has continued to be the accuracy of the translation and its faithfulness to the intended meaning of the biblical writers. This has moved the translators to go beyond a formal word-for-word rendering of the original texts."

With the NIV you are not even getting a word for word translation but instead you are getting the translators theological bias being substituted in for a word for word and in the case of the NIV they slipping in a Calvinistic bias into it.

 

[101G]

let me help you out,
Zechariah 12:10 "And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

in context is this the Father, or the Son speaking?

PICJAG.

 

[Enoch111]

Of course, even the translators of the 1611 said their version should not be the end all be all.

You forgot to tell us that they also said that their version was meant to be an outstanding version to which none could justly take exception.

"Truly (good Christian Reader) we never thought from the beginning, that we should need to make a new Translation, nor yet to make of a bad one a good one... but to make a good one better, or out of many good ones, one principal good one, not justly to be excepted against; that hath been our endeavor, that our mark. To that purpose there were many chosen, that were greater in other men's eyes than in their own, and that sought the truth rather than their own praise."

That this Bible was considered to be the sole English Bible for over 300 years speaks for itself.

The reason why Christians today in the 21st century should continue with this translation is very simple -- all modern Bible versions in English since 1881 have been corrupted, because they used corrupted Hebrew and Greek texts (known as *critical texts*).

And for those who want an even more up-to-date KJV, all you have to do is read the King James 2000 Bible.

 

[reformed1689]

sure, there is doctrine that say that there are three person in the Godhead, and one of them is identified as the "LORD"/Father, and the other is "Lord" Son. and these are two separate persons. now the Doctrine that is believed is this true with the different title of "LORD"/Father, and Son/"Lord. your answer?

PICJAG.

LORD does not mean Father in the translations that use all caps for Lord. And "Lord" does not equal son. You really have no idea what you are talking about.