APOSTASIA in the LXX

[covenantee]

All I ask to refute my position is for you to show me ONE example (not including our passage 2 Thes 2.3) where APOSTASIA is used without modifiers. Just one.
You forgot to give the full definitions when you gave (partial) definitions of APOSTASIA. It also means Departure. Go back to the Lexica and cut and paste the whole definition.
APOSTASIA does mostly mean religious departure, but only if it has modifiers, like Acts 21.21, its only other use in the NT.

Why don't you ask why the entire historical true Christian Church didn't need modifiers, and why every English Bible translator didn't need modifiers?

 

[TribulationSigns]

No, it's a perfectly valid question. If "The Spiritual Rebellion" is a sign, then how do you know when it's "The Spiritual Rebellion"?

No, we have answered yet you do not accept it.

Again, you will not be able to "see" the spiritual rebellion if you do not have spiritual discernment because you deny this and insisted that apostasia must be a "physical departure" via the rapture. It is same as how do we know when we see the abomination of desolation. One, like you, may believe it must be a physical statue sitting upon temple Mount while others see it as a Mystery of Iniquity. The abomination of desolation "IS" the mystery of iniquity in a nutshell! Iniquity, lawlessness, apostasy, and disobedience toward God wrapped up nicely appearing to be people to be righteousness.

This is literally an [apostasia] or apostasy. The departure in the church from the law (truth) of God's word by the unfaithful (lawless) man who basically wants to rule as if he were God. This falling away speaks of a time when the Godly man will cease in the church, being replaced by the sinful man. Or the man of sin replaces the man of righteousness. When man, led by the spirit of disobedience (the spirit of antichrist), begins to forsake the Lord by transgressing His laws, "THIS" is called falling away from God. It is when man refuses to be subject to the authority of God's actual law, becoming the man of lawlessness who is his own law in God's house. This falling away or apostasy is spoken of as the Great Tribulation period in other places, an abomination that will leave the church desolate. Because it is a time of the loosing of the spirit Satan (that had been restrained before) and a time of trouble for the saints. It is the time when the beast rises out of the pit with all lying signs and wonders to deceive professing Christians. For example, in the imagery of Revelation when the Dragon loosed and commands the nations against the camp of the saints. In Revelation, we see the spirit of Satan as it rules coming from the mouths of his false prophets.

Revelation 16:13-14

• "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
• For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."

This is the time of apostasy or falling away that 2nd Thessalonians 2 prophesies must take place before Christ's second advent...AND the rapture at the Last Trump. PERIOD!

If any man have ears to hear, let him hear! (spiritual discernment!) This only can be done with the wisdom of Christ.

Much wisdom, Mark!

 

[marks]

No, we have answered yet you do not accept it.

Again, you will not be able to "see" the spiritual rebellion if you do not have spiritual discernment because you deny this and insisted that apostasia must be a "physical departure" via the rapture. It is same as how do we know when we see the abomination of desolation. One, like you, may believe it must be a physical statue sitting upon temple Mount while others see it as a Mystery of Iniquity. The abomination of desolation "IS" the mystery of iniquity in a nutshell! Iniquity, lawlessness, apostasy, and disobedience toward God wrapped up nicely appearing to be people to be righteousness.

This is literally an [apostasia] or apostasy. The departure in the church from the law (truth) of God's word by the unfaithful (lawless) man who basically wants to rule as if he were God. This falling away speaks of a time when the Godly man will cease in the church, being replaced by the sinful man. Or the man of sin replaces the man of righteousness. When man, led by the spirit of disobedience (the spirit of antichrist), begins to forsake the Lord by transgressing His laws, "THIS" is called falling away from God. It is when man refuses to be subject to the authority of God's actual law, becoming the man of lawlessness who is his own law in God's house. This falling away or apostasy is spoken of as the Great Tribulation period in other places, an abomination that will leave the church desolate. Because it is a time of the loosing of the spirit Satan (that had been restrained before) and a time of trouble for the saints. It is the time when the beast rises out of the pit with all lying signs and wonders to deceive professing Christians. For example, in the imagery of Revelation when the Dragon loosed and commands the nations against the camp of the saints. In Revelation, we see the spirit of Satan as it rules coming from the mouths of his false prophets.

