abomination of desolation?
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Bartholomew Jones
Member
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Thats how I feel about the book of Genesis.
Well, like an overview of ALL.
The abomination standing in the holy place..
I see it as a desecration of the Sabbath.
I see it at the crucifixion of Christ.
I see it as the New World Order.
take away peace from the world, destroy faith.. abomination, not to us, but to God.
I see the "idol" as I.. the who I am, putting myself above God, sitting on my throne. Pride. Ego.
I don't know if it is for the individual or the world as a whole.
I can see it all kinds of ways.
Bartholomew Jones
Member
It's good to ask questions. It's good to ponder them. That's baby steps to learning right meditation.
Bartholomew Jones
Member
The bible says out of the mouth of two or three witnesses. Paul may be one witness since that's where I saw that at. He also said he was coming somewhere. Or it could just be God and Jesus. It depends on what their testimony is about and what they witnessed. abomination of desolation is a setup I believe. Probably just some "rejected" person made desolate. It says someone stands in the holy place. Seems like the holy place was replaced for a time being or something. The only holy place in the bible is the "temple" aka as the church. Go read matthew 24 and see how the temple was destroyed. It also says one stone upon another shall not remain meaning everyone will be judged or has to bow down to the Lord and also see how the rejected church became the "corner stone." The church by the way is David's city whom God chosen aka as daughter Zion/ Isreal/ Jerusalem which who is a person btw.
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Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
Hi J123456, ;)
Ummmmmmmm, if a person understood a modern instance of where/what an Abomination of Desolation might entail, they could then anticipate what type of circumstance might prevail. So please consider an event that has THREE separate Scriptural citations which affirm, and is "modern":
The “giving over of the sanctuary and host to be trampled under foot” was fulfilled in Istanbul, Turkey, at 9:20 a.m. on September 7, 1986. During the Saturday Sabbath services, two Arab terrorists with machine guns and hand grenades stormed Istanbul’s main synagogue, the Neve Shalom, (“Oasis of Peace”). They secured the main door, positioned themselves 30 feet apart, and began firing. After killing 21 men, wounding 4, and leaving 1 teenage boy unscathed, they poured gasoline over the carnage and the bodies, and set it all on fire. In a final act of destruction, they pulled the pins on their respective hand grenades which blew one terrorist to pieces and left the second one with only the upper torso intact. The women, who sat upstairs according to tradition, escaped harm. .[1], [2], [3]
Eight months later, in May 1987, the Neve Shalom was reopened behind bullet-proof glass doors and security cameras.[4]
[1] “Synagogue Slaughter Claims 24,” Associated Press, Istanbul, Turkey, Albuquerque Journal, Sept.7, 1986, p. A1
[2] “Gunmen’s Identities Stump Investigators,” A.P., Istanbul, Turkey, Albuquerque Jorunal, Sept.9, 1986, p. A8
[3] “Turkish Leader Links Synagogue Attack to Beirut,” L.A. Times/Washington Post Service, Istanbul, Turkey, Albuquerque Journal, Sept.8, 1986, p. A8
[4] Precker, Michael, “Jews Return to ‘Secure’ Synagogue,” Dallas Morning News, Albuquerque Journal, July 7, 1987, p. B11
Eight months later, in May 1987, the Neve Shalom was reopened behind bullet-proof glass doors and security cameras.[4]
[1] “Synagogue Slaughter Claims 24,” Associated Press, Istanbul, Turkey, Albuquerque Journal, Sept.7, 1986, p. A1
[2] “Gunmen’s Identities Stump Investigators,” A.P., Istanbul, Turkey, Albuquerque Jorunal, Sept.9, 1986, p. A8
[3] “Turkish Leader Links Synagogue Attack to Beirut,” L.A. Times/Washington Post Service, Istanbul, Turkey, Albuquerque Journal, Sept.8, 1986, p. A8
[4] Precker, Michael, “Jews Return to ‘Secure’ Synagogue,” Dallas Morning News, Albuquerque Journal, July 7, 1987, p. B11
And so it is a "Holy Place of Worship", but not a Newly Constructed TEMPLE as some suppose; and it pertains to GOD's Worshipers.
:)
Bobby Jo
No the city is being trampled and persecuted somewhere now just like any of us would be persecuted now in our life. What you posted sounds like false doctrine. God loves the church. It's precious to him. Isaiah 43. So that could mean "worship" too. So that place is being destroyed now thru persecution. You can also read that in revelation 11 when the holy city becomes desolate. It says the temple was left out (and given to the gentiles for 42 months) meaning forsaken. So we could be in those 42 months now because we don't know who or where that holy place is. Only they know they are being persecuted and destroyed now. You can also read luke 21 about that holy city and it's armies.
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Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
... and GOD loved his SON, but some things have to occur which are according to GOD's Plan for mankind, and the Abomination of Desolation is one of those things which gives GOD Righteous Judgement over those people. -- And as already proposed, this specific event is depicted in THREE separate Scriptural passages.
Perhaps you're not as familiar with Scripture to make an informed decision, but it is something you can watch for and see exactly how the a/c accomplishes the final AoD before being cast into the pit:
Dan. 9:27 ... and upon the wing of abominations shall come one who makes desolate, until the decreed end is poured out on the desolator.”
:)
Bobby Jo
Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
That sounds like the abomination.
The one that made the holy place desolate. It also sounds like someone getting vegeance.
That's not seventy years. The seventy sevens just sounds like something being done over and over again.
Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
Ummmmmmmmm, I like the line from the movie "Tombstone" where "Wyatt" & "Doc" are talking about "Ringo", something to the effect of "vengence", -- for what?, -- for being born.
