A heretical teaching dismantled with the help of Paul the Evangelist.

[amigo de christo]

I am willing to bet that you and @David in NJ "know and understand" the bible in different ways. Translation: I bet you two disagree with each other on the interpretation of Scripture and what we have to do to be saved.

Soooo which one of you are being decieved in these final days? YOU? Or David in NJ?

With that said, I already know that you (or David in NJ) are going to respond with a rambling, non-sensical answer. But I look forward to it....

Wrong again . and i also do bible reads with others too . and we all are coming into simple agreement of the TRUTH .
NOW FLEE THE HARLOTS DEN . I say this not to be mean but out of great love and good desire
for your soul . SHE is a harlot of harlots and she is not alone . The harlot has infected most all of the protestant realm as well
as well as the kings of the earth . the presidents do her bidding , the churches in large do her bidding
the false religions have even come to rest under her shade . SHE IS A HARLOT and SHE has infected the world to unify as one .
I shun all her doctrine to hell if i could . Not the people under her spell , no i wish they would flee her .
BUT HER ALL INCLUSIVE HEALING THE WOUND FALSE LOVE UNIFYER of the religoins and world
I AM GONNA EXPOSE EVERY LAST WORD of her and her co workers who do her biding . COME YE OUT FROM AMONST
them , learn those bibles my friends . LEARN that doctrine well .

 

[Taken]

Legal Parents:
….Joseph and Mary; Nazarenes

First delivery of Mary, while a virgin:
…Jesus: Nazarene
….Born; Jerusalem, Judah (correction)
….Born: Bethlehem, Judah

Consummation of Marriage;
….After delivery of Jesus
….After lawful waiting period for the birth of a son.

Now, Mary was either Faithful and Obedient to God….OR she wasn’t!

Joseph: Head of Household.
Mary: Subject to her husband, to Multiply.

Children of Joseph & Mary:
Sons; James, Joseph, Simon, Judas & at least 2 daughters.

Fully (mans)Legal siblings of Jesus.
Fully (mans) Legal parents of Jesus.
None related to Jesus by BLOOD.

The Lords “brother”, was not James “the” Apostle.

James the Lords brother, saw Jesus after his resurrection, and became a believer and ministered in Jerusalem.

 

[Taken]

Shouldn't that be Bethlehem.

Yes ma’am. TY Corrected.

 

[face2face]

@Sigma did provide you an answer....You just chose to reject it because it doesn't match up with what your men have taught you.

No answers to date - a lot of copying and pasting guff - heaps of special pleading on Sigma's part - the only substance shown so far is the reference to Psalm 69 which is clearly Messianic. I dont know anyone who would challenge that understanding.

I am a foreigner to my own family, a stranger to my own mother’s children;

Luke 8 confirms both Jesus's position/experience within his his family and with his half brothers.

F2F

 

[face2face]

What does it matter?

Well, Truth matters to me and @Sigma
Just because it doesn't matter to YOU doesn't mean it doesn't matter to us!!


Soooo you believe that God WOULDN'T punish you for not speaking the truth??????

Curious Mary

That's the issue, you both are yet to explain what matters and why lol :cool:

 

[face2face]

Here is what this all comes down to F2F.............If you want to believe the false teachings of your Protestant men, I don't care. That is on you and not me.

If you want to look at Luke 8:19 (you have 8:9, I assume you mean 8:19) in a bubble and not square it with the rest of Scripture and the language it was written in compared to what it was translated from.......that's on you. Not me.

Looking at Peter in a bubble makes it clear to me that he was Satan (Matthew 16:23). Nothing you can say will change my mind. I mean after all, Jesus said he was.

Again, you and Sigma are yet to provide one spiritual insight into your teaching.

Not one Marymog - and how many pages in this thread has this request been made?

Yep!

 

[David in NJ]

Lol...Thats it? No scripture to back up your statement? I mean after all you say in the light of Scripture...but then don't give any Scripture to back up your statement.......weird. Or, you know I am right and you have nothing to say except that my statement is "ludicrouse" (but provide no evidence).

Show me this light of Scripture you are talking about.....otherwise, you are clearly in the dark.

The LIGHT of Scripture was shown you in Post #107

 

[Sigma]

The LIGHT of Scripture was shown you in Post #107

And, I refuted post #107 in post #112.

 

[Sigma]

That's the issue, you both are yet to explain what matters and why lol :cool:

I've provided evidence that proves Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were the sons of Jesus's mother's spouse's brother, Alphaeus, and his wife Mary of Alphaeus (Clopas/Cleophas), and thus Jesus's cousins, not His siblings. Again, that's important because it's the Truth. When is the Truth not important? I've asked you this multiple times and you have yet to answer.

Luke 8 confirms both Jesus's position/experience within his his family and with his half brothers.

In Matt. 12:46-47, Mk. 3:31-32, and Lk. 8:19-20, the Koine Greek word used is "ἀδελφοί" (sing. ἀδελφός adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi), translated to "brothers" in English, and it has multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman," "disciple/follower," "one of the same faith," and "a near kinsman, or relative," e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, or aunt, etc., and in the plural it regularly refers to men and women.

