Yes...but through the process of weeding out sin and those who love sin more than the truth.
Peace and harmony will be restored. The Fall was necessary to weed out the ones who hate peace and harmony. :)
Apokatastasis in the Bible
- Thread starter St. SteVen
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Yes...but through the process of weeding out sin and those who love sin more than the truth.
On a pole? (SDA or JW?) Never mind. Let's stay on topic.
Jesus said he will DRAW all people to himself.
Draw = drag, draw, pull, persuade
Active, NOT passive.
John 12:32 NIV
And I, when I am lifted up[a] from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”
You are in error to think that only the elect are saved. Who will they rule over? According to the Bible the righteous. But here the many who have been indoctrinated into a religious ideology will deny that any are righteous but themselves. Can you say...Phariseeism???
C. S. Lewis testifies that is how he came to the Lord. "... kicking and screaming."
People of every nation, tribe and tongue. That is a general statement...not meant to include every individual.
Balance is the most difficult thing for a temporal mind to consider. People will ALWAYS go from one extreme to the other. At least until more wisdom is added in.
So people will shift from either ONLY the elect being saved...which is unbiblical...or else...God saves the wicked as well as the just (the rapist as well as the one who is raped...the rich and the poor...etc.) ..which is equally false.
Excellent discussion, thanks again.
This is where we are at odds in our views.
I say, "Yes!" to weeding out sin, but "No!" to weeding out sinners.
Weeding reminds me of a comment I heard yesterday, (thanks again to @Chadrho )
That our sinful desires are welded to us. (not weeded - LOL)
It will be painful to separate us from this. But the great physician is caable of such restoration.
Yes, the love of Christ constrains us. But this kind of discipline is towards His people. Those whom He loves He chastens and rebukes. But God goes easy on the destitute, the poor, the suffering...etc. God is far more merciful than those who claim to be "saved".
So much religion.
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Doesn't this assume that every individual in every nation, tribe and tongue has had the opportunity?
From my perspective, that's where the argument falls apart.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
So lets ignore the cross?
Does that mean everyone will respond and say yes lord. I have faith save me?
How did we score on that one? Seems we lost, two to zero.
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Your in error to think anyone who does not recieve the gospel and trust it will be saved.
Your the one indoctrinated. your the pharisee who pumps your chest. Not me
But you gracious in your points. Thanks for that! :)
You have a point where the elect are concerned...even the righteous. But God also hardens the hearts of some..giving them over to do evil...more and more. Not every story has a happy ending. The world is a big place. And God's judgments are manifold.
For those who are meant to be saved...yes. God will do His utmost to save as many as possible.
But you can't throw away all the warnings as being mere bluffs. The fear of the Lord causes us to amend our ways. Without penalties...there is no seriousness to the warnings.
So we see there is mercy AND truth.
St. SteVen said:
On a pole? (SDA or JW?) Never mind. Let's stay on topic.
On a pole? (SDA or JW?) Never mind. Let's stay on topic.
Uh... you said "pole", not cross.
What opportunity. You would have to believe that some people are born without a conscience. We are ALL created in God's image. Don't react against the fundamentalists who consign everybody to hell.
God saves the righteous...the weak, the poor, the meek, the suffering. God is merciful. And the saints will rule over them in the next age...according to the gospel.
Let's not be dogmatic by going to extremes.
The Bible seemingly backs up BOTH exclusiveness AND universalism. But in each case, half the Bible has to be ignored.
And there is a place for both. In the holy city, we see ONLY the elect. This is where Calvinism can work.
But there are also the nations to consider. Here we see the mercy of God making a place for the meek of the earth...from every tribe, religion, tongue...etc. God has mercy on whoever He wills. :)
The Bible seemingly backs up BOTH exclusiveness AND universalism. But in each case, half the Bible has to be ignored.
And there is a place for both. In the holy city, we see ONLY the elect. This is where Calvinism can work.
But there are also the nations to consider. Here we see the mercy of God making a place for the meek of the earth...from every tribe, religion, tongue...etc. God has mercy on whoever He wills. :)
All things are NOT restored if ANY of humankind are left out.
Jesus taught us that it is godly behavior to love our enemies.
What will God do with his "enemies"? Something LESS than he expects from us?
This aligns with the New Age philoshophy/religion that worships the earth. (more important than the inhabitants)
CadyandZoe
Well-Known Member
Vengeance is not ours to mete out. That is God's domain. God indeed loves His enemies. He gives us many opportunities to repent. But His justice demands that the wilful sinners be condemned. Otherwise we should all indulge ourselves in this life...there is no point in learning to eschew evil.
I see that any extremist view is harmful to the soul.
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Even the Apostle Paul struggled with this.
Romans 7:22-24 NIV
For in my inner being I delight in God’s law;
23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war
against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner
of the law of sin at work within me.
24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me
from this body that is subject to death?
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