Apokatastasis in the early church

[Jack]

Imagine that, LGBT's heading for Hell teaching us Greek.

 

[Hillsage]

When many hear about Apokatastasis (the restoration of all things), Universalism, Christian Universalism,
Universal Restoration, Universal Reconciliation, Universal Redemption, UR...

Steven!!! You left out my favorite BOAT in the ocean of UNIVERSALISM....that being ULTIMATE RECONCILIATION. Shame on you St. Steven. Oh well, at least we're in the right OCEAN now. Those floating around in the OCEAN of DENOMINATIONAL-ISM simply have not the eyes to see what we see. But we both have seen what they see, because we both WERE where they ARE. I thank God , (the great optometrist,) Who took off our blurry glasses prescribed by 1700 years of apostasy. In Our Opinion.

There is an assumption that this is a new idea. Something modern liberal theologians cooked up. Not so.

Apokatastasis was a major part of Christian theology in the early church.

The main Patristic supporters of the apokatastasis theory, such as Bardaisan, Clement, Origin,
Didymus, St. Anthony, St. Pamphilus Martyr, Methodius, St. Macrina, St. Gregory of Nyssa (and probably the
two other Cappadocians), St. Evagrius Ponticus, Diodore of Tarsus, Theodore of Mopsuestia, St. John of Jerusalem,
Rufinus, St. Jerome and St. Augustine (at least initially) … Cassian, St. Issac of Nineveh, St. John of Dalyatha,
Ps. Dionysius the Areopagite, probably St. Maximus the Confessor, up to John the Scot Eriugena,
and many others, grounded their Christian doctrine of apokatastasis first of all in the Bible.
— Ramelli, Christian Doctrine, 11.

Amen Amen and again I say AMEN.

--- Agree or disagree? ---

Quotes from the early church fathers in posts #2 and #5-7.

]

AGREE AGREE AGREE....but only after 10 years of studying with a heart open to the leading of the holy spirit within. And allowing HIM to reveal a truth contrary to the one we believed so fervently in before. I am so happy to have met you in your "traditions and commandments of men" days, bro.

 

[St. SteVen]

Steven!!! You left out my favorite BOAT in the ocean of UNIVERSALISM....that being ULTIMATE RECONCILIATION. Shame on you St. Steven.

LOL
Correction made. Thanks, buddy.

Could I ask a HUGE favor.
I had a topic on the previous forum that I would like to bring over here.
The title contained the term "Apostles and Prophets".
If you could send me the actual title and OP (post #1)
I'll post it here. Thanks.

'

 

[St. SteVen]

@Hillsage

Could I ask a HUGE favor.
I had a topic on the previous forum that I would like to bring over here.
The title contained the term "Apostles and Prophets".
If you could send me the actual title and OP (post #1)
I'll post it here. Thanks.

]

 

[Hillsage]

LOL
Correction made. Thanks, buddy.

Could I ask a HUGE favor.
I had a topic on the previous forum that I would like to bring over here.
The title contained the term "Apostles and Prophets".
If you could send me the actual title and OP (post #1)
I'll post it here. Thanks.

'

 

[Hillsage]

Would help if I could. But don’t know how? And we are at a track meet watching grandson. Sorry.

 

[ProDeo]

There may be some question about who these church fathers were, and their credibility.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The Apostolic Fathers were Christian theologians who lived in the 1st and 2nd centuries AD, who are believed to have personally known some of the Twelve Apostles, or to have been significantly influenced by them.[5] Their writings, though popular in Early Christianity, were ultimately not included in the canon of the New Testament once it reached its final form. Many of the writings derive from the same time period and geographical location as other works of early Christian literature that did come to be part of the New Testament, and some of the writings found among the Apostolic Fathers' seem to have been just as highly regarded as some of the writings that became the New Testament.

Clement of Alexandria​

Main article: Clement of Alexandria

Clement of Alexandria (c. 150–215) was the first member of the church of Alexandria whose writings have survived, and was one of its most distinguished teachers. He saw wisdom in Greek philosophy and sought to harmonize it with Christian doctrine. Clement opposed Gnosticism, and yet used some of its terminology; for instance, he valued gnosis that with communion for all people could be held by common Christians. He developed a Christian Platonism[6] and has been described by scholars as "the founder of what was to become the great tradition of Christian philosophical theology."[19] Due to his teaching on salvation and divine judgement in passages such as Paedagogus 1.8 and Stromata 7.2, Clement is often regarded as one of the first Christian universalists.[20] Like Origen, he arose from the Catechetical School of Alexandria and was well-versed in pagan and biblical literature.[6]

