Are Christians to forgive everyone or only those who repent?

[Helen]

The thing that I wonder about is that if Christians too readily forgive that it a) emboldens a wrongdoer b) sees to it that the behavior is repeated.

There are some times when it is right to fight - I just have a hard time figuring out when. You know if your child does something wrong and you just forgive them without disciplining them they'll likely repeat the bad behavior. Sometimes I think it works that way with other adults.

If someone drives drunk you don't just give them a pass - they pay a heavy price. I just wonder if Christians may be actually harmful for not holding wrongdoers accountable.

And sometimes I think if the offense is so great then at times there is no choice but to terminate a relationship permanently.

Hi there.
No I don't agree they we don't forgive EVERY time...we do..then leave it to God and the law of the land to deal out any punishment needed.

If we choose not to forgive..I believe we are 'playing God' in our own lives.
We either trust God or we don't.

Once we start think that we have the perfect judgement to pick and choose who we forgive and who we don't....it is a slippery path.

But hey...that is just my two cents

 

[Helen]

lol SG..... I'm a single man :)

Then some woman has lost the chance of finding a good and gracious man.

Bless you brother

 

[quietthinker]

I don't suppose you have a verse(s)

sorry sbg, I don't have any verses that come to mind although there is this one I just thought of, 'trust in the Lord with all your heart and he will direct your ways'

 

[Helen]

I'm beginning to understand that the more His Holy Spirit shines His light into our hearts, the more we see of our sinfulness, and hence...the "hating" - because it is ugly. But when we are given an opportunity to turn away from those sins, I see this as striving... It has to be the sin we hate, and well we should!; and not ourselves. If Christ is in us then we have Christ life, yes? A new creature... I do not necessarily see "self" as a dirty word...we have a NEW self and, a little bit at a time, will one day believe the "new man" thoroughly.

Hi there

I have stayed out of much of this discussion here.
But we are firm friends so I feel freer to write to you.

I USED to do a lot of "soul searching" and stuff...but "for me" , like a rocking chair , it gives you something to do, but get you nowhere.

All the while we are 'seeing what is wrong' in us, we have wasted the time in seeing everything wonderful in the Lord.

Pilate said of Jesus , when he led Him out ..."Behold the Man."

Our calling is to reflect God in the world...how can we do that if we get caught up in all that we are not...When we study HIM, our faces will reflect Him. When we keep looking at what we aren't , we cannot be a reflection of Him.

When we are conscious of sin, we are not conscious of Him.

It is not about "us" , it is all about Him.

King David sinned, but was a man of victory. He saw and knew the glory of God.
-" I have set the Lord always before my face, He is at my right hand, I shall not be moved."

When we don't hold the vision, we waver and get tossed by the Enemy.

Well thats my preach for the day!!

You are very welcome to make your rebuttal . LOL xxx

 

[Nancy]

There is little or no tolerance for taking a stand against wrongdoings, in any assembly these days, I would encourage you to search out a place to fellowship, other than where this took place?
Remember our Master is Going to Rule with a Rod Of Iron!!!
So Kiss the Son, least His Anger is Kindled a Little. This Pastor might take Heed to defending his flock!

I have not been getting allot of Alerts! Just now seeing this, and allot of others I had missed.
I have been gone from that assembly for almost a year now @Truth , and AM in a wonderful body, it is like night and day. I get good fellowship and belong to a small group...I also know several people there...some from our old Church in the 90's that broke up. I feel as though I am home there, and my youngest sibling is and has been coming with me every single week for months now, I would never have believed it just 3 years ago ❤

 

[stunnedbygrace]

Hating ourselves...maybe I should have re phrased this to mean being so self conscience rather than Christ conscience can bring us down on ourselves, been working on this for awhile now.

And this would be, to me, having to do with pride...so focused on what I am and trying very hard to change it, rather than leaving it and trusting Him and what He is and can do. Its pride that thinks, I can do it by sheer willpower.m, I CAN be good.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

...we have a NEW self and, a little bit at a time, will one day believe the "new man" thoroughly.

But see, this is how I used to think and it didn't help me. I don't think there is any slowly getting better. I think there is the old man alive and kicking or the old man dead. Some say the old man will never be completely dead in this life, but I think they might be wrong about the possibility of it.

I now look at Roman's as Paul sort of relating a going to your death and stages of understanding more. I seem to be at the point where he says, but do you think you can condemn others when you do the same things? He is comparing what others do outwardly that we wouldn't dream of doing outwardly, but we do them inwardly. And that is NOT my righteousness exceeding theirs. If anything, it's the point where many men pretend, caring what other men see and then becoming deceived themselves, rather than hungering for a righteousness in their inner man that they see they lack.

