Apparitions of the Virgin Mary

[historyb]

We must never ask the deceased to pray or intercede for us.

Traditional Christians don't either. Christians never die. I do find it strange that some Protestants worship a god of the dead

 

[historyb]

Mary is dead.

You worship a very strange god, a god of the dead.

 

[marks]

@marks
Come on guys, there is no such thing as original sin. So silly, you are hurting my head!

So this scripture....you asked for it...Toyota!
Romans 5:10 “For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.”

This statement is at the heart of understand the saving grace of Christ’s sacrificial crucifixion and Salvation itself. It explains the reconciliation of God and Man. So many scriptures ties to this! So many!

Salvation involves the nature and rules of the divine. Atonement?....You break my fence and my son has to die for me to forgive you….It is not a concept that exists in our world, culture, or society. It involves a complicated set of conditions and rules that is actually alien to us. Yeshua could not just come and introduce a new covenant like Yahweh had done in the OT. The world had accumulated a large tally of sins…a debt…as we understood in our terms. Genesis 9:5 And surely your blood of your lives will I require; at the hand of every beast will I require it, and at the hand of man; at the hand of every man's brother will I require the life of man.”

The justice of Yahweh, dictates that payment be made in lieu of atonement or forgiveness. So by Yahweh’s rules, forgiveness comes at a price. People like to say that salvation is the free gift of God. Ask Christ if it was free. He may offer salvation to us freely, but it came with a heavy price. So when you look at the elements and terms used in salvation you will see judicial terms and terms that imply a payment made by Christ, for us and in our place. This was a God that loved us so much He was willing to go through the passion and death sequence for us. This was a God that took off His clothes and got down on His knees and washed the Apostle’s feet. Which sums up much of the Spirit of Christianity.

To understand salvation, you have to understand the love Yeshua had/has for us, while yet we were sinners. This is the key to understanding salvation. The love Yeshua has for sinners….we were sinners….we are sinners…and we are always going to be sinners, and yet He loves us. The plan and process and progression of salvation was never made for the perfect. You also need to consider that Yeshua’s mission on earth was a plan…a plan of the Trinity ….a plan that called for the Son of God to be scourged beyond all understanding and crucified to a cross. What do you bet They would come up with a plan that would have an extremely high success rate? You have to keep this in mind when considering all aspects of salvation…from belief….to heaven.

The truth about salvation?….it is not a denominational thing….No person or Church can control this. It is a Gospel thing. What I am going to address here is in regard to sin after Christ’s crucifixion and His resurrection and how that ties into the processes of Salvation.

The doctrine of salvation is both simple and complex. On one hand, most of us can quote at least part of John 3:16 or of Paul’s response to the Philippian jailor’s question about how to be saved (Acts 16:31). On the other hand, who can explain how a Holy God/Man could become Sin and die, and with Him take Sin out of the world, for those that believe in Him? (John 1:29 & 1John 3:5)

Salvation is extremely important to understand correctly, for the sake of one’s own salvation and, one would not want to preach a false belief. There is an Anathema (curse) on anyone (including angels or preachers) who teaches a different message of Salvation from what is taught in the New Testament. (This curse is referenced in Gal 1:6 thru 10.) The doctrine of Christianity, the teachings of Christ can be found in the Bible. The doctrine of Man, false teachings can not!

The Gospels teach that true Salvation is that which is provided by God Himself through the sacrificial death of His Son Jesus Christ. There is no other way that Man can be saved from eternal condemnation and enter into eternal life. (John 14:6 ) There is no other name that can be called upon for salvation. (Acts 4:12) Man alone can not save Himself, not through works, not through deeds, or observance of Laws. Man can only be saved through the great love and grace of Jesus. (Ephesians 2:4-10, Titus 2:11 & Titus 3:4 &5, 2Timothy 1:9, John 3:16)

Leave it to your cousin to steal your thunder. John 1:29 “The next day he saw Jesus coming to him, and said, “Behold the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world! This is not exaggeration.” 1st John 2:2 “and He himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. Neither of these two scriptures are exaggerations or just a figure of speech.

When Christ died on the cross, before anyone was saved, the veil in the temple tore in two, top to bottom. At that point there was nothing between us and God the Father. Before that sin had been the distance and the bearer between us and God the Father. Christ’s sacrificial death had paid the price for all of the sins on earth. His death had put an end to the OT system of sin and tally. He not only wiped the slat clean, he broke the slat…no more OT sin. This is what the scripture you guys were talking about allude to. Romans 5:10 “For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.”

At his resurrection He took all authority over sin and from that point, for all that believe in Him, anyone’s sin is between them and Christ, and God the Father never sees your sin. The Grace of Christ presents us before God the Father blameless and perfect. Perfected by Christ.

Now this is the part that some people do not get about baptism. When you repent and believe in Christ, the sins that you accumulated on your soul before you were saved are done away with by baptism…washed away lol…not exactly. The emersion in the water is the event of Christ’s death, you die with Christ and when you come up, you are resurrected with Christ a new person. That person that went down in the water and his or her sins, as far as Christ is concerned, never existed. From then on your sins are between you and Christ. 1st John 1:9 “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” This is the element of Salvation called FORGIVENESS.

But then Paul goes on to explains the other elements of Salvation through The Lamb Of God

PROPITIATION
There are many facets to the meaning of Christ’s death, but the central one….without which the others have no eternal meaning is, the act of substitution. This simply means that Christ died in the place of sinners. The use of the Greek preposition “anti”, clearly teaches this because it means “in the place of.” It is used, for instance, with this meaning in a passage that has nothing to do with the death of Christ. (Luke 11:11) But more significantly, it is used in a passage which gives our Lord’s own interpretation of the meaning of His death. (Matt. 20:28 Mark 10:45) His death, He said, “….was to be a payment in the place of many.”