Therefore, if Jesus's brothers in Matt. 12:46-47, Mk. 3:31-32, and Lk. 8:19-20 were Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) from Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, whom you claim were His siblings, then you need to provide evidence that shows that type of kinship applies in Matt. 12:46-47, Mk. 3:31-32, and Lk. 8:19-20; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

However, I know you can't, because in my thread Were they Jesus's siblings?, I provided evidence that confirms they were brothers, as in "a near kinsman, or relative," and shows the type of kinship was cousins. And, in Matt. 12:46, Mk. 3:31, and Lk. 8:19, Jesus's brothers who arrived with His mother to speak with Him were two of His four cousins, Joseph and Simon of Alphaeus. (The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. II, ch. 268, pp. 430-436)

Gal 1:9 & Mark 6:3 is more than not considered to the the eldest after Jesus (by Joseph and Mary) —unfortuntely for you there is no hint anywhere in the NT that James and the others mentioned in Mark 6:3 were anything other than full brothers of Jesus.

You or I can twist it either way!

F2F

If they were Jesus's siblings, they wouldn't have been full siblings, but rather half-siblings, as they wouldn't have shared Joseph as a father. However, again, the flaw in your believing James of the four "siblings" of Jesus in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and apostle James in Gal. 1:19 were the same person is that the latter was one of the Twelve, which means that he could've only been either James of Zebedee or James of Alphaeus, and neither of them were a son of Joseph and Mary.

However, you are right that the James in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and apostle James in Gal. 1:19 were the same person. In my thread Were they Jesus's siblings?, I've provided evidence which confirms that, as well as evidence that shows he was the apostle James of Alphaeus, and that he and his three siblings were the sons of Jesus's mother's spouse's brother, Alphaeus, and his wife Mary of Cleophas (Clopas/Alphaeus), and thus were Jesus's cousins, not siblings.

There is no need, everyone in this forum knows Mary had other children...

Lol, "knows" while turning a blind eye to the fact that two of those "siblings" of Jesus were the apostles James and Judas of Alphaeus. Also, if you challenged someone to defend their claim, would you let anyone, especially a Catholic, get away with a lazy reply like the one you just gave?

 

[face2face]

I've provided evidence that proves Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were the sons of Jesus's mother's spouse's brother, Alphaeus, and his wife Mary of Alphaeus (Clopas/Cleophas), and thus Jesus's cousins, not His siblings. Again, that's important because it's the Truth. When is the Truth not important? I've asked you this multiple times and you have yet to answer.



In Matt. 12:46-47, Mk. 3:31-32, and Lk. 8:19-20, the Koine Greek word used is "ἀδελφοί" (sing. ἀδελφός adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi), translated to "brothers" in English, and it has multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman," "disciple/follower," "one of the same faith," and "a near kinsman, or relative," e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, or aunt, etc., and in the plural it regularly refers to men and women.

Therefore, if Jesus's brothers in Matt. 12:46-47, Mk. 3:31-32, and Lk. 8:19-20 were Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) from Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, whom you claim were His siblings, then you need to provide evidence that shows that type of kinship applies in Matt. 12:46-47, Mk. 3:31-32, and Lk. 8:19-20; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

However, I know you can't, because in my thread Were they Jesus's siblings?, I provided evidence that confirms they were brothers, as in "a near kinsman, or relative," and shows the type of kinship was cousins. And, in Matt. 12:46, Mk. 3:31, and Lk. 8:19, Jesus's brothers who arrived with His mother to speak with Him were two of His four cousins, Joseph and Simon of Alphaeus. (The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. II, ch. 268, pp. 430-436)



If they were Jesus's siblings, they wouldn't have been full siblings, but rather half-siblings, as they wouldn't have shared Joseph as a father. However, again, the flaw in your believing James of the four "siblings" of Jesus in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and apostle James in Gal. 1:19 were the same person is that the latter was one of the Twelve, which means that he could've only been either James of Zebedee or James of Alphaeus, and neither of them were a son of Joseph and Mary.

However, you are right that the James in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 and apostle James in Gal. 1:19 were the same person. In my thread Were they Jesus's siblings?, I've provided evidence which confirms that, as well as evidence that shows he was the apostle James of Alphaeus, and that he and his three siblings were the sons of Jesus's mother's spouse's brother, Alphaeus, and his wife Mary of Cleophas (Clopas/Alphaeus), and thus were Jesus's cousins, not siblings.



Lol, "knows" while turning a blind eye to the fact that two of those "siblings" of Jesus were the apostles James and Judas of Alphaeus. Also, if you challenged someone to defend their claim, would you let anyone, especially a Catholic, get away with a lazy reply like the one you just gave?

"Behold, I looked for wisdom and found none! I looked for understanding of Psalm 69:8 cmp Luke 8:19-20 and all I received was more copying and pasting! I asked for spiritual insight and I received empty words!

Where do we go for wisdom and where is the place of understanding?

To the desperation of a catholic mind?

F2F

 

[David in NJ]

And, I refuted post #107 in post #112.

No, you gave your opinion that cannot refute the Scriptural Truth.

 

[Sigma]

No, you gave your opinion that cannot refute the Scriptural Truth.

