Am I the only one on the planet who understands Romans 7?

[Johann]

I don't read in the Bible anything about absolute perfection. I read about sin. Here's an example...

Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

It does not say...

Whosoever abideth in him is in a state of absolute perfection-unable to miss the mark...

3. Do Not Be Deceived By Those Who Say John Was “Mystery-Aware”

This is going to fly right over your head-

John Wasn’ John Wasn’t Talking to You
Part II in a Series on the Hebrew Epistles
“I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment,
which ye had from the beginning” – 1 John 2:7

1. The Theme of John’s Epistles is Love Future Salvation Conditional Upon Your Works
a. At least 30 out of 132 total verses in John’s epistles (that’s 23%!) describe the
audience receiving salvation if they perform good works and do the law

i. 1Jn 1:7, 1:9, 2:3, 2:5, 2:9, 2:15, 2:17, 2:29, 3:6-7, 3:9-10, 3:14-15, 3:17,
3:19-21, 3:24, 4:7-8, 4:12, 4:15-16, 4:20-21, 5:16, 5:18; 2Jn 1:9; 3Jn 1:11

b. Different ways John communicates the necessity for good works:

i. “if we walk…his Son cleanses us from all sin”(1Jn 1:7)Eph 2:8-9, Ti 3:5-7
ii. “If we confess our sins, he is faithful…to forgive us”(1Jn 1:9)Eph 4:32, Ro 4:5-7
iii. “…we know him if we keep his commandments” (1Jn 2:3)Mat 19:17, Rom 3:21
iv. “…everyone that doeth righteousness is born of him.”(1Jn 2:29)John 3:5-6
v. “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin…”(1Jn3:9)
vi. “…He that loveth not…abideth in death.”(1Jn3:14)
vii. 1Jn 3:24 = commandment keeping is how they know they have the Spirit
1. John 15:1-7, Mat 7:19 vs Eph 1:13 & 3:17

c. They are “in him” based on maintaining their covenant, not by grace through faith
d. The audience’s completeness still yet future 1John 2:28, 2John 1:8
2. John Clearly Describes His Message/Commandment Clearly
Hint: it’s not the revelation of the mystery of Christ or the gospel of the grace of God
a. “…that God is light and in him is no darkness…” (1Jn1:5)
b. “…that we should love one another…”(1Jn 3:11)
i. John uses the word “love” 61x’s (approx. every other vs.)
ii. But it’s defined differently & made a requirement to be in Christ (see below)
c. They must believe on the cross the name of Jesus, that he is the Christ, the Son of God
i. 1John 3:23, 4:15, 5:1, 5:5, 5:10-13
ii. See also (Gospel of) John 1:12, 2:23, 3:18, 14:13-14, 15:16, 16:23, 20:31

3. Do Not Be Deceived By Those Who Say John Was “Mystery-Aware”
a. Whether he learned it from Paul or not is irrelevant: his epistles don’t contain it
i. John never speaks of a present possession of salvation by grace through faith in
the finished crosswork of Jesus Christ, head of the body of Christ, a new creature
where there is neither Jew nor Greek, no covenant or law, that will reign in
heavenly places separate from Israel’s kingdom on the earth

b. People flock to the similarities to discount the differences – that’s 100% backwards
c. 1Jo 2:2, 4:14 “he is the propitiation for our sins…also for…the whole world” Isa 52-53
d. 1Jo 2:25 “he has promised us…eternal life” – Gen 3:22, Gen 17:7, Job 19:25-26
e. 1Jo 3:16, 4:9-10 “perceive we the love of God b/c he laid down his life for us…”
i. Consider John 15:13 vs. Rom 5:6-10
4. The Audience for John’s Epistles is the Little Flock, Israel’s Believing Remnant
1Jo 1:1 “…we have seen with our eyes…we have looked upon
…our hands have handled…the Word of life”
John 13:23, Luke 7:44,
Luke 24:39
Rom 9:5, 2Cor 5:7, 5:16
1Jo 2:7, 5:3
2Jo 1:5-6
“I write an old commandment…which ye have heard
from the beginning…that we keep his commandments…” Deut 10:12-13
1Jo 2:20
1Jo 2:27
“…ye have an unction from the Holy One
and ye know all things…the anointing which…
ye need not that any man teach you…”
Mat 10:19-20, Act 4:13
2Ti2:15, Eph 3:4,
Col 1:10
1Jo 3:4 “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law…” Dan 9:11, Jas 2:9-10
Rom 4:15, 6:14, 8:2
1Jo 3:22 &
5:14-15
“…whatsoever we ask, we receive…because we
keep his commandments and do [righteousness]…
1Pet 3:12, Ps 34:15-17
Mat 7:7-8, 21:22
2Jo 1:1 “…unto the elect lady and her children…” Isa 45:4, Ezk 16, Rev 12
2Jo 1:7 “…many deceivers…who confess not that
Jesus Christ is come in the flesh…”
John 1:14, Mat 10:32,
Rom 10:9-10
2Cor 5:16, Rom 15:8
3Jo 1:2 “…that thou mayest prosper and be in health…”
Acts 5:16 & 8:7
Isa 58:8, John 10:10
2Cor 12:9, Rom 8:18
3Jo 1:5-6 “…thou doest faithfully…to the brethren,
and to strangers…thou shalt do well”
Mat 25:33-41, Heb
13:1-3, Deut 10:18-19
John 13:34-35
3Jo 1:7 “…[the brethren] went forth,
taking nothing of the Gentiles…”
Rom 2:24 & 17,
Exo 20:7, Col 3:11