 

[Nancy]

Actually, SG, there is no command to forgive those who are not asking for it. We are commanded to forgive those who ask us to forgive them, yes, but God does not forgive those who do not ask for it, and neither are Christians commanded to. Now, that is NOT to say we hold on to any sort of grudge against anyone, ever. We are commanded to pray for those who curse us, persecute us, use us, insult us, and we are commanded to bless them, as Jesus taught. But when it comes to the act of forgiveness, it is actually an exchange between two people - a reconciling between two people - and that means that both parties have to be involved. If the other person does not want and is not asking for forgiveness, it essentially makes forgiveness impossible, because it is not a one-way street. Forgiveness is an act that requires a conscious and welcome exchange between two people who desire to reconcile with each other.

Hope that helped.

I don't think anybody could have said this better. :)

 

[Nancy]

LoL. Well it should have helped : ) I'm guessing you would tell me why it didn't, only you are driving right now.

That's good, because I don't think I could ever "forgive" the sin of texting and driving.

Get it? "Forgive" the...

texting....

and driving...


Did I ever tell you I sometimes eat too much pizza?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Looks like I finally hit someone's funny bone, LoL.

Every once in awhile I pull off a good one, yes? :)

 

[Nancy]

Hi there

I have stayed out of much of this discussion here.
But we are firm friends so I feel freer to write to you.

I USED to do a lot of "soul searching" and stuff...but "for me" , like a rocking chair , it gives you something to do, but get you nowhere.

All the while we are 'seeing what is wrong' in us, we have wasted the time in seeing everything wonderful in the Lord.

Pilate said of Jesus , when he led Him out ..."Behold the Man."

Our calling is to reflect God in the world...how can we do that if we get caught up in all that we are not...When we study HIM, our faces will reflect Him. When we keep looking at what we aren't , we cannot be a reflection of Him.

When we are conscious of sin, we are not conscious of Him.

It is not about "us" , it is all about Him.

King David sinned, but was a man of victory. He saw and knew the glory of God.
-" I have set the Lord always before my face, He is at my right hand, I shall not be moved."

When we don't hold the vision, we waver and get tossed by the Enemy.

Well thats my preach for the day!!

You are very welcome to make your rebuttal . LOL xxx

No rebuttal here my friend, I happen to agree with it ❤

 

[Nancy]

And this would be, to me, having to do with pride...so focused on what I am and trying very hard to change it, rather than leaving it and trusting Him and what He is and can do. Its pride that thinks, I can do it by sheer willpower.m, I CAN be good.

By the trying hard to change it, would be my prayers for Him to change it because, I just cannot. There is no willpower within myself to change what I never could and knowing He is working on my behalf is peace to me and it is faith even though I see little changes, although I DO see them in hindsight.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

By the trying hard to change it, would be my prayers for Him to change it because, I just cannot. There is no willpower within myself to change what I never could and knowing He is working on my behalf is peace to me and it is faith even though I see little changes, although I DO see them in hindsight.

Yeah, I understand you. You see that your mind has changed on something. A thing you used to think was really important is like nothing to you and a thing that you never even considered has become very important. The renewing of your mind.

 

[Giuliano]

The thing that I wonder about is that if Christians too readily forgive that it a) emboldens a wrongdoer b) sees to it that the behavior is repeated.

There are some times when it is right to fight - I just have a hard time figuring out when. You know if your child does something wrong and you just forgive them without disciplining them they'll likely repeat the bad behavior. Sometimes I think it works that way with other adults.

If someone drives drunk you don't just give them a pass - they pay a heavy price. I just wonder if Christians may be actually harmful for not holding wrongdoers accountable.

And sometimes I think if the offense is so great then at times there is no choice but to terminate a relationship permanently.

The reason people repeat their offenses is that they weren't truly sorry for doing them. They were sorry they got caught.

The person who truly repents will want to avoid temptation; but often you can spot by their attitude that they want that temptation. If I trusted someone and he stole money from me because he knew where my money was, should I still keep the money where it had been? Should I be tempting him like that? If he's truly repentant, he won't mind if I stop putting my money where he could steal it. Suppose he says, "You don't trust me. You hid your money. So you didn't really forgive me, did you?" That's a big clue he didn't really repent. He is confusing trust with forgiveness; and he wants my trust immediately without earning it, without showing me by his actions he won't do it again.

Christians sometimes do not consider how being too trusting can tempt people to repeat their sins. I have some alcohol in my house. I seldom drink. Indeed lately I did use some as mouthwash since it works very well for that, better than some commercial mouthwashes. Years ago though, when I had a alcoholic move in who said he wanted to stop drinking, I got rid of all the booze. Why would I want it around if it was going to tempt him? I didn't need it.

Another time a friend of mine had gotten on drugs; and one night he showed up asking for money so he could get something to eat. I didn't give him money. I didn't trust him to use it for food. I took him out to a restaurant. If it had been daytime, maybe I would gone with him to a grocery store.

I cared about them both, and I surely forgave them their offenses; but I also didn't want to help them repeat their mistakes because I did care about them. Neither case turned out well, but my conscience was clear since I knew I hadn't help them degrade themselves more.

