Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
I do not tell lies or untruths.....do you have a persecution complex?
If you have something to offer on this topic....lets hear it.
A rather rhetorical question for the "Hell is FOREVER" crowd
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If you have something to offer on this topic....lets hear it.
I hate to do this but I must place you on "ignore" because engaging with you produces nothing fruitful. I hope that you will remember that we are called to be honest, to love one another, and that the most humble in Heaven is the greatest in Heaven. May God bless you.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
How are you qualified to say all of our Bibles are wrong?
You're a Greek expert? Every Bible I know of says you're wrong. Have you read Luke 16?
Which verse is correct?
Mathew 25:46 ESV
And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mathew 25:46 YLT
And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during
Want me to quote 30 English Bibles that say you're wrong? You didn't tell us your qualifications for being a Greek expert. Why are you attacking our Christian Bible?
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There will always be people who will be against beliefs contrary to your own: that is why I believe God has allowed freedom for people to decide freely for themselves what they may believe about him.
From the level surface, it seems like omg God is burning all these people, but the reality of what that means has be to be sought for.
Dig deeper, than the surface level.
Even so, all you can say is what you believe in your heart, and if you have a God who is mean and evil, you yourself will become that way, as they say.
From the level surface, it seems like omg God is burning all these people, but the reality of what that means has be to be sought for.
Dig deeper, than the surface level.
Even so, all you can say is what you believe in your heart, and if you have a God who is mean and evil, you yourself will become that way, as they say.
The ESV translation is erroneous. How do I know? If it's true that souls are damned FOREVER then 1 Timothy 4:10 (and many other verses) is FALSE.
The YLT translation is correct.
Any translation that says that Hell is "eternal" isn't worth the paper it's printed on
1 Timothy 4:10 esv
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
I'm happy to share God's word along with some of my own thoughts. In the long run it doesn't really matter if they believe the mistranslated verses that God sends his creation to a forever Hell.
Honestly, I don't think you're qualified to declare our Bibles to be wrong. "Savior of all people" Even the YLT says you're wrong.
Luke 16:22-24 (YLT)
and the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 and in the hades having lifted up his eyes, being in torments, he doth see Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom, 24 and having cried, he said, Father Abraham, deal kindly with me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and may cool my tongue, because I am distressed in this flame.
Grailhunter
Well-Known Member
When you are investigating a topic in detail....you have to look at the topic in detail.
The words in ancient languages have a tendency to have loose or multiple definitions. There meaning usually defined in the context in which they are used in.
If you look at a dictionary of Koine Greek and compare it to a comprehensive English dictionary, the English dictionary will dwarf the Koine Greek dictionary. Some people cannot even lift the podium dictionaries. Since there are fewer words in ancient languages they have to do double duty so to speak. So you have to look into what context the Greek words are used.
In this case we are looking at the Greek words for eternal...eternity....and the phrase forever and the phrase forever and ever.
Then you look at how are they used for the place of eternal punishment....and how they are used in relation to God and Heaven.
That will give you a good idea what these Greek words mean in the context in which they are used.
Then you use the "not method" I call it. What these word do not mean in the context they are used in. Can eternal or the phrase forever and ever mean temporary?
For example, some on this thread my think that these words mean temporary. So then you look and see if you can find that the punishment in Hell or the Lake of Fire is described as temporary. Or something that explains that this punishment is not eternal. I can tell you, that you are not going to find a belief that the punishment in Hell is temporary or a description of some one coming out of temporary punishment.
The topic that eternal punishment involving fire is rock solid in the scriptures, being attested to by Christ and the Apostles.
The words in ancient languages have a tendency to have loose or multiple definitions. There meaning usually defined in the context in which they are used in.
If you look at a dictionary of Koine Greek and compare it to a comprehensive English dictionary, the English dictionary will dwarf the Koine Greek dictionary. Some people cannot even lift the podium dictionaries. Since there are fewer words in ancient languages they have to do double duty so to speak. So you have to look into what context the Greek words are used.
In this case we are looking at the Greek words for eternal...eternity....and the phrase forever and the phrase forever and ever.
Then you look at how are they used for the place of eternal punishment....and how they are used in relation to God and Heaven.
That will give you a good idea what these Greek words mean in the context in which they are used.
Then you use the "not method" I call it. What these word do not mean in the context they are used in. Can eternal or the phrase forever and ever mean temporary?
For example, some on this thread my think that these words mean temporary. So then you look and see if you can find that the punishment in Hell or the Lake of Fire is described as temporary. Or something that explains that this punishment is not eternal. I can tell you, that you are not going to find a belief that the punishment in Hell is temporary or a description of some one coming out of temporary punishment.
The topic that eternal punishment involving fire is rock solid in the scriptures, being attested to by Christ and the Apostles.
Taken
Well-Known Member
Taken
Well-Known Member
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Here's a curious thing.
The same chapter, that the apologetic for unconscious nonexistence
in the afterlife comes from, also contains this verse below.
(as in "the dead know nothing" vs 5)
Ecclesiates 9:10 NIV
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might,
for in the realm of the dead, where you are going,
there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Thank you.
The church is so uncomfortable with the hell fire and brimstone doctrine that it has
softened it to "eternal separation" from God. Whatever that means to you.
Yet this is in direct conflict with God's omnipresence.
Furthermore, it is a questionable solution to God's justice. An eternal punishment for a finite crime.
Especially for a God who is in the business of reconciling humankind to himself.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
This scripture illustrates that that death and life hang on the actions of two men.
Note: verse 19 reads "the many", not "many", The many = all.
Romans 5:18-19 NIV
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.
