Yes, they would refer to God the Father as Lord, and to God the Son as Lord. But they don't say that the Father and the Son are two Gods, not once. You imply that you have 150 scriptures that say there is more than one God. Perhaps you could give a few. I cannot think of a single one.
I have given a few, I have given a lot and they refered to them separately......I told you that at times they refered to God the Father as God and God the Son as Lord. That is two separate distinctions and and the word and adds another person. We did not make the distinctions of Father AND Son....they did. And the fact that the one God formula is not expressed by early writers until the Roman Ecumenical Councils in the 4th century....So here ya go.....
The one God formula for the Trinity skews the meaning of over a hundred scriptures and the storyline of the Gospels….
And then here are over a hundred scriptural reasons why the one God formula for the Trinity is false.
Note: Feel free to verify all scriptural references in your own favorite translation.
This is a topic that is easy to prove because it connects to so many scriptures, which will be referenced directly and or indirectly through this discussion as well as the obvious storyline of the Gospels. The topic as a whole is interesting because it involves the thoughts and beliefs of the Early Church Fathers and the Ecumenical Councils that eventually influenced Catholic and Protestant beliefs.
Most Christian denominations proclaim a belief in the Trinity, and its existence is certain, it is the details that vary. Some define the Trinity as three persons in one God, some turn the perspective around and believe that the Trinity is one God with three aspects. Some reduce the Trinity to a duo, the Holy Spirit merely being the projection of Yahweh or Yeshua’s spirit...not a God….a spirit, different in substance than Yahweh or Yeshua. Part of this was due to not giving the Holy Spirit a name. Holy Spirit is not a name.....they are all holy Spirits to an extent.
Some definitions of the Trinity…
Baptist definition of the Trinity
We believe that there is one, and only one, living and true God and infinite, intelligent Spirit, the Maker and Supreme Ruler of Heaven and Earth
Catholics believe in one single God, who made Himself known to the world (revelation) as three separate persons: God the Father, God the Son (Jesus) and God the Holy Spirit. This is known as the doctrine of the Trinity, and is a fundamental belief for all Catholics.
Pentecostal definition of the Trinity
The doctrine states that there is one God, a singular divine spirit with no distinction of persons….who manifests himself in many ways, including as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This stands in sharp contrast to the doctrine of three distinct, eternal persons posited by Trinitarian theology.
The three persons in one god is very popular and common in the mythology of Paganism.
Then there are those that believe Yeshua is the “one” and only God... representing three aspects of God or even Christ being the God that created the Heavens and Earth. Which would pretty much invalidate the entire Old Testament and the Apostle’s Creed, where God the Father is the Creator, or even the concept of God being the Father.
Now this one God formula makes you wonder how God the Father fits in! Oddly enough, the “confusion factor” comes from a “qualifying condition” from the 4th century on, the thinking is if it makes no sense or cannot be understood, that is the qualifying factor that it is of God! This is an interesting topic in itself. Debates over what the Trinity meant, and or what it is, has continued throughout the centuries. The winning point always has been and is, that the Gospels clearly document the presence, actions, communications, and movements, of three persons (Gods). But the most commonly accepted doctrine of the Trinity, is that there are three persons in one God, called God, named God, as if the word God is a name. This is the larger intent and underlying reason for this doctrine of the Trinity, and that is to say “one God” not Gods. Because of this the reasons for and explanation of the errors with the one God formula for the Trinity starts with the removal of Yahweh’s name from the Old Testament. This was the event that set the stage for the one God formula and it started with the removal of God’s name from the Old Testament scriptures. That is to change the name of the Yahweh to God. Rather than “God” representing spiritual position, to change the word God to a proper name. At which point they could manipulate it very easily.
The truth is that God the Father's name at one time appeared around 6,800 times in the Old Testament and He was adamant that He was the only one and no one like Him existed. There are a few words in the OT that refer to Yahweh, like EL and Elohim and at times they referred to locations or holy sites, but they are references not proper names, or they could not say or write them. On the other hand YHWH does refer to the proper name of God the Father and at one time it appeared over 6.800 times in the Old Testament.
