7 Churches as Personality Types

[David Boyer]

Right... changing modes

What mode are you in now? And why was that worthy of comment?

A meerkat hides from the Lion and warns others to run from the Lion. Why would that be your signature as a Christian?

 

[FHII]

Really... I don't agree with the church age doctrine. It only works if you exclude wide swaths of churches and only focus on western churches. If you have a large enough shoehorn anything can fit.

Well that makes no sense at all. You have provided an analysis with reasons but without critique. Lots of flowering words that really have no substance.

For example, you said it only works if I exclude a wide swath of churches. Well... so what? Were there only 7 Churches in Asia (Turkey)? Does John's vision exclude other churches? How many churches have there been since 97 AD? There are 500 in my county alone today.

You also said it focuses only on the Western Churches. Well, so what? Is the something the Church of Japan has to offer? Or the Church of China or India? Yes, they have testimonies and are powerful.

But all the Churches mentioned were middle eastern, not western. All but two were likened to either middle eastern or European Churh movements, not western.

But you haven't done the homework. I'm not looking for an empty mind but an open one. You say your mind is not open, so I guess not much I can do or say to you, and that makes me sad for you.

I have not done my homework? Smile. I amsmiling the same way as Albert Einstein would if he were told he didn't understand physics or Robin Williams would if he were told he didn't know how to tell a joke.

No,I don't have an open mind, but it is not empty either. I am not alone. There are many in the Bible who were not reeds shaking in the wind and being tossed to and from with every wind of doctrine.

You intrigued me at first, but not now.

I know who you are.

 

[marksman]

A theological issue? I doubt it. More like an issues invented to produce irrelevant discussion.

 

[David Boyer]

A theological issue? I doubt it. More like an issues invented to produce irrelevant discussion.

Theological issues should be defined by God not man. So if it is important to God it should be high on our radar, correct?
As per what would rank in a hierarchy of theological texts should be based on the weight God gives to the text.

New Testament
Gospels and Acts: Unauthorized Biographies
Romans to Jude: Letters
Revelation: Only book Commanded by God to be written with every word or image coming at the command of God, with a curse not to add or remove words from the text.

So in order of theological importance.... Revelation, Gospels, Acts, Letters.

 

[David Boyer]

Well that makes no sense at all. You have provided an analysis with reasons but without critique. Lots of flowering words that really have no substance.

For example, you said it only works if I exclude a wide swath of churches. Well... so what? Were there only 7 Churches in Asia (Turkey)? Does John's vision exclude other churches? How many churches have there been since 97 AD? There are 500 in my county alone today.

You also said it focuses only on the Western Churches. Well, so what? Is the something the Church of Japan has to offer? Or the Church of China or India? Yes, they have testimonies and are powerful.

But all the Churches mentioned were middle eastern, not western. All but two were likened to either middle eastern or European Churh movements, not western.


I have not done my homework? Smile. I amsmiling the same way as Albert Einstein would if he were told he didn't understand physics or Robin Williams would if he were told he didn't know how to tell a joke.

No,I don't have an open mind, but it is not empty either. I am not alone. There are many in the Bible who were not reeds shaking in the wind and being tossed to and from with every wind of doctrine.

You intrigued me at first, but not now.

I know who you are.

Yes I believe Einstein is also wrong. Albert would reread the textbooks if he was shown that there were better explanations for his observations. And Williams kept learning new aspects of his craft all the time.(and many of his "jokes" were failures)
So you haven't done the homework. And a closed mind. I don't ask you to believe this doctrine without testing it. The homework is the test.
So you are sticking to dogma without seeing the light of new revelation. Kind of like some pharisees and sadducees back in the day.

About the churches as church ages. You missed the part about church ages in your rant. The church age parallel only runs with the western church. As I see it. Is the underground church in China the lukewarm church? But we are in the lukewarm church age.

If you exclude over 50% of something from your calculations can you say that any pattern you find holds true for all? So not all swaths of churches follow the church age pattern... that would mean that the pattern fails.

 

[FHII]

Yes I believe Einstein is also wrong. Albert would reread the textbooks if he was shown that there were better explanations for his observations. And Williams kept learning new aspects of his craft all the time.(and many of his "jokes" were failures)
So you haven't done the homework. And a closed mind. I don't ask you to believe this doctrine without testing it. The homework is the test.
So you are sticking to dogma without seeing the light of new revelation. Kind of like some pharisees and sadducees back in the day.

About the churches as church ages. You missed the part about church ages in your rant. The church age parallel only runs with the western church. As I see it. Is the underground church in China the lukewarm church? But we are in the lukewarm church age.

If you exclude over 50% of something from your calculations can you say that any pattern you find holds true for all? So not all swaths of churches follow the church age pattern... that would mean that the pattern fails.

There are some very interesting things going on here. First, I have not disagreed with your theory, which should be the dominate topic of the post. The next thing is that you seem to have a desire to tear down the Church Ages theory, though you seemed to initially like the article I sent.

Next, you seem determined to down play Western Churches and exhort Eastern Churches. It's actually pretty funny how short sighted this is. But, I won't explain that... I don't think your mind is opened enough to accept it.