Revelation 16:13-14

• "And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
• For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty."

This is the time of apostasy or falling away that 2nd Thessalonians 2 prophesies must take place before Christ's second advent...AND the rapture at the Last Trump. PERIOD!

If any man have ears to hear, let him hear! (spiritual discernment!) This only can be done with the wisdom of Christ.

Much wisdom, Mark!

I"m trying to find something in this that would answer my question but I'm not. I am finding how you are using terms in ways other than what they mean. Like great tribulation referring to the spiritual state of the church, that's not what the words mean.

Regardless.

When I write "much love" at the end of all my posts the reason is two-fold. One is that I want to express to you that I have your wellbeing at heart, and the other is to give myself a moment to reflect on whether or not my words are consistent with my intent.

I've seen you develop your "much wisdom" in first saying I needed to have some wisdom, and how this morphed into your "much wisdom, Mark". And I get what you are saying, it's your backhanded, "you're being foolish". And now you are making it your habit, to gain advantage, a manipulation, or put down, or however you intend it. And because I offer my love. Oh well!

And now because I've been so bold as to point this out, will the naysayers decry over how offended I must be to speak so? That's what usually happens, but maybe this time will be different.

Much love!

 

[ewq1938]

All I ask to refute my position is for you to show me ONE example (not including our passage 2 Thes 2.3) where APOSTASIA is used without modifiers. Just one.

It's used two times in scripture but the definition has been known for centuries. Pretrib is trying to alter the meaning so it can mean something it does not mean. If you want to commit apostasia so badly you will be able to. I won't.

You forgot to give the full definitions when you gave (partial) definitions of APOSTASIA.

No, I provided the full definitions from the various sources I gave. Prove any of them were incomplete. You won't.

It also means Departure. Go back to the Lexica and cut and paste the whole definition.
APOSTASIA does mostly mean religious departure, but only if it has modifiers, like Acts 21.21, its only other use in the NT.

No, it means that with or without modifiers. The Apostasy is exactly that, an Apostasy where people become Apostates. They fall away from (depart from) Christ to the antichrist because they do not know what apostasia means.

 

[KUWN]

It's used two times in scripture but the definition has been known for centuries. Pretrib is trying to alter the meaning so it can mean something it does not mean. If you want to commit apostasia so badly you will be able to. I won't.




No, I provided the full definitions from the various sources I gave. Prove any of them were incomplete. You won't.



No, it means that with or without modifiers. The Apostasy is exactly that, an Apostasy where people become Apostates. They fall away from (depart from) Christ to the antichrist because they do not know what apostasia means.

would you do me a favor and not respond to any of my posts from now own. As a Christian, you have offended me. And Paul says if eating mean offends my brother, I will not eat meat. Please honor my request.

 

[covenantee]

would you do me a favor and not respond to any of my posts from now own. As a Christian, you have offended me. And Paul says if eating mean offends my brother, I will not eat meat. Please honor my request.

Truth offends many. Should truth therefore be suppressed?

 

[KUWN]

Truth offends many. Should truth therefore be suppressed?

no, just do your Christian duty and no longer respond to my posts. Should Paul have eaten the meat and offend his brother again?

 

[covenantee]

no, just do your Christian duty and no longer respond to my posts. Should Paul have eaten the meat and offend his brother again?

Should Paul have suppressed the truth when it offended his brother?

 

[Runningman]

Here are some numbers and meanings that should help bible students understand the meaning of the word APOSTASIA in 2 Thes 2.

APOSTASIA and its cognates appear over 220 times in the LXX. They have a variety of meanings. 66 times in the LXX the meaning is a physical, spatial departure or separation from someone or something. 53 times it is used of a religious departure, and only 8 times it refers to a political departure.

I point out these numbers because often times you hear that APOSTASIA means a religious departure from the faith most of the time. That does not bear true for the Greek Old Testament.

While that may be true, moving from one geographical location to another isn't said to be a provocation for the day of the Lord in Scripture. The DOTL is the day of God's wrath and it could be potentially triggered by a mass exodus from righteous living to an abandonment of the faith and lawlessness; these are the things that have, historically in the Bible narrative, triggered divine wrath. I am inclined to go with apostasia being a reference to the latter in the context of 2 Thess. 2.