And satan exacts his "vengeance" for being thrown out of heaven against all who worship GOD. -- And so two Arab men sent by Abu Nidal "exacted their revenge" against innocent Jews in the Main Synagogue in Istanbul. But that wasn't the end of it. Apparently the Mossad tracked Nidal to Baghdad where he died from FIVE Self Inflicted gun shots, and having thrown himself down Two Flights of Stairs.
Yep, they ruled it a SUICIDE! :)
Bobby Jo
Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I know, -- we get little help from the English Translation, and even less help from the commentators.
There are roughly a DOZEN discrepancies for the "seventy weeks", which nobody can explain:
In the book, “Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation,” John Walvoord writes regarding the interpretation of the seventy “weeks:”
“... Montgomery, for all of his scholarship and knowledge of the history of interpretation, ends up with no reasonable interpretation at all.”[1]
“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”[2]
“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”[3]
[1] John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217
[2] IBID, p. 217
[3] IBID, p. 218
“... Montgomery, for all of his scholarship and knowledge of the history of interpretation, ends up with no reasonable interpretation at all.”[1]
“... as Young points out, the word ‘sevens’ is in the masculine plural instead of the usual feminine plural. No clear explanation is given except that Young feels ‘it was for the deliberate purpose of calling attention to the fact that the word “sevens” is employed in an unusual sense.’”[2]
“...Young finally concludes after some discussion that Keil and Kliefoth are correct when they hold that the word ‘sevens’ does not necessarily mean year-weeks, but an intentionally indefinite designation of a period of time measured by the number seven, which chronological duration must be determined on other grounds.”[3]
[1] John Walvoord, Daniel, The Key to Prophetic Revelation, Moody Press, Chicago, 1971, p. 217
[2] IBID, p. 217
[3] IBID, p. 218
So where an intelligent person would start by obeying the angel's END-TIME instructions in 12:4 & 9, these people start with ANCIENT HISTORY and then can't figure out what went wrong.
Of course there IS an explanation which resolves all roughly DOZEN inconsistencies, but it takes a bit of effort to go through the Context, the Text, and the History. And I can easily do it, but it takes several hours and even then the concepts are so foreign, it's like teaching calculus to someone who's never had algebra.
::)
Bobby Jo
Bobby Jo
Well-Known Member
... and appoints people to the evil in their hearts, -- like the a/c.
:)
Bobby Jo
Ziggy
Well-Known Member
Psa 24:3 Who shall ascend into the hill of the LORD? or who shall stand in his holy place?
Isa 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:
Dan 11:29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
Dan 11:30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
Dan 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
Dan 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
Dan 11:34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
Dan 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
Ships of Chittim:
Ships: tsiy
dryness, a dry region, a desert
a dry place in the midst of waters
Chittim: Kittiy
Chittim or Kittim = "bruisers"
a general term for all islanders of the Mediterranean Sea
the descendants of Javan, the son of Japheth and grandson of Noah
Javan:
Javan = "Ionia" or "Greece"
holy covenant: Hello John..
Luke 1: 67-75
And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
Who are the "they" polluting the sanctuary of strength? And take away the daily sacrifice, and place..place.
Place: nathan
to give, put, set
to give, bestow, grant, permit, ascribe, employ, devote, consecrate, dedicate, pay wages, sell, exchange, lend, commit, entrust, give over, deliver up, yield produce, occasion, produce, requite to, report, mention, utter, stretch out, extend
they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
Dan 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries:
What covenant? The oath God sware to Abraham.
What is that Oath?
Sanctuary of Strength:
Sanctuary: miqdash
sacred place, sanctuary, holy place
a consecrated thing or place, especially, a palace, sanctuary (whether of Jehovah or of idols) or asylum:—chapel, hallowed part, holy place, sanctuary.
Strength: ma`owz
place or means of safety, protection, refuge, stronghold
refuge (of God) (fig.)
human protection (fig.)
Deu 33:27 The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.
Isa 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:
Dan 11:29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter.
Dan 11:30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.
Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
Dan 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
Dan 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
Dan 11:34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
Dan 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.
Ships of Chittim:
Ships: tsiy
dryness, a dry region, a desert
a dry place in the midst of waters
Chittim: Kittiy
Chittim or Kittim = "bruisers"
a general term for all islanders of the Mediterranean Sea
the descendants of Javan, the son of Japheth and grandson of Noah
Javan:
Javan = "Ionia" or "Greece"
holy covenant: Hello John..
Luke 1: 67-75
And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;
To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,
That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,
In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.
Who are the "they" polluting the sanctuary of strength? And take away the daily sacrifice, and place..place.
Place: nathan
to give, put, set
to give, bestow, grant, permit, ascribe, employ, devote, consecrate, dedicate, pay wages, sell, exchange, lend, commit, entrust, give over, deliver up, yield produce, occasion, produce, requite to, report, mention, utter, stretch out, extend
they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
Dan 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries:
What covenant? The oath God sware to Abraham.
What is that Oath?
Sanctuary of Strength:
Sanctuary: miqdash
sacred place, sanctuary, holy place
a consecrated thing or place, especially, a palace, sanctuary (whether of Jehovah or of idols) or asylum:—chapel, hallowed part, holy place, sanctuary.
Strength: ma`owz
place or means of safety, protection, refuge, stronghold
refuge (of God) (fig.)
human protection (fig.)
Deu 33:27 The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.
Yeah. Well anointing don't mean nothing. It's whether God can trust them too and whether they will still be for him in the end. That's why God is mysterious he don't even trust his prophets and servants. Sometimes God has to correct his own people. There's also something mysterious about "satan". Does satan even exist cause when I read the Bible I don't see satan nowhere but in the book of Job. Job 2 Lucifer is the assyria king/king of babylon I think. Isaiah 14
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Waiting on him
Well-Known Member
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