2 Powers in Heaven

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Lizbeth

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So that verse was recorded and known well before the 16th century, long before Erasmus. And the numbers are compelling!

Doesn't seem to contradict other scriptures either:

Jhn 8:14

Jesus answered and said unto them, Though I bear record G3140 of myself, yet my record is true: for I know whence I came, and whither I go; but ye cannot tell whence I come, and whither I go.

Jhn 8:18

I am one that bear witness G3140 of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness G3140 of me.

Jhn 15:26

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify G3140 of me:

Act 15:8

And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, G3140 giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

Heb 10:15

Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness G3140 to us: for after that he had said before,

1Jo 5:6

This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, G3140 because the Spirit is truth.
 
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Johann

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So that verse was recorded and known well before the 16th century, long before Erasmus. And the numbers are compelling!

So that verse was recorded and known well before the 16th century, long before Erasmus. And the numbers are compelling!
Absolutely spot on! In the 4th Century BEFORE Erasmus sister.

The Johannine Comma was indeed known and recorded well before the 16th century, long before Erasmus. Its presence in the Latin tradition can be traced back to at least the 4th century, and it became more widespread in the Middle Ages. However, its inclusion in the biblical text was primarily within the Latin Vulgate tradition and was not found in the earliest Greek manuscripts. By the time of Erasmus, the Comma had been well established in the Latin Church, leading to its inclusion in the Textus Receptus and later translations like the KJV.

Here is a rebuttal FOR the inclusion of the comma @Lizbeth.

The Johannine Comma - Part 1 - Cyprian--you can peruse as I peruse for verifiable factual information.

God bless you and family.
Johann.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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In this episode we investigate what was a legitimate, if controversial, teaching (mishnah) held by some rabbis before the coming of Christ. Also covered is how the "the 2 Powers of Heaven" controversy was relegated to the level of heresy in the 2nd century by various Jewish councils based on the coming of Jesus Christ and the danger that this new faith posed to traditional Judaism.

Interesting. Right or wrong this is how my mind works. I think there is something to “two powers in heaven”

But this is where my head goes…in Romans 7 as long as her husband lives she is bound to the law of Jealousies of her husband so that if she marries another, she will be called an adulterous Woman. But if her husband be dead—likewise you have become dead to the law of her husband, by the body of Jesus Christ—to bear fruit unto God. To be called no adulterous woman but “clean”. —clearly there is two powers here of sin unto death(an adulterous Woman)and obedience unto righteousness. (Bearing fruit unto God.) who is this power of “her husband” she is made free from by the body of Christ? Why is it necessary to be made free from her husband by the death of Jesus Christ to bear fruit unto God?

Was the Law evil then? Where what was “ordained unto Life” “I found to be “unto death”? No. If it wasn’t for the Law “I would not have known” “you shall not kill”. The law was the teacher to bring us to the Father?

That which had glory (power) had no Glory(Power) in retrospect of that which excels in Glory(Power).
If the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more does the ministration of Righteousness excel in Glory.

by the Power of God on the left hand and on the right hand. As poor but making many rich. As deceivers, yet true. As dead, and, behold we Live. As possessing nothing but possessing all things.

On their part God is spoken evil of.
On your part He is glorified.

Point is I do think there is something to “two powers in heaven” —I haven’t made it all the way through the video. But where the lord spoke to his lord and called down fire to destroy them, or rain down condemnation upon their heads —New Testament Jesus rebukes the disciples telling them you know not what spirit you are of. The son of man come not to destroy lives but to save them.

The two powers …do we not see this in the Old Testament and the New Testament? Again…what power of her husband did she need to be made free from, that power of her husband so strong that it will take “by the body of Jesus Christ” to set those captives free (from the power of death?) to bring forth Fruit (the power of Life) unto God.
 
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Johann

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Absolutely spot on! In the 4th Century BEFORE Erasmus sister.

The Johannine Comma was indeed known and recorded well before the 16th century, long before Erasmus. Its presence in the Latin tradition can be traced back to at least the 4th century, and it became more widespread in the Middle Ages. However, its inclusion in the biblical text was primarily within the Latin Vulgate tradition and was not found in the earliest Greek manuscripts. By the time of Erasmus, the Comma had been well established in the Latin Church, leading to its inclusion in the Textus Receptus and later translations like the KJV.

Here is a rebuttal FOR the inclusion of the comma @Lizbeth.

The Johannine Comma - Part 1 - Cyprian--you can peruse as I peruse for verifiable factual information.

God bless you and family.
Johann.
1 John 5:7 Vincent's Word Studies
Vincent's Word Studies

There are three that bear record ( τρεῖς εἰσιν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες ).

Lit., three are the witnessing ones.

The Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, and these three are one.

These words are rejected by the general verdict of critical authorities. For the details of the memorable controversy on the passage, the student may consult Frederick Henry Scrivener, “Introduction to the Criticism of the New Testament;” Samuel P. Tregelles, “An Account of the Printed Text of the Greek New Testament;” John Selby Watson, “The Life of Richard Porson, M.A.;” Professor Ezra Abbot, “Orme's Memoir of the Controversy on 1 John 5:7;” Charles Foster, “A New Plea for the Authenticity of the Text of the Three Heavenly Witnesses,” or “Porson's Letters to Travis Eclectically Examined,” Cambridge, 1867. On the last-named work, Scrivener remarks, “I would fain call it a success if I could with truth. To rebut much of Porson's insolent sophistry was easy, to maintain the genuineness of this passage is simply impossible.” Tregelles gives a list of more than fifty volumes, pamphlets, or critical notices on this question. Porson, in the conclusion of his letters to Travis, says: “In short, if this verse be really genuine, notwithstanding its absence from all the visible Greek manuscripts except two (that of Dublin and the forged one found at Berlin), one of which awkwardly translates the verse from the Latin, and the other transcribes it from a printed book; notwithstanding its absence from all the versions except the Vulgate, even from many of the best and oldest manuscripts of the Vulgate; notwithstanding the deep and dead silence of all the Greek writers down to the thirteenth, and of most of the Latins down to the middle of the eighth century; if, in spite of all these objections, it be still genuine, no part of Scripture whatsoever can be proved either spurious or genuine; and Satan has been permitted for many centuries miraculously to banish the 'finest passage in the New Testament,' as Martin calls it, from the eyes and memories of almost all the Christian authors, translators, and transcribers.”

Bibliography Vincent, Marvin R. DD. "Commentary on 1 John 5:7". "Vincent's Word Studies in the New Testament". Charles Schribner's Sons. New York, USA. 1887.
 

Lizbeth

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In this episode we investigate what was a legitimate, if controversial, teaching (mishnah) held by some rabbis before the coming of Christ. Also covered is how the "the 2 Powers of Heaven" controversy was relegated to the level of heresy in the 2nd century by various Jewish councils based on the coming of Jesus Christ and the danger that this new faith posed to traditional Judaism.

I think we need to be careful of what unbelieving Jews think/thought or teach/taught. All due love and respect to the Jewish people, but most of them are and were unable to perceive and grasp spiritual truths of scripture, except for a remnant.....those saints who had a living relationship with the Lord through faith and by His Spirit.

Truths of scripture should not be difficult or dry and complicated to show. It's not surprising at all that the Son of God is seen in OT scriptures. But it comes to mind that the Holy Spirit is very much seen there too.