Parents who don't discipline their children are probably damaging their children. When their children get out on their own, they aren't ready to face the world.

 

[Nancy]

But see, this is how I used to think and it didn't help me. I don't think there is any slowly getting better. I think there is the old man alive and kicking or the old man dead. Some say the old man will never be completely dead in this life, but I think they might be wrong about the possibility of it.

I now look at Roman's as Paul sort of relating a going to your death and stages of understanding more. I seem to be at the point where he says, but do you think you can condemn others when you do the same things? He is comparing what others do outwardly that we wouldn't dream of doing outwardly, but we do them inwardly. And that is NOT my righteousness exceeding theirs. If anything, it's the point where many men pretend, caring what other men see and then becoming deceived themselves, rather than hungering for a righteousness in their inner man that they see they lack.

"I don't think there is any slowly getting better. I think there is the old man alive and kicking or the old man dead. Some say the old man will never be completely dead in this life, but I think they might be wrong about the possibility of it."
Well, if that is true and it is a one time 'dead to all things sin', just like that, then, I shall be counted as un-saved. Don't we grow in faith, knowledge and understanding? Like you said about the inward and the outward sins...to me those are sins of commission and sins of omission. We are dead to sin but, it does not mean we suddenly become a totally sinless human being...it's what will we DO with the sin...repent, ask for His forgiveness and strength to stop. But then, as you say, it is possible but, apparently, not for me.
"If anything, it's the point where many men pretend, caring what other men see and then becoming deceived themselves, rather than hungering for a righteousness in their inner man that they see they lack."
I agree that many, many Christians put on their masks (I did that for years) and only go through the motions but, for the life of me, I cannot understand why even bother? I've learned that if one is not sold out for the Gospel, they really do not want Truth. But, I suppose one could be that deceived. Righteousness is as righteousness is. Truth or bust!

 

[jshiii]

The pastor in our bible study remarked that we're called to forgive any offense, yet the following two verses seem to contradict one another and I wondered how others converged the two verses. The one verse does call us to forgive all offenses, yet the verse in Luke calls us to rebuke and seems to make forgiveness conditional upon whether someone repents or not.

Matthew 6:15

“But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”

Luke 17:3

“Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.”

For those who are unwilling to repent....just shake the dust off your shoes. Still, forgive everyone 70 x 70 x 70 x 70 x 70 x 70..........


The Lord Jesus Christ ONLY, is Worthy of all our Praise and Worship!

 

[Nancy]

Okay, before I get to work here, if I was to forgive only those who asked for forgiveness, there would be no forgiveness at all, because no one EVER asks me to forgive them. And now, I'm pretty convinced that some counsel I was given the other day is no counsel at all...

Hm, you have a good point here. How many people EVER asked us for forgiveness? Come to think of it, nobody has. At least, the ones who hurt us deeply. You are right, there would be no forgiveness were we only to forgive those who asked. Now the cogs are movin.

 

[Nancy]

Yeah, I understand you. You see that your mind has changed on something. A thing you used to think was really important is like nothing to you and a thing that you never even considered has become very important. The renewing of your mind.

You got that right. And, it does not stop there either. Just today I realized I had sinned against somebody and have not even given it a thought until this afternoon. Must do something about this...soon.

 

[Nancy]

Looks like I finally hit someone's funny bone, LoL.

Every once in awhile I pull off a good one, yes? :)

Yes, you do HIH, lol.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

"I don't think there is any slowly getting better. I think there is the old man alive and kicking or the old man dead. Some say the old man will never be completely dead in this life, but I think they might be wrong about the possibility of it."
Well, if that is true and it is a one time 'dead to all things sin', just like that, then, I shall be counted as un-saved. Don't we grow in faith, knowledge and understanding? Like you said about the inward and the outward sins...to me those are sins of commission and sins of omission. We are dead to sin but, it does not mean we suddenly become a totally sinless human being...it's what will we DO with the sin...repent, ask for His forgiveness and strength to stop. But then, as you say, it is possible but, apparently, not for me.
"If anything, it's the point where many men pretend, caring what other men see and then becoming deceived themselves, rather than hungering for a righteousness in their inner man that they see they lack."
I agree that many, many Christians put on their masks (I did that for years) and only go through the motions but, for the life of me, I cannot understand why even bother? I've learned that if one is not sold out for the Gospel, they really do not want Truth. But, I suppose one could be that deceived. Righteousness is as righteousness is. Truth or bust!

I don't mean to say that if you are not dead that you will be thrown into hell. Of the 2 men who prayed, it is the one who was honest who walked away justified. He asked for mercy because he saw and judged correctly. God desires truth in the inward parts. The 2 men were both sinners. Neither walked away justified because he didn't sin. One of them walked away justified because he was truthful. Let that sink in. Justified because he told the truth...not because he had no sin.