BINGO!!! And guess Who's Name they baptized in. Not the Father. Not the HS. Jesus!!!
A Question for Jehovah's Witnesses
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Runningman
Active Member
Translation: I can't refute your point about elohim referring to single individuals so keep changing the subject.
When you are ready to get serious about this my door is open.
I gave Scripture. All you could do is laugh. That's all JW's can do. Want more Scripture? Ok
ONLY God / Jesus are "the first and the last" in the Bible. Jesus is God!
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Although you asked a question, you failed to use a question mark.
I always found this verse out of place. And as you pointed out, even more so for not having context or explanation.
As I read the Bible suspicion of this verse was cemented in the fact that the Apostles did not once baptize this way but ONLY in the name of Jesus. This leads to 2 possibilities:
- The Apostles disobeyed the risen Christ, who they later showed devotion in choosing crucifixion rather than deny.
- The verse is specious
I choose #2. You?
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
They must be devotees of Peter....
On the day of Pentecost, Peter told the crowd, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (ACTS 2:38). His command concerning baptism was that it be done “in the name of Jesus Christ.”
For they must feel he was more important then Jesus, Himself.... who merely told His disciples to baptize disciples “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit” (Matt 28:19 ).
For the life of me I do not know why some just do not want to believe this is fact.
To cherry pick what you will believe and ignore what you don't understand WOW
Lookie here.... From the Watchtower Library.... "THEIR" bible.....
Mathew 28:19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations,+ baptizing them+ in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit
Wonder if JWs are all reformed Catholics....? Used to be that RCCs were not to read the bible because it would be explained "correctly" in mass... I have Catholic family who never owned a bible.
Runningman
Active Member
That would be begging the question. You're beginning with a reference to baptism and concluding it means something not stated in the Scripture. Do you see where a perceived Triune Godhead is neither mentioned or explained in the verse you referenced? You're beginning with a theology and then adding verses to it. Begin with Scripture first.,
The Bible says that for the normal Christian the fullness of God is in them too (Ephesians 3:19) and that being one with God is not something unique to Jesus. (John 17:21, 1 Corinthians 6:7)
The Son being the image of the invisible God means that Jesus is a representation of God but not himself the invisible God. (Colossians 1:15, 1 Timothy 1:17) because we are made to be like God by conforming to the image of His Son. (Romans 8:29 ,Ephesians 4:24) While the normal Christian has to be like Jesus in so many ways it doesn't follow that Jesus is God or possesses something that others cannot.
That translation is debatable since it contains a contradiction in the version you provided. If no one has ever seen God then how do they see Jesus? The correct version of this will be provided here:
John 1
18No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.
The term Godhead literally means deity. It doesn't infer or imply a Trinity.
Runningman
Active Member
I am here to discuss Scripture with other people so that I can learn new things and hopefully others learn things too. There is value in that.
What you seem to be doing is using a stratagem in which you reference the same 5 or 6 verses repeatedly. We all have already read the verses you keep quoting. We all already know some disagree with each other about what they mean.
I am not even a JW either. You should tailor your replies so they are relevant to the topic and the person you are talking to. This is why it's important to actually discuss.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
There is no ‘godhead’ in Scripture. This is an error in translations with ‘James’ in the title and explains why more recent and better translations don’t have that word or concept.
Behold
Well-Known Member
I constantly refer to the Christian Bible that clearly teaches that Jesus is God the Creator. What's more important than Jesus?
ONLY God / Jesus is "the first and the last" in the Christian Bible! Jesus is God.
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
In addition...
2 Corinthians 3:17
ENCYCLOPEDIA OF THE BIBLE – GODHEAD
Godhead
GODHEAD. The term “Godhead” is a doublet of “Godhood” and is used to designate the state, dignity, condition or quality of a deity, or in Christian theology, of the self-revealed God. The terms occur as early as a.d. 1225, sometimes bearing the more explicit sense of the one divine essence in distinction from personal or hypostatic distinctions within God’s nature. Although encyclopedias a generation ago carried rather extensive essays under these headings (Bradley, A New English Dictionary on a Historical Basis), the terms have fallen into increasing disuse, though Godhead occurs more frequently than Godhood. B. B. Warfield noted that the disfavor of substantives ending in -head “has been followed by a fading consciousness...of the qualitative sense inherent in the suffix. The words accordingly show a tendency to become simple denotives” (“Godhead,” ISBE, II, 1268b). Most contemporary expositions simply use the term as a strong synonym for “God.” The Random House Dictionary of the English Language (1966) uses the capitalized “Godhead” for “the essential being of God; the supreme Being.” But Webster’s Unabridged now lists first the lower case “godhead” in the sense of deity or divine nature, and in secondary meanings curiously employs the capitalized form for “one of the Trinity” as well as for “the triune God” and “the Deity.” It is true that the term “Godhead” was used from the 16th cent. to designate the divine nature of Jesus Christ, as well as the essential nature of the triune God.
