Adam, Eve, and evolution
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Science works the best current explanation. Evolution is currently the best scientific explanation. By science, I mean a theory supported by mathematics, statistics, and logic.
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
You can rest easy.... Ever since I had a geographic tongue issue about 6 years ago and food tastes went totally askew... and then when I had long covid and I still cant smell onions cooking in the frying pan... iI pretty much have lost all taste for most meat...I just watched a YouTube video about a hypothesis that Neanderthals were carnivores, and their favorite food was humans (link).
I'll be keeping an eye out for any hungry looks from you.
And that's the truth. I may never enjoy prime rib or a good Filet Mignon again
Although , on second thought...you do look a little tasty.
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Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
I debated a little of this 20 years ago with a guy who knew much more than me and was totally in with evolution, micro and macro. I don't have enough of the needed education to argue from the perspective of scientific evidence.
So I can't disprove macro-evolution. Rob Strom claimed that there are retrovirus markers in different species that had to be the product of evolution. Well, I'll have to leave it to the experts. ;)
Keep in mind that Science absolutely cannot argue for or against Creation, except in the way Discovery Institute does. There is no philosophy that can argue against the possibility of a God-Creator. God may have hidden His invisible hand within the Natural Record, implanting processes that explain these changes.
And though we have the geological history of the world with all of its appearing species, how can we know any more than what the fossils tell us, that species appeared successively over long periods of time? I don't question the dating of old rocks.
If God created species in large families independently, the only way we can know this is if there are transitional fossils. And they aren't there, though it can be argued that over great spans of time we might not find the surviving fossils.
A relatively sudden mutation from a major species to another has to have a reason for that change, and we may argue that a small amount of change in "programming" can make such changes. However, it is not enough for me personally to know that God used similar "building blocks of life" in constructing champs and people.
As a good friend, now deceased, said to an atheist friend a long time ago, "Your Dad is an ape, but mine is God!" :)
I just believe the Scriptures that indicate God created the different species. He doesn't say how, however. So I'll leave it up to you, if you have more information than I do. :)
Zachariah.
Member
Absolute rubbish. Stop trying to make scientific fact fit into your false belief system. Things don't work like that. Wake up to yourself, your a grown man.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Yes, you're talking about uniformitarianism--did scientific principles, including time and natural progress, always exist as they do now, even before Man 1st began to witness the processes on earth? I feel certain that God could make the earth, seemingly 4.5 billion years old, actually only exist in a moment before Adam's creation. He could certainly do so. But would He do so?
I don't think so. Why would God embed oil in the ground as if created by millions of years of natural processes, if He could just put it in storage containers ready-made? Why would He produce fossilized tree rings if He could simply produce non-ringed tree fossils, or no fossilized trees at all? Why bury all of these fossils in ancient rocks at all, knowing that they could be dated by natural conversion from one element to another? Did God really want to fool Man, which is the very thing He condemns about Satan?
It's simpler, to my thinking, to just recognize that natural processes are there for us to discover. Perhaps God knew that Satan would corrupt Man, who wants to work independent of divine revelation, and dig up truth via scientific processes for himself?
God may have just graciously buried all kinds of data for us, using a consistent system of natural development, so that we could discover truth for ourselves, with or without divine revelation. After all, people do not always go to God for truth 1st, but are skeptical, and look to themselves before looking to their Creator.
I just don't know. I keep my ears open for both divine revelation and scientific input. Truth comes from both sources. Thanks brother!
Evolution is a lie, a myth. The bible says everything was created after its own kind Gen 1:20. Nothing evolved from one thing to another. All man contrived nonsense.
Can you be more specific? I prefer to debate people who can think precisely and write specifically.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
Christian Theism, which assumes Nature's Laws remain constant from the Big Bang, claims that the ability of Nature to self-create is what God designed, and that Nature, as such, does not change. That is, the laws of natural evolution continue to operate without divine intervention. God does not create each species at a time, but allows Nature to undergo the process of Natural Selection to gradually produce biological diversity.
Creationism, young earth or old earth, believes that God intervenes in history to produce biological diversity, and that such diversity cannot be explained by natural processes alone. Here is how Discovery Institute shows the inconsistency in Van Til's position of Theistic Evolution CLICK.
Years ago I leaned towards a Young Earth idea, thinking it was truer to the biblical record. The evidence for an old universe and an old earth I dismissed as a false assumption that the laws of Nature remain the same. Light may have travelled faster than it normally travels. Time may have speeded up, etc. etc. 4 billion years may have taken place in short order, because for God the laws of science do not apply.
Major changes on the earth were not explained as millions of years of geological weathering and shifting. Instead, Noah's Flood was blamed for everything, and it was claimed that a world-wide Flood accomplished in just a year what some think took thousands and thousands, and perhaps millions of years. The Grand Canyon may have resulted from a catastrophic event, rather than as a gradual weathering and eroding process, indicated by many geological layers of soil.
Some years back I read a lovely book by a scientist who was also a Christian. His book "The Christian View of Science and Scripture," took me by surprise. He argued that biblical language is not always properly understood as understood in the time it was verbalized and later written. There was no sense of a *global Flood* in Noah's time. People did not, at that time, think of the earth as a "globe."
The whole earth was covered with water when as far as you could see with your eyes the entire ground was covered with seas. That's how people in Noah's time would've understood, "the whole earth was flooded with water." And that did happen in the region of the Black Sea. The geological evidence, I've heard, shows that.
The idea of a universal Flood would not be possible unless the laws of Nature were bypassed on a major scale! Animals, birds, fish and even the insect world require certain habitats which would disappear with a universal Flood. And such an amount of water to cover the earth would require much more water than even exists on the earth!
What looked like a fable suddenly looked real to me. Noah was asked to preserve representative samples, in his region, of various animals on the ark to show that God did not want to destroy the earth, with all of its animals, and have to start creating all over again.
This author, Bernard Ramm, also opened up my views on the short-comings of the Young Earth Creation theory. Young Earth brain-child Henry Morris, and his friends meant well, but they made use of a God who really "fools us" with evidence for an old earth! ;)
I don't intentionally insult Young Earthers--they want to believe what they think the Bible teaches. That's important, that they believe in God and the Scriptures, however they may interpret it, right or wrong. At least they take their Salvation seriously.
Nothing to debate if you believe the bible. The answer was provided previously in post #29 above.
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