But speaking of that, while you show no interest in discussing your theory (which I would enjoy), and a bigger interest of destroying the Church Age theory (which even by your own words you can't and don't even realize it); your biggest problem seems to be with me saying I don't have an open mind.

Your priorities are not on your revelation (which by the way, is not new...), bUT on tearing down other stuff... it tells me who you are.

 

[David Boyer]

There are some very interesting things going on here. First, I have not disagreed with your theory, which should be the dominate topic of the post. The next thing is that you seem to have a desire to tear down the Church Ages theory, though you seemed to initially like the article I sent.

Next, you seem determined to down play Western Churches and exhort Eastern Churches. It's actually pretty funny how short sighted this is. But, I won't explain that... I don't think your mind is opened enough to accept it.

But speaking of that, while you show no interest in discussing your theory (which I would enjoy), and a bigger interest of destroying the Church Age theory (which even by your own words you can't and don't even realize it); your biggest problem seems to be with me saying I don't have an open mind.

Your priorities are not on your revelation (which by the way, is not new...), bUT on tearing down other stuff... it tells me who you are.

The article you linked had the personality type theory included. So it was interesting.

I am not trying to tear down the church age theory, merely point out that with a large shoehorn and a hammer you can make the church age theory work if you only focus on western church history.

I am not praising eastern churches, I don't know much about them. Not interested as I am Canadian (as the beer commercial says).

Ask any questions you want about the personality theory you have. I would love to discuss it. I didn't really think it was a new revelation... just new to me.

The church age theory is so ingrained in eschatology, but I don't see it reflected in the text or nature of the letter of Revelation. Everyone likes to point out that there are seven letters to seven churches, but I see it as one letter (with 7 recipients), dictated by Jesus (and visions). The only book in the NT that is commanded by Jesus to be written. I find Revelation to be a singularly unique book in the NT. I find the church age idea cheapens the entire book of Revelation to a simple history lesson.

On a personal note... I don't cry often. During my 30 years of marriage I have only cried a handful of times. Even the death of my parents did not invoke a tear. But every time I read about the church in Revelation that I believe applies to me I can't get through a sentence without choking up and tears flow from my eyes. Not in sadness but in joy, thankfulness, and the sheer beauty of it. If I have that sort of reaction... then who else needs to hear the same revelation from Revelation?

Sorry if there was a misunderstanding of my intentions. I get a bit hot under the collar some times and my humour is of the sarcastic variety.

 

[marksman]

Theological issues should be defined by God not man. So if it is important to God it should be high on our radar, correct?
As per what would rank in a hierarchy of theological texts should be based on the weight God gives to the text.

New Testament
Gospels and Acts: Unauthorized Biographies
Romans to Jude: Letters
Revelation: Only book Commanded by God to be written with every word or image coming at the command of God, with a curse not to add or remove words from the text.

So in order of theological importance.... Revelation, Gospels, Acts, Letters.

Yeah, so what?

 

[Enoch111]

Has anyone ever given thought to the 7 Churches in Rev 2+3 as advise to 7 different personality types that will be present in the Tribulational period?

Now that is really s-t-r-e-t-c-h-i-n-g it. But so what? One's imagination needs to run riot once in a while. There are supposedly 16 personality types.

 

[Davy]

Has anyone ever given thought to the 7 Churches in Rev 2+3 as advise to 7 different personality types that will be present in the Tribulational period?

7 different sets of advise and rewards to different types of Christians that need that extra encouragement or advise to get through. Each grouping is identified as a Church belonging to God's body, but many need correction before the end while others need encouragement to endure.

Not all persons feel the same in their faith and I see many God fearing Believers who fit the description of one or more of the Churches in Rev 2+3. Myself included.

Maybe take another read with this thought in mind. If you are honest about your faith journey, you will do this little bit of homework before answering. Keep an open mind to this idea and honestly ask yourself if you fit into one of these Churches before answering.

Not just for the tribulation period, but throughout Church history beginning with those literal 7 Churches in Asia Minor.

Each Message is to be used as contrast to the Church one is in today.

Jesus had no rebuke for only 2 Churches. Those 2 Messages thus are blueprints for His very elect.

 

[BeyondET]

Hmm interesting topic personalities what is it, I've read some say there is 4, 5, 16 probably more I didn't read anymore. Are the ideas about personalities just a way to separate people sort of, or place distant between people, what is a entj rare personality who knows it all sounds a bit to detailed imo...

 

[David Boyer]

Hmm interesting topic personalities what is it, I've read some say there is 4, 5, 16 probably more I didn't read anymore. Are the ideas about personalities just a way to separate people sort of, or place distant between people, what is a entj rare personality who knows it all sounds a bit to detailed imo...

Rather than personality types lets say types of personalities.
I use the wording of "Church". ie what church do you recognize yourself as?
But so many people would interpret that as Denomination, or physical structure, or geographical area. (Catholic, On main street, North American, etc)
Try reading the churches with that in mind. Does one speak to you as an admonition or as an encouragement?
I'm just asking if you could read 2 chapters with that particular view in mind. THEN tell me I am right, wrong, a heretic. But please read it.