The word “Godhead” was used by KJV trs. to tr. three related Gr. words in three different passages; τὸ̀ θεῖον (Acts 17:29); θειότης, G2522, (Rom 1:20); θότητος (Col 2:9). The first word was in general Gr. use for “the divine,” which pagan religions saw in almost everything, and Paul employed it in addressing a heathen audience, but in a context that urges personal faith in the living God. The second word was used by non-Christians both of Artemis at Ephesus and also later of the imperial cult, and emphasized that quality that gives the divine, as deity, the right to man’s worship; Paul uses the term in association with the Creator’s power upon which all creatures are dependent. The third word, which emphasized deity at the highest possible level, is applied by Paul to the incarnate Logos: all the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Christ bodily.
The term “godhead” or “godhood” cannot be applied to the divine essence in distinction from the attributes, since the glory of God is precisely the totality of His attributes, and the attributes constitute His essence. God’s being is a living unity, in the sense that each attribute is identical with His essence; the attributes are human distinctions, but they have their basis in the divine nature, and are affirmed in view of God’s self-revelation. God is the infinite and eternal Spirit, the source, support, and end of all things. He is revealed in Scripture as Lord, Light and Love—the sovereign creator, preserver, and judge of the universe; the righteous source of moral and religious truth; and the Father of spirits, whose provision of redemption for sinners through the gift of His only Son is the supreme manifestation of agape.
The Biblical emphasis on divine immutability (Ps 33:11; Heb 1:12; James 1:17) has been under special attack in recent modern theology. It is now often argued by neo-Protestant writers that this insistence on the immutability of God is a by-product of speculative Gr. notions of God as a static being, whereas the God of the Bible allegedly is a God of “becoming” as well as of “being.” Adduced in support of this idea are the passages about God’s “repentance” or supposed change of mind, coupled with a process philosophy of creation (as by Samuel Alexander and A. N. Whitehead) as including growth in God’s experience through His relation to the world; sometimes the doctrine of the Trinity is similarly invoked, in view of the incarnation of the Logos and of the two natures of Christ.
The word “repent” is indeed used of Yahweh in numerous OT verses (1 Sam 15:35; Ps 106:45) but the sense is anthropomorphic, and hardly inconsistent with the overall emphasis on God’s changelessness (Num 23:19; 1 Sam 15:29; Ps 110:4) (A. Richardson, A Theological Word Book of the Bible [1950], 191). The tendency of modern evolutionary theory, moreover, has been to exaggerate the immanence of God and to modify His transcendence and independence of the universe (see God). The God of the Bible—of predestination, creation, calling, justification, reconciliation, and glorification—is assuredly not an isolated static being, but He is not on that account changeable and mutable. Expositions of the incarnation and atonement of the Logos promotive of the notion that the Godhead suffers, and correlating this denial of divine impassibility with doubts about divine immutability, are usually predicated on the prior abandonment of the Chalcedonian doctrine of two natures.
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Runningman
Active Member
This verse is often misunderstood, quoted and/or cited by someone as a proof that Jesus is equal to the Spirit, but what does the local and remote context say?
In 2 Corinthians 3, verse 3 refers to the "Spirit of the living God" therefore when the Spirit of the Lord is mentioned in verse 17, it's a reference to the Spirit introduced earlier in the chapter, the Spirit of the Living God, also known as the Father.
Is Jesus the Spirit of the Living God? According to Scripture, Jesus is not the Spirit of the Living God, but rather the Son of the Living God and that is the answer about who Jesus is as revealed by the Father in heaven.
Matthew 16
16And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
1 Thessalonians 1
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
Nope. Supposing so is an egregious abuse of language usage. Subjects of a sentence. Objects of a sentence. Not equal.
No rational person would take “I gave the book to him” to mean “I” and “him” are the same person.
Now, back to the question. What verse says what you claim?
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
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