The exact pronunciation of Yahweh name is debatable but from around 840 BC on, His name was represented by the Tetragrammaton….YHWH. Then during the Greek translations of the Hebrew Bible (The Septuagint, beginning around 280 BC) they removed the Tetragrammaton and replaced it with the words Lord or God or both. So then during the Ecumenical Councils they could argue that the Trinity was a functional unnamed trio in the Old Testament ….because God was now all their names!
So now the bumper sticker “IN GOD WE TRUST” can mean any god.
The word Trinity is not in the Bible but it was coined by early Christian writers but they did not define the Trinity as three Gods in one person or entity. So why and when was the doctrine of the one God Trinity proposed? The doctrine of the one God Trinity was created by the Ecumenical Councils to settle irreconcilable arguments within the Council on the nature and differences between God the Father and God the Son. These differences were Irreconcilable but Emperor Constantine commanded an agreement on this issue.
In and out of the Council, Christians had differing beliefs regarding Yahweh and Yeshua. The big topic was about some seeing a big difference in the character and nature and actions of Yahweh and Yeshua. Which was one of the concerns of the Gnostics. Now modern Christians believe as the Ecumenical Councils and the Roman Catholics believed that Gnostics were heretics and preached false beliefs, and that was correct, but some Gnostic beliefs were gaining popularity with Christians towards the end of the 1st century and beyond. The Gnostics believed that the Old Testament God was either evil or insane. So they believed that Yeshua was the Creator God and God Almighty, essentially the only true God.
Now beliefs are ideas and do not necessary commitment to a particular religion as a whole. And some Gnostic beliefs or similar beliefs were accepted by some “mainstream” Christians. Part of this may have been because of the Gospel of John. John’s writings came out towards the end of the 1st century when Christians were thirsty for more information. Now John’s writings seemed to have a Gnostic flavor. Not that He condemned God the Father but promoted Christ as the Creator God and God Almighty. He also embraced the concept of the Logos which was a Greek belief from 6 centuries prior that described a universal knowledge.
The Ecumenical Councils saw Gnostic beliefs as a threat because it was so popular at the time, and of course the beliefs outlined in John’s writings where as Yeshua was the Creator God and God Almighty and these beliefs were popular with some within the Councils so this was some of the irreconcilable arguments within the Councils. On the other hand…..
“Some” being people in the council and outside of the council.
Some believed that Yahweh was the Creator God and some believed that Yeshua was the Creator God.
Some believed in a hierarchy, that God the Father was senior to God the Son.
Some saw a difference in the character of Yahweh and Yeshua, a difference in their nature and actions.
Some believed that because God the Father begot a Son that was a God, that was proof of two Gods.
Some believed that parts of the Gospel of John validated parts of Gnosticism. Because of this and other reasons the Church had to put down the Gnostics.
These differences could not be resolved but Emperor Constantine insisted on an agreement, the one Church, one faith thing. But still the differences persisted. So the one God formula was developed …..with a whole slew theological terms to explain it, that are not in the scriptures. The reasoning was that if you imply that God is one person there cannot be a difference in character, nature, and substance and all events are attributed to that one person (God) The problem is the scriptures do not support this by direct explanation or even follow the storyline of events, particularly in the Gospels where Yahweh and Yeshua were interacting and referring to each other and referring to each other in different places. For example Christ said my Father in Heaven….Omnipresent? But Christ did not say, My Father everywhere, it is always My Father in Heaven.
So as it is….
The McKenzie Bible Dictionary explains it this way.... “The Trinity of God is defined by the Church as the belief that in God there are three persons who subsist in one nature. The belief as so defined was reached only in the 4th and 5th centuries AD and hence is not explicitly or formally a biblical belief.” Which hold true to the fact that the word Trinity does not occur in the Holy Bible.
But issuing the doctrine of the Trinity was not enough because Emperor Constantine believed that all of Christianity should be one belief….one Faith. Continued.....
