A rather rhetorical question for the "Hell is FOREVER" crowd

[ScottA]

So @Grailhunter and @ScottA What methods do you believe God uses to torture his children? Do you think he slowly cuts off the testicles of men continuously all day and all night? How about pulling out fingernails and toenails? Or how about shoving ice picks into people's ears, do you think he does that too? What other methods do you believe God uses to torture his children?

None. But He does let them touch the stove if they stomp their feet and insist.

 

[Patrick1966]

God does not send His children to eternal suffering. He only sends those children of Satan, after first offering them adoption, if they refuse and insist on staying with their own father.

No my brother.

We live in a world of deception wherein there are veils everywhere. Also, we are told that faith is a gift from God. For reasons that we don't know, that gift isn't given to everyone. Anyone who rejects God in this life only does so because they are blind, lost, and ignorant of who and what is God. Once the dross is removed they will be able to see and appreciate and then they will choose God. That is the purpose of the Lake of Fire.

 

[Patrick1966]

He does let them touch the stove if they stomp their feet and insist.

Absolutely. We learn that our ways lead to destruction.

 

[Grailhunter]

I think pride, ego, and arrogance get in the way. They cannot accept that their understanding is erroneous.

No, not at all.
Most Christians are going to be against those that try to deceive and twist the scriptures. And the Bible teaches that they should be against this type of deception and false teachings.

The Apostles were tasked with using a Pagan language(s) that did not have expressions of Christian morals or imagery. So they had to use Greek words but alter the definitions so as to fit Christian morals. Something as simple as the word sin.....the Greek word for sin has no moral implication....it just meant they missed the target. There is a lot of that going on where Christians are making adjustments to the definitions of Greek words to fit Christian morals. The definitions and the context as well.

Although fornication and it definition is not scriptural, there are actual Greek words in the scriptures that define various sexual activities. For the Greeks and Romans these sexual activities were not usually considered wrong....even part of their culture. But the Christians used these words in the New Testament scriptures....keeping the definitions but changing the context to be sinful. This sort of thing happened a lot.

But the problem with this is that it makes for an inaccurate or clumsy expression of meaning unless you keep it in a Christian context.

 

[Patrick1966]

 

[Jack]

ONE.

FIRE.

I agree, but can you imagine being in prison with Satan and the worst beings who ever lived, forever?

 

[Jack]

Nope. Hell is punitive but it's punitive for the purpose of correction. It is also purifying, restorative, and a temporary process.

Then why does Jesus use the terms, "everlasting" and "forever and ever"? And why is the rich man in Luke 16 dead but very much alive in the fire?

 

[Jack]

So dramatic.

The original translation from Greek was botched, quite possibly on purpose.

There are countless verses from multiple Bible authors that demonstrate that ALL will be saved in the end.

So, all of our Bibles are wrong and you are right?

 

[Jack]

The dead don't suffer or praise God.

Have you read Luke 16? The rich man died but was tormented in the fire.

 

[Patrick1966]

Then why does Jesus use the terms, "everlasting" and "forever and ever"? And why is the rich man in Luke 16 dead but very much alive in the fire?

Jesus didn't use those words. For unknown reasons, the original scriptures were mistranslated. One word repeatedly mistranslated is the Greek word "aion". I encourage you to get on Google and research it. I did.

 

[Grailhunter]

Jesus didn't use those words. For unknown reasons, the original scriptures were mistranslated. One word repeatedly mistranslated is the Greek word "aion". I encourage you to get on Google and research it. I did.

And you think there is a mystery here?

 

[Patrick1966]

Have you read Luke 16? The rich man died but was tormented in the fire.

I believe that the Greek word for "torment" had a different meaning than how we define it today. It seems that the "tormenting" the author(s) used had the following definition and purpose, which is ultimately to test and refine the souls of the lost.

(copy and paste)
Basanos speaks about a touchstone. A touchstone is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of silver and gold. The person would rub the metal on the stone and the color of the streak produced would show what it is. However, this word also means when someone is tortured. That’s because there is a force exerted in torturing someone for them to expose the truth.

This word is used of physical diseases (Matthew 4:24) and those in hell after death (Luke 16:23).

“And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.”

– Luke 16:23

 

[Patrick1966]

And you think there is a mystery here?

The Catholic Church used to sell "get out of purgatory". There was/is a lot of corruption and false doctrines that have been disseminated. It takes a discerning eye to recognize false doctrines.

 

[Patrick1966]

So, all of our Bibles are wrong and you are right?

The Concordance Bible is apparently the most accurate English translation. Young's Literal Translation is also good. Most other English translations, including the KJV, are egregiously erroneous.

With that said, I encourage you to get on Google and do your own research, as did I.

 

[Grailhunter]

The Catholic Church used to sell "get out of purgatory". There was/is a lot of corruption and false doctrines that have been disseminated. It takes a discerning eye to recognize false doctrines.

But it takes more talent and knowledge than what you guys have.
Corruption, false doctrines, false beliefs, scams! 30,000 denominations later.....any mystery there?
It takes a lot of knowledge to get to the truth of things.....but that is not your intent....
Charles "Taze" Russell went into the Bible trying to prove certain things....that is absolutely the wrong way to study the Bible.
The only thing that the Jehovah's Witnesses have done is generate a lot false beliefs and confusion. Satan is doing a dance.
Come to think of it....I cannot point to anything that Jehovah's Witnesses key on that is an improvement in understanding or truth. It is all wrong. There are some big errors in the Bible, but the Jehovah's Witnesses are not smart enough to know them.

 

[Patrick1966]

.I cannot point to anything that Jehovah's Witnesses...

Jehovah's Witnesses have nothing to do with this discussion. Why do you continue to derail this thread with such discussion?

 

[Patrick1966]

It takes a lot of knowledge to get to the truth of things.....but that is not your intent....

You judge and condemn me.

 

[Grailhunter]

Jehovah's Witnesses have nothing to do with this discussion. Why do you continue to derail this thread with such discussion?

I am not derailing this thread.
You guys really have nothing to offer about hell is forever. You want to talk about hell is forever. Go for it.

 

[Patrick1966]

I am not derailing this thread.
You guys really have nothing to offer about hell is forever. You want to talk about hell is forever. Go for it.

I keep telling you that I'm not a Jehovah's Witness. Why do you continue to lie and slander me?

 

[Patrick1966]

Are you scared to come out of the closet?
What am I missing.....is there another denomination that does not believe in eternal punishment or believes in universalism.
Universalism is a relatively new set of denominations.

You are destroying the decorum of this community with your unending lies and persecution of me.