 

[David Boyer]

Not just for the tribulation period, but throughout Church history beginning with those literal 7 Churches in Asia Minor.

Each Message is to be used as contrast to the Church one is in today.

Jesus had no rebuke for only 2 Churches. Those 2 Messages thus are blueprints for His very elect.

Contrast to "the Church one is in today" is that referring to a denomination or local congregation? If that is your meaning then fine. So stay where you are and endure so you get the rewards promised. How do the rewards work if it is a local congregation? Which church is the Catholic, Anglican, Baptist, Mennonite? So a Catholic can't receive the reward promised to a different church? What if that other reward is what their heart truly desires(in all righteousness), but there is no Pentecostal church in their area?

Two churches without rebuke.... yeah maybe.
You mean Smyrna, which is to suffer, imprisoned, and die after 10 days. Not a rebuke, but scant comfort. A blueprint... if you are not suffering, imprisoned, or live more than 10 days you are out of the will of God? Sounds like a nasty pattern Jesus has set for that church. (Rev 2:8-11)

How about Philadelphia... The week church. They have little strength and need to be told that the door is open, and they need the encouragement that the door will not be shut. Small faith, but enduring faith. Mustard seed faith because all they have done is kept His word and not denied His name. Only two actions that are the very least that a disciple would do. No great works. No great preaching. Just enduring. And the reward is to be removed before trial. Not raptured, but the more pedestrian way to the other side, death. And the blueprint... just hold on a little longer so someone doesn't steal your reward. Hang on by your fingernails if you have to but endure.

My wife and I differ in the Rev Churches we "identify"/belong to. We both have reasons why we are encouraged. I encourage you to read the churches with a mind to which one you identify with. Does the admonishment cut your heart? Does the reward stir you to joy? It's just 2 chapters, please give it a read with the idea that it is personal in mind.

 

[David Boyer]

Now that is really s-t-r-e-t-c-h-i-n-g it. But so what? One's imagination needs to run riot once in a while. There are supposedly 16 personality types.

So not personality types, but types of personalities.
Read posts #32 + #33 for my insights.
Please just read Rev 2+3 with an eye to if you fit in one of those categories more than another. It is possible that there is some personal advise written for you by Jesus. Do you want to take the chance you miss it? And tomorrow you can block me and go back to your own interpretation. But please give it a read as if Jesus wrote something specifically for you and your good.

 

[marks]

Has anyone ever given thought to the 7 Churches in Rev 2+3 as advise to 7 different personality types that will be present in the Tribulational period?

7 different sets of advise and rewards to different types of Christians that need that extra encouragement or advise to get through. Each grouping is identified as a Church belonging to God's body, but many need correction before the end while others need encouragement to endure.

Not all persons feel the same in their faith and I see many God fearing Believers who fit the description of one or more of the Churches in Rev 2+3. Myself included.

Maybe take another read with this thought in mind. If you are honest about your faith journey, you will do this little bit of homework before answering. Keep an open mind to this idea and honestly ask yourself if you fit into one of these Churches before answering.

I've seen this, 7 letters that address 7 sorts of Christians. Also, 7 types of churches. Also, the "life-cycle" of many churches. Also, the life cycle of "Christendom". These also address 7 reasons people avoid churches. The historical movement of Christianity in a particular region. I've found the more you look, the more you find in these letters.

First things first . . . the church that lost it's first love. If we continue in His love, all else will follow. But when we get distracted by what we are doing, and stop keeping God's love, for us, and to share with others, as the true center, then we get unbalanced, and stumble, and fall.

If we find we've left our first love, how do we return?

Much love!

 

[marks]

Which church resonates with you?

How do you answer?

Much love!

 

[marks]

All roads lead to the lighthouse?

That's not what was written, you should be more careful.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Theological issues should be defined by God not man. So if it is important to God it should be high on our radar, correct?
As per what would rank in a hierarchy of theological texts should be based on the weight God gives to the text.

New Testament
Gospels and Acts: Unauthorized Biographies
Romans to Jude: Letters
Revelation: Only book Commanded by God to be written with every word or image coming at the command of God, with a curse not to add or remove words from the text.

So in order of theological importance.... Revelation, Gospels, Acts, Letters.

This is a POV I've never heard before. Hardly one I can agree with. All Scripture is God-breathed. Make no mistake!

Much love!

 

[David Boyer]

I've seen this, 7 letters that address 7 sorts of Christians. Also, 7 types of churches. Also, the "life-cycle" of many churches. Also, the life cycle of "Christendom". These also address 7 reasons people avoid churches. The historical movement of Christianity in a particular region. I've found the more you look, the more you find in these letters.

First things first . . . the church that lost it's first love. If we continue in His love, all else will follow. But when we get distracted by what we are doing, and stop keeping God's love, for us, and to share with others, as the true center, then we get unbalanced, and stumble, and fall.

If we find we've left our first love, how do we return?

Much love!

Simply go back.

 

[David Boyer]

How do you answer?

Much love!

Philadelphia