Search

graceambassadors.com

Shalom
J.

 

[Peterlag]

That he is addressing Jewish Christians doesn't make it not addressing the Church. No doubt some of the non-Jewish Christians were aware to some degree of the Law of Moses. That is not something Paul hid from them.

Romans 7 is not addressing Jewish Christians. It's addressing Jews. No Christians there. Nor is there a term in the Bible that says Jewish Christians.

 

[Fred J]

Romans 8:2

What i meant is, where are these law written for us to learn and stay free?

 

[Peterlag]

It’s there about the “ sin nature “ ..only you can’t see / hear...because you are spiritually blind and deaf....anyone can see that...just by reading your posts...

You have no understanding/ knowledge of anything spiritual....

Bingo

 

[Peterlag]

What i meant is, where are these law written for us to learn and stay free?

The best advice I could give you is to read the book. You will probably learn a lot... www.carb-fat.com/jesus.html

 

[Johann]

Romans 7 is not addressing Jewish Christians. It's addressing Jews. No Christians there. Nor is there a term in the Bible that says Jewish Christians.

No Christians there?

The Church at Rome
We have no solid evidence of what means God had used to bring the church at Rome into existence.
There is no reason to think that the apostle Peter had been to Rome prior to this time. Perhaps the most
plausible explanation is that converts from Pentecost had gone to Rome. Other Christians may have
immigrated from elsewhere and joined themselves to this church at the heart of the Empire. Without
doubt there was a constant stream of travelers to and from Rome.
It becomes clear that there were both Jews and Gentiles in this church. The apostle addresses both
directly (2:17; 11:13); he refers to his “kinsmen” (16:7,11) yet magnifies his office as an apostle to the
Gentiles and to the church and his intention to visit (1:5,13). He was acquainted with some of its
members (16:3–15, suggesting that the membership of the Roman church was predominantly Gentile.

 

[Peterlag]

No Christians there?

The Church at Rome
We have no solid evidence of what means God had used to bring the church at Rome into existence.
There is no reason to think that the apostle Peter had been to Rome prior to this time. Perhaps the most
plausible explanation is that converts from Pentecost had gone to Rome. Other Christians may have
immigrated from elsewhere and joined themselves to this church at the heart of the Empire. Without
doubt there was a constant stream of travelers to and from Rome.
It becomes clear that there were both Jews and Gentiles in this church. The apostle addresses both
directly (2:17; 11:13); he refers to his “kinsmen” (16:7,11) yet magnifies his office as an apostle to the
Gentiles and to the church and his intention to visit (1:5,13). He was acquainted with some of its
members (16:3–15, suggesting that the membership of the Roman church was predominantly Gentile.

Find me a verse that says "Gentile Christian" or "Jewish Christian" because I never saw such a concept in the Scripture. These might be your ideas of men, but they are not the writings of Scripture. In the Bible you are either Jew, Gentile, of belong to the church of God. There's no half Gentile and half Christian that produces a double nature.

 

[MatthewG]

There are no words in the Bible that refers to sinless perfection.

Praise be to Yahava.

 

[Johann]

Find me a verse that says "Gentile Christian" or "Jewish Christian" because I never saw such a concept in the Scripture. These might be your ideas of men, but they are not the writings of Scripture. In the Bible you are either Jew, Gentile, of belong to the church of God. There's no half Gentile and half Christian that produces a double nature.