Origen of Alexandria​

Main article: Origen

Origen, or Origen Adamantius (c. 185 – c. 254) was a scholar and theologian. According to tradition, he was an Egyptian[21] who taught in Alexandria, reviving the Catechetical School where Clement had taught. The patriarch of Alexandria at first supported Origen but later expelled him for being ordained without the patriarch's permission. He relocated to Caesarea Maritima and died there[22] after being tortured during a persecution. He later became a controversial figure and some of his writings were condemned as heretical. Using his knowledge of Hebrew, he produced a corrected Septuagint.[6] He wrote commentaries on all the books of the Bible.[6] In Peri Archon (First Principles), he articulated a systematic philosophical exposition of Christian doctrine.[6] He at times employed an allegorical hermeneutic in his interpretation of the Old Testament, and was partly influenced by Stoic, Neo-Pythagorean, and Platonist thought.[6] Like Plotinus, he has been thought to believe that the soul passes through successive stages before incarnation as a human and after death, eventually reaching God.[6] However, more recent scholarship has concluded that Origen actually denied the preexistence of disembodied souls, and simply taught the preexistence of individuals' logoi in the mind of God.[23] Yet Origen did suggest, based on 1 Corinthians 15:22-28, that all creatures, possibly including even the fallen angels, will eventually be restored and reunited to God when evil is finally eradicated. For Origen, God was the First Principle, and Christ, the Logos[6] through whom salvation is accomplished. Origen's various writings were interpreted by some to imply a hierarchical structure in the Trinity, the temporality of matter, "the fabulous preexistence of souls", and "the monstrous restoration which follows from it." These alleged "Origenist errors" were declared anathema by a council in 553, three centuries after Origen had died in the peace of the church.[24][25]

You might do some research on Clement of Rome likely the one in Filip 4:3 (thus living in the first century) and according the wiki allegedly hinted to universalism.

 

[St. SteVen]

You might do some research on Clement of Rome likely the one in Filip 4:3 (thus living in the first century) and according the wiki allegedly hinted to universalism.

That's interesting, thanks!

Philippians 4:3 NIV
Yes, and I ask you, my true companion,
help these women since they have contended at my side
in the cause of the gospel, along with Clement
and the rest of my co-workers,
whose names are in the book of life.

[

 

[Behold]

When many hear about Apokatastasis (the restoration of all things), Universalism, Christian Universalism,

@Chadrho @Patrick1966

1.) Lets say you are not a Christian.

You're not born again.. You've never Trusted IN Christ... You never cared.........and you still dont.

Then, someone who teaches UNIVERSALISM............tells you...>>"You're saved... You're a Christian......Everyone Is".

So, Reader..... what has just happened to the unbeliever?

= .) > They remain an unbeliever, ...not born again.......falsely believing they are going to Heaven.

So, this means they are going to HELL,.. John 3:36..... believing they are not,.......... because a Universalist, has just sent them there.


2.) Universalism, is Satanic, as it completely eliminates "FAITH", and "Justification by Faith"..

UNIVERSALISM denies that Jesus said "YOU must be born again".. .by lying this lie... "you already are"... "everyone is saved".

Universalism .. this Lie of the Devil.... is literally teaching that the Born again and the Christ Rejector, are THE SAME.

Universalism says that Jesus is a LIAR.. as Jesus said..."unless you believe in me, you shall die in your sins"..

Universalism teaches that the Christ Rejector and the CHRISTian... are Both are Saved... are .Both are going to Heaven.

That is a Satanic Lie. It is a "DOCTRINE OF DEVILS"..... designed to send people to Hell.


A.) Do not trust people who teach this (Universalism) = Satanic Lie.. Do not believe their Lies.

 

[St. SteVen]

Then, someone who teaches UNIVERSALISM............tells you...>>"You're saved... You're a Christian......Everyone Is".

That's ridiculous.
A UR advocate would never stand in the way of a person finding a renewed relationship with God.
The lies are in your warped POV.

If Christian Universalism is true, what's the point in evangelism?

What's the point of evangelism if everyone will automatically be saved? These two questions show a common misunderstanding about Christian Universalism. (Universal Reconciliation, Universal Restoration, Ultimate Redemption, UR) These quotes are from the website Universalist Musings. "When...

www.christianityboard.com

[

 

[Behold]

That's ridiculous.
A UR advocate would never stand in the way of a person finding a renewed relationship with God.
The lies are in your warped POV.

The biggest lie is the one you are telling yourself.... @St. SteVen

Listen..
You are telling unbelievers that they are already forgiven........before they have trusted in Christ, so that God will forgive them.