I'm the one who spoke the Truth, further confirmation of this is that you didn't even reply to what I said.

 

[Sigma]

all I received was more copying and pasting!

I'm repeating my own words because you keep ignoring them. Therefore, all I received from you was nothing in reply. Again.

 

[Taken]

Mark 6:
[3] Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

The Carpenter; Jesus
The legal son of Mary; Jesus
The legal brother of James; Jesus
The legal brother of Joses; Jesus
The legal brother of Juda; Jesus
The legal brother of Simon; Jesus

James, son of Joseph and Mary was a witness to Jesus’ resurrection and became a believer and thereafter a minister of Jesus’ Gospel IN Jerusalem.

 

[Sigma]

Mark 6:
[3] Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.

The Carpenter; Jesus
The legal son of Mary; Jesus
The legal brother of James; Jesus
The legal brother of Joses; Jesus
The legal brother of Juda; Jesus
The legal brother of Simon; Jesus

James, son of Joseph and Mary was a witness to Jesus’ resurrection and became a believer and thereafter a minister of Jesus’ Gospel IN Jerusalem.

In Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4, Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus), and the unnamed sisters aren't called the sons and daughters of Joseph and Mary, but rather the Koine Greek words used are "ἀδελφοί" (sing. ἀδελφός adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi), translated to "brothers" in English, and "ἀδελφοί" (sing. ἀδελφός adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi), translated to "sisters" in English. We agree the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" that they share applies in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4, but a kinsman/kinswoman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc.

Therefore, if Jesus, Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 were siblings, then you need to provide evidence that shows that type of kinship applies. However, I know you can't, because in my thread Were they Jesus's siblings?, I provided evidence that confirms they were brothers, as in "a near kinsman, or relative," and shows the type of kinship was cousins, and that James in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3;apostle James of Alphaeus; James the Less; James the Just; James the bishop of Jerusalem; James "the brother of the Lord;" and the author of the Epistle of James were the same person.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

NO ONE is being convinced of your propaganda on Mary & Joseph's family @Sigma .
By the same token you cannot be convinced of the propaganda, as wrong, you've been indoctrinated to believe, even when it goes against the plain written word of God.

 

[Sigma]

NO ONE is being convinced of your propaganda on Mary & Joseph's family @Sigma .

No one is accepting the Truth myself and others are speaking.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

No one is accepting the Truth myself and others are speaking.

But of course, this would be your reply !
John 17
Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Whom do your suppose Jesus is speaking about whose word is truth?

2 Corinthians 2:17
For we are not as many, which corrupt the word of God: but as of sincerity, but as of God, in the sight of God speak we in Christ.

Romans 3:4
God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written,....

 

[Sigma]

But of course, this would be your reply!

Well yeah.

 

[Taken]

In Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4, Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus), and the unnamed sisters aren't called the sons and daughters of Joseph and Mary, but rather the Koine Greek words used are "ἀδελφοί" (sing. ἀδελφός adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi), translated to "brothers" in English, and "ἀδελφοί" (sing. ἀδελφός adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi), translated to "sisters" in English. We agree the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" that they share applies in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4, but a kinsman/kinswoman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc.

Therefore, if Jesus, Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 were siblings, then you need to provide evidence that shows that type of kinship applies. However, I know you can't, because in my thread Were they Jesus's siblings?, I provided evidence that confirms they were brothers, as in "a near kinsman, or relative," and shows the type of kinship was cousins, and that James in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3;apostle James of Alphaeus; James the Less; James the Just; James the bishop of Jerusalem; James "the brother of the Lord;" and the author of the Epistle of James were the same person.

#1. James of Zebedee was one of the 12 Apostles. James the Greater. Sibling of Apostle John. Together called Sons of Thunder.
Believed in Jesus, and
Believed Jesus was the Son of God, and
Believed Jesus was the Christ…
BEFORE Jesus was Crucified.

#2 James the Less was young (likely the youngest of the 12).
Believed in Jesus, and
Believed Jesus was the Son of God, and
Believed Jesus was the Christ…
BEFORE Jesus was Crucified.

#3 James the Just was Joseph and Mary’s son, legal brother of Jesus, who did not believe (John 7:2-5) and again, they OUTSIDE (Matt 12:46-50) when Jesus was Preaching to a crowd.
James did not Believe until Jesus was resurrected.
And BTW Jesus first showed himself to James (his brother) then to ALL the Apostles
(1 Cor 15:7)
James the Just, brother of Jesus, ministered in Jerusalem, and was author of the Book of James, which moreso speaks of Ethics rather than as one of the chosen 12 who greatly in depth taught the Word of God.

Mary’s other children.
A bit of detail of Mary’s first born son.

Luke 2:
[7] And she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger; because there was no room for them in the inn.

Why no in depth scripture about her second born son, or her third, or her forth?

Revealing their names was sufficient. They are not the highlight of the New Testament.

Knowing a guy, (Hegesippus who said James and Jesus were cousins), who knew a guy, who knew a guy, who knew the pope, according to “lost” papers, but the tradition lives on in Catholic Doctrine…:rollleyes:

Nothing to consider. No way to verify.