Are you serious?

CHURCH (ekklēsia)

This Greek term, ekklēsia, is from two words, "out of" and "called." This word had secular a use (i.e., citizens called to a meeting, cf. Acts 19:32,39,41) and because of the Septuagint's use of this term for "congregation" of Israel (Qahal, BDB 874, KB 1078, cf. Num. 16:3; 20:4; Deut. 31:30), a religious use. The early church saw themselves as a continuation of the OT people of God. They were the new Israel (cf. Rom. 2:28-29; Gal. 3:29; 6:16; 1 Pet. 2:5,9; Rev. 1:6), the fulfillment of God's worldwide mission (cf. Gen. 3:15; 12:3; Exod. 19:5-6; Matt. 28:18-20; Luke 24:47; Acts 1:8;

This term is used in several senses in the Gospels and Acts.

1. secular town meeting, Acts 19:32,39,41

2. universal people of God in Christ, Matt. 16:18 and Ephesians

3. a local congregation of believers in Christ, Matt. 18:17; Acts 5:11 (in these verses, the church in Jerusalem); Acts 13:1; Rom. 16:5; 1 C or. 16:19; Col. 4:15; Philemon v. 2

4. the people of Israel collectively, Acts 7:38, in Stephen's sermon

5. the people of God in a region, Acts 8:3; Gal. 1:2 (Judah or Palestine)

The church is a gathered people, not a building. There were no church buildings for hundreds of years. In James (one of the earliest Christian books) the church is referred to by the term "synagōgē" (the assembly). This term for the church occurs only in James (cf. James 2:2; 5:14

Shall we say Jewish saints and Christian saints? That NOT in Scriptures?.

 

[JBO]

Romans 7 is not addressing Jewish Christians. It's addressing Jews. No Christians there. Nor is there a term in the Bible that says Jewish Christians.

You think there were no Jews who were Christian. If you object to the phrase "Jewish Christians", then how about Christian Jews?

 

[Johann]

You think there were no Jews who were Christian. If you object to the phrase "Jewish Christians", then how about Christian Jews?

Or kodeshim-plural?

 

[Zachariah.]

I would respond to this if I knew what you were saying.

Well that's unfortunate isn't it. If you would like me to explain a bit more in depth let me know.

 

[Fred J]

The best advice I could give you is to read the book. You will probably learn a lot... www.carb-fat.com/jesus.html

Well, what book?

 

[Peterlag]

Well, what book?

This book... www.carb-fat.com/jesus.html

 

[Peterlag]

Well that's unfortunate isn't it. If you would like me to explain a bit more in depth let me know.

I don't know about depth. How about not complicated?

 

[Peterlag]

You think there were no Jews who were Christian. If you object to the phrase "Jewish Christians", then how about Christian Jews?

The Bible does not use that language. And so we need to read it in the light that it is written and not what you think about Christians and Jews. The Bible simply does not use that language so don't put it on me like if I'm the one who does not like the language. When we can't understand how the Bible is written is how we get all kinds of people on here not knowing who the Scriptures are talking about. When it says Gentiles it does not mean Christians. When it says believers in the Epistles it does not mean Jews.

 

[Peterlag]

Are you serious?

CHURCH (ekklēsia)

This Greek term, ekklēsia, is from two words, "out of" and "called." This word had secular a use (i.e., citizens called to a meeting, cf. Acts 19:32,39,41) and because of the Septuagint's use of this term for "congregation" of Israel (Qahal, BDB 874, KB 1078, cf. Num. 16:3; 20:4; Deut. 31:30), a religious use. The early church saw themselves as a continuation of the OT people of God. They were the new Israel (cf. Rom. 2:28-29; Gal. 3:29; 6:16; 1 Pet. 2:5,9; Rev. 1:6), the fulfillment of God's worldwide mission (cf. Gen. 3:15; 12:3; Exod. 19:5-6; Matt. 28:18-20; Luke 24:47; Acts 1:8;

This term is used in several senses in the Gospels and Acts.