John 3:36, says that these unbelievers, are under God's Wrath.... because of unforgiven sin.. Jesus Himself said they will "die in their sin, unless they BELIEVE in Him"..... and you are denying this, by lying to them, and telling them, they are already forgiven.

Other Christian Forums would put you outside the gate for this type of radical heresy- deception you are selling, but you found the one that does not care.

So, That is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit you are involved in, as you are willfully and knowingly blocking them from the Truth, because that is who you are, and what you do.. Mr Universalist. @St. SteVen

 

[St. SteVen]

Universalism .. this Lie of the Devil....

The BIGGEST lie is claiming that God's plan for humankind from the beginning was to incinerate the vast majority.

[

 

[Behold]

The BIGGEST lie is claiming that God's plan for humankind from the beginning was to incinerate the vast majority.

The biggest lie is the one you are telling yourself.... @St. SteVen

Listen..
You are telling unbelievers that they are already forgiven........before they have trusted in Christ, so that God will forgive them.

John 3:36, says that these unbelievers, are under God's Wrath.... because of unforgiven sin.. Jesus Himself said they will "die in their sin, unless they BELIEVE in Him"..... and you are denying this, by lying to them, and telling them, they are already forgiven.

Other Christian Forums would put you outside the gate for teaching this type of radical heresy- deception you are selling , but you found the one that does not care.

So, That is blasphemy of the Holy Spirit you are involved in, as you are willfully and knowingly blocking them from the Truth, because that is who you are, and what you do.. Mr Universalist. @St. SteVen

 

[David in NJ]

When many hear about Apokatastasis (the restoration of all things), Universalism, Christian Universalism,
Universal Restoration, Universal Reconciliation, Ultimate Redemption, Ultimate Reconciliation, UR...

There is an assumption that this is a new idea. Something modern liberal theologians cooked up. Not so.

Apokatastasis was a major part of Christian theology in the early church.

The main Patristic supporters of the apokatastasis theory, such as Bardaisan, Clement, Origin,
Didymus, St. Anthony, St. Pamphilus Martyr, Methodius, St. Macrina, St. Gregory of Nyssa (and probably the
two other Cappadocians), St. Evagrius Ponticus, Diodore of Tarsus, Theodore of Mopsuestia, St. John of Jerusalem,
Rufinus, St. Jerome and St. Augustine (at least initially) … Cassian, St. Issac of Nineveh, St. John of Dalyatha,
Ps. Dionysius the Areopagite, probably St. Maximus the Confessor, up to John the Scot Eriugena,
and many others, grounded their Christian doctrine of apokatastasis first of all in the Bible.
— Ramelli, Christian Doctrine, 11.

--- Agree or disagree? ---

Quotes from the early church fathers in the next post.


@Chadrho @Patrick1966

Faulty foundation

Those whom you listed are NOT the "Church fathers".

 

[St. SteVen]

Faulty foundation

Those whom you listed are NOT the "Church fathers".

Do you have reading comprehension issues?

"Quotes from the early church fathers in the next post."

[

 

[David in NJ]

Do you have reading comprehension issues?

"Quotes from the early church fathers in the next post."

[

JESUS wants our reading comprehension is to be fully applied to the Holy Scriptures = without doubting

There is no such thing as "early church fathers" AFTER the Apostles.

There are only men who began to deemphasize Truth in order to establish religious thought = their own views on scripture

SAME as what goes on today

 

[St. SteVen]

There is no such thing as "early church fathers" AFTER the Apostles.

Don't be ridiculous.

List of Church Fathers - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

[

 

[ProDeo]

Philippians 4:3 NIV
Yes, and I ask you, my true companion,
help these women since they have contended at my side

Well, as stated earlier I am not into Universalism. But I find the topic interesting enough to study for the following observations -

[1]. It gives God what He always wanted, per 1 Tim 2:4, John 3:17 etc.

Filipp 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name,
Filipp 2:10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

[2]. The fulfillment of [1].

3. Oh, and I am the type that likes harmony and happy endings and so I must be careful the wish doesn't become the father of the doctrine.

4. On the other hand, you can argue this way but it still is a philosophical approach and I can be easily wrong, so no, maybe undecided that's as afar as I will go. There are tons passages that speak against it.

 

[St. SteVen]

There are tons passages that speak against it.

Yes. All three doctrines of the final judgement are both biblical and contradictory.
The BIG point for me is what each view says about the character of God.

- Damnationism
- Annihilationism
- Universalism (UR)

[

 

[ProDeo]

Yes. All three doctrines of the final judgement are both biblical and contradictory.
The BIG point for me is what each view says about the character of God.

- Damnationism
- Annihilationism
- Universalism (UR)

[

True that.