However, another preposition, “huper”, is also used in the New Testament, and it has two meanings; sometimes it means “for the benefit of”’ and sometimes “in the place of.” Of course the death of Christ was both in our place and for our benefit, and there is no reason why “huper” when it is used in relation to His death does not include both ideas. (2 Corinthians 5:21 1 Peter 3:18)

With the exceptions of original sin and baptismal regeneration, all the rest, well said, I think!

Much love!

 

[marks]

To Justify, is to declare righteous.

As I understand justification in Scripture, it also refers to us being made righteous.

We are declared righteous, and we are made righteous.
We are forgiven of our sin, and are dead to sin.
We are adopted by God, and born of God.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Now there is an eighth element. I don’t want you to think I forgot it. Glorification…but that is a topic that I will address later because this is long enough.

I must admit . . . I'm starting to glaze . . .

 

[Grailhunter]

With the exceptions of original sin and baptismal regeneration, all the rest, well said, I think!

Much love!

Baptism for the remission of sins....was occurring even before Christ's ministry.
The doctrine of original sin came from the mind of a mad man! A horrible sinner and whore monger, that thought since he could not control himself...no one could. And he blamed the desire for sex to be embedded in him by procreation. So since women were the object of his uncontrollable desires he thought women were an instrument of the the devil and sex the bait. And he is not the only one, that is why some agreed with him.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

How divisive!

Well, if I'm going to be divisive, it should be about the thing that really counts--the superiority of women, lol!

 

[Prayer Warrior]

The doctrine of original sin came from the mind of a mad man!

I wouldn't call Paul a madman, for heaven's sake, when he said that sin entered the world through one man, Adam, and death by sin.... (Romans 5:12). I've already quoted this several times, but not in a post to you, I don't think.

How did people get a sin nature (that Paul talks about so much) if not through Adam's "original sin"?

 

[marks]

Baptism for the remission of sins....was occurring even before Christ's ministry.
The doctrine of original sin came from the mind of a mad man! A horrible sinner and whore monger, that thought since he could not control himself...no one could. And he blamed the desire for sex to be embedded in him by procreation. So since women were the object of his uncontrollable desires he thought women were an instrument of the the devil and sex the bait. And he is not the only one, that is why some agreed with him.

See, this has nothing to do with my understanding of original sin. Got to get that thread going!

Much love!

 

[historyb]

If I ask you to pray for me am I praying to you?

I understand your point and completely agree. What is interesting is that the epistemology of the word Pray, just asking someone a question, a request, or anything is praying to them as in "pray tell me" basically evangelicals and some protestants would literally have to stop anyone for anything because every time they do they are praying to people.

 

[Philip James]

I understand how Mary is the mother of Jesus in His incarnation, but how is she the "mother of God" considering that God lives eternally?

Much love!

Jesus is God! Mary is His mother, what's hard to follow?

Peace!

 

[Grailhunter]

Well, if I'm going to be divisive, it should be about the thing that really counts--the superiority of women, lol!

What is stronger than kings and wine?

 

[Philip James]

What is stronger than kings and wine?

Time?

 

[Prayer Warrior]

What is stronger than kings and wine?

I don't know...queens and coffee??

 

[Grailhunter]

I wouldn't call Paul a madman, for heaven's sake, when he said that sin entered the world through one man, Adam, and death by sin.... (Romans 5:12). I've already quoted this several times, but not in a post to you, I don't think.

How did people get a sin nature (that Paul talks about so much) if not through Adam's "original sin"?

I am not disputing that! For sure death did "enter" because of Adam. And death was passed on to his descendants...but babies were not born with sin. The curses if you look at them closely are a factor of leaving the spiritual environment of "Eden" They were both going to age and die...Adam would toil and Eve would go through the pains of childbirth and be ruled by her husband etc.

 

[Prayer Warrior]

I am not disputing that! For sure death did "enter" because of Adam. And death was passed on to his descendants...but babies were not born with sin. The curses if you look at them closely are a factor of leaving the spiritual environment of "Eden" They were both going to age and die...Adam would toil and Eve would go through the pains of childbirth and be ruled by her husband etc.

Okay, but if sin entered the world through Adam and death by sin, when does a person become a sinner? I mean, sadly, babies do die, so they are affected by sin. Is there a certain age that a person goes from not being a sinner to being a sinner? Where is this in the scriptures?

 

[Grailhunter]

Okay, but if sin entered the world through Adam and death by sin, when does a person become a sinner? I mean, sadly, babies do die, so they are affected by sin.

lol What do think happens when a baby dies?
Sin by definition is a transgression against God. Except for pooping their diapers that is about it for them.
In the Mosaic Law you will not find a sin offering for contraception. You will find a sin offering for birth because of the vaginal fluids involved with delivery...more sin offerings for female babies...?? More potential vaginal fluids?

 

[marks]

Jesus is God! Mary is His mother, what's hard to follow?

Peace!

The semantics.

 

[marks]

lol What do think happens when a baby dies?
Sin by definition is a transgression against God.

Once they come to know right and wrong, they invariably choose wrong, because they choose according to their nature.

Much love!

 

[Grailhunter]

Once they come to know right and wrong, they invariably choose wrong, because they choose according to their nature.

Much love!

lol I think you have that a little out of sequence....