1. secular town meeting, Acts 19:32,39,41

2. universal people of God in Christ, Matt. 16:18 and Ephesians

3. a local congregation of believers in Christ, Matt. 18:17; Acts 5:11 (in these verses, the church in Jerusalem); Acts 13:1; Rom. 16:5; 1 C or. 16:19; Col. 4:15; Philemon v. 2

4. the people of Israel collectively, Acts 7:38, in Stephen's sermon

5. the people of God in a region, Acts 8:3; Gal. 1:2 (Judah or Palestine)

The church is a gathered people, not a building. There were no church buildings for hundreds of years. In James (one of the earliest Christian books) the church is referred to by the term "synagōgē" (the assembly). This term for the church occurs only in James (cf. James 2:2; 5:14

Shall we say Jewish saints and Christian saints? That NOT in Scriptures?.

The Bible does not use that language. When we can't understand how the Bible is written is how we get all kinds of people on here not knowing who the Scriptures are talking about. When it says Gentiles it does not mean Christians. When it says believers in the Epistles it does not mean Jews. When it's addressed to the church of God it does not mean it's addressed to Israel. I do not know why we have so many Christians who believe the entire Bible is written directly to them, the Church of God. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate such thinking, and I would like to add nothing could be further from the truth. It's true the Word of God was written for everyone for all time, and it's for our learning because it contains what everyone should know. That does not mean every part of it is addressed to everyone in this time, because the subject matter was written either to the Jews, to the Gentiles, or to the Church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32).

 

[Johann]

The Bible does not use that language. When we can't understand how the Bible is written is how we get all kinds of people on here not knowing who the Scriptures are talking about. When it says Gentiles it does not mean Christians. When it says believers in the Epistles it does not mean Jews. When it's addressed to the church of God it does not mean it's addressed to Israel. I do not know why we have so many Christians who believe the entire Bible is written directly to them, the Church of God. There is nothing in the Bible to indicate such thinking, and I would like to add nothing could be further from the truth. It's true the Word of God was written for everyone for all time, and it's for our learning because it contains what everyone should know. That does not mean every part of it is addressed to everyone in this time, because the subject matter was written either to the Jews, to the Gentiles, or to the Church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32).

Correct-to either the unregenerate-Believing Yehudi-believing Goyim-who are all kodeshim.
That is why it is Imperative to rightly cutting straight the word of YHVH.

Rom 10:12 For there is no difference [ Distinction (diastolē). See note on this word Rom_3:22. Here it is followed by the ablative case Ioudaiou te kai Hellēnos (between Jew and Greek).between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.]

Rom_3:22, Rom_3:29-30, Rom_4:11-12, Rom_9:24; Act_10:34-35, Act_15:8-9; Gal_3:28; Eph_2:18-22; Eph_3:6; Col_3:11

Joh_20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Act_16:34 And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house.

Act_24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Rom_15:13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.

1Ti_6:2 And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort.

1Pe_1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory:

 

[Fred J]

This book... www.carb-fat.com/jesus.html

What about in the Holy Bible, when All Scripture is breathed out by GOD?

 

[Zachariah.]

Ok so this is in reply to my last post.

"When Paul speaks of the deliverance of law I think he is referring to justice. If we look at God's Law as the ultimate "cause" and Justice as the "affect" created by the cause. Then to be delivered from the law is to be delivered from the plane of affect, where sin resides.

So in a sence, we become the cause and the law itself rather than being the effect."

There are two forms of law in this world. There is Divine law which is an eternal principle based in Truth, and then there is man's law which man simply makes up himself.

The True definition is Law is that it is binding and immutable, meaning it cannot change under any circumstances. This clearly means that man's law is not real Law but only a claim. As man's law changes from state to state, country to country.

Therefore we cannot rely apon ma s law. The only Law that can be relied apon is the universal, eternal Law that is based in Truth which is what we refer to as God or God's Law.

Divine law is found within your own conscience ofter referred to as the Holy Spirit. Conscience is not different for everyone, rather it is the same. "Con" meaning "together" or "common" and science meaning science. Conscience Therefore means "common science" or "common sence". It is something that is common in all of us.

This understanding can be correlated with what we would call a "saved soul" or an "unsaved sould". A soul that has been saved by the grace of God is one that has come back to its conciouse self. An unsaved soul is a soul that is unconscious.

An unconscious soul is a "blind" soul and relies apon the corrupt "man's law" as it cannot see the difference between right and wrong within its own heart. It must look to something exterior from itself.

A conciouse soul has been "delivered" from this blind state and no longer relies apon "man's law" as there is no need to. A fully conciouse soul is one that is of God.

Remember that man's law and God's Law are diametrically apposed opposites, as one utilizes the conscience and the other does not.

And we can only serve one master.