10 Questions about Eternal Security

[Jack]

People who believe in having received Eternal Salvation, ARE individuals like any one else who shares a basic core belief…
they discuss, they have different depths of learning and study and ideas of HOW and WHY they have PERSONALLY landed on that belief.

What’s the point of ANY two persons have a conversation or sharing WHY they share the SAME belief with an OTHER, yet having ARRIVED at their Belief through different avenues?

Person (A) can state their belief….and expound they believe “whatever”, BECAUSE…
Daddy believed that, Mommy believed that, a teacher said it was so, a preacher said it was so, their friend said, their spouse said….
WHILE:
Person (B) can state their belief, similar to Person (A), but Believe it because the Word of God says it is so.

Point being, People can have the SAME beliefs for DIFFERENT reasonings.
Discussing, Revealing their reasonings amongst themselves…

BOTHERS YOU WHY?
It has nothing to do with you.

What "bothers" me is that people who think they can't lose their salvation can commit any sin and still be saved, they think. And end up in Hell.

 

[Taken]

What "bothers" me is that people who think they can't lose their salvation can commit any sin and still be saved, they think. And end up in Hell.

Well, I do believe in Once a person is Sanctified, it is Forever, Yet I do not believe a sanctified person CAN or DOES commit SIN.

And THAT belief requires a whole other conversation ABOUT “SIN”, to begin to comprehend that Understanding.

 

[Jack]

Well, I do believe in Once a person is Sanctified, it is Forever, Yet I do not believe a sanctified person CAN or DOES commit SIN.

And THAT belief requires a whole other conversation ABOUT “SIN”, to begin to comprehend that Understanding.

You've never sinned since you were saved?

 

[Webers_Home]

~
● John 5:24 . . I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word, and believes
Him, who sent me, has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has
crossed over from death to life.

Note the grammatical tense of John 6:54; it's present tense rather than
future; indicating that when people accept Jesus' teachings, and believe in
the one who sent him, they have eternal life now, today-- no delay and no
waiting period.

This is a very crucial element of the faith because according to God's
testimony, as an expert witness in all things pertaining to Christianity,
people lacking eternal life are lacking unity with His son, i.e. they are quite
literally christless Christians.

● 1John 5:9-13 . .We accept human testimony, but God's testimony carries
more weight because it is the testimony of God, which He has given about
His son. . . . And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and
this life is in His son. Whoever has the Son has the life; whoever who does
not have the life, does not have God's son.

Now; the obvious advantage of eternal life is immunity from prosecution, i.e
Christians who have it are no longer in grave danger of humanity's worst
nightmare, whereas christless Christians are on track to face justice in the
lake of fire per Rev 20:11-15 wherein they will be terminated by a mode of
death akin to a foundry worker falling into a kettle of molten iron.
_

 

[Taken]

You've never sinned since you were saved?

I can answer the question in 4 words, but it would be fruitless, because we have not had a conversation about ‘sin’.

 

[ScottA]

The NT isn't for us?

The new testament applies to all who are born. But it only applies where and when rightly divided/handled.

Example: Are you a leper or a Pharisee? Probably not...so those parts do not apply to you. Likewise some things specifically apply to Israel and not to the gentiles, to the saved and not the unsaved, to the dead and not the living, and vice versa.

 

[ScottA]

You've never sinned since you were saved?

If I may...

Since we must be born again of the spirit of God, meaning born two different times each a different body...which are you referring to? Because the body of flesh, though it may be brought under subordination of the spirit, is born of sinful flesh of the same "kind" as Eve through her fallen genealogy, which is prone to sin until physical death. On the other hand, if you mean that body born of the spirit of God--does God sin? No, nor does that spiritual body born of His perfect spiritual linage.

 

[Jack]

The new testament applies to all who are born. But it only applies where and when rightly divided/handled.

Example: Are you a leper or a Pharisee? Probably not...so those parts do not apply to you. Likewise some things specifically apply to Israel and not to the gentiles, to the saved and not the unsaved, to the dead and not the living, and vice versa.

So the MANY warnings in the NT are not for Christians? Really?

 

[Jack]

If I may...

Since we must be born again of the spirit of God, meaning born two different times each a different body...which are you referring to? Because the body of flesh, though it may be brought under subordination of the spirit, is born of sinful flesh of the same "kind" as Eve through her fallen genealogy, which is prone to sin until physical death. On the other hand, if you mean that body born of the spirit of God--does God sin? No, nor does that spiritual body born of His perfect spiritual linage.

I was referring to his comment, "I do not believe a sanctified person CAN or DOES commit SIN".

 

[ScottA]

So the MANY warnings in the NT are not for Christians? Really?

"Christians" has many meanings. By definition, it means a follower of Christ--not necessarily one who is already One with Christ and therefore saved.

If you would have asked if the many warnings in the NT are not for the "saved?", then the answer is yes. Really. "For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for it with perseverance." Romans 8:24-26 This is the difference between the saved and the unsaved, and the answer regarding salvation being the end of waiting--that end to which we must endure, at which time "it is finished." No more waiting, no more perseverance, and no more enduring to the end--because it has already come and therefore is no longer hoped for.

 

[ScottA]

I was referring to his comment, "I do not believe a sanctified person CAN or DOES commit SIN".

In which case he may be saved or not--God knows. But so do the saved also know they are saved, for having heard His knock and opened the door to Him they know they share what remains of their former flesh body with Christ who is inescapably within them until the passing of the flesh.

 

[Zao is life]

Demas turned away from the Faith.
He's in heaven now.

Let me show you something..

You can turn away from your parents, for the rest of your life., and you'll still be their son/daughter, forever.
Why?
Because you were BORN of them..... So, you can't stop being their Son/Daughter...., but you can turn away from them, forever.

And that is the same with CHRISTianity.

See, once a person is BORN Again Spiritually, by Father God, then that is a BIRTH, and you can't stop being "born again"..
You can fall away later.
You can turn away.
You can run away..

But what can't be done, is to be "un-born again". As this spiritual new birth is God caused... and its like being born of your mother.
You dont control that...

Now, the pride filled, who dont understand salvation, and dont actually understand anything about being born again,... like to rant and rave about "losing it".
These baby believers, or religious but lost, obsess on "OSAS"..

So...This is the most common aspect of a baby christian, as all the "beginners level" "diaper babies" who live as Hebrews 6:1, all talk about their works, their commandment keeping, their water baptism, and how they can lose their salvation.
Some of them, mature, and once that happens, they would never be found again in public teaching such anti-Cross theology.

"The Word was in the beginning with God. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men." -- John 1:2 & 4.

"He (Christ) alone possesses immortality and lives in unapproachable light, whom no human has ever seen or is able to see. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen. --- 1 Timothy 6:15-16.

"For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have life within Himself" -- John 5:26.

Eternal life is not in ourselves (creature). It's in Christ (our Creator). Adam did not abide in the Word in whom is life (John 1:2 & 4), which says: ".. in the day that you eat of it, dying you shall die" (Genesis 2:17).

When Adam believed the word that said instead, "You shall not surely die" (Genesis 3:4) - which implied that Adam's eternal life | immortality was in himself - he died spiritually. He was cut off from the life of God.

"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6-7a).

The first lie was "You will not surely die". It's still the same lie.

Insult away as you have done in your post above with respect to those who believe the Word of God that says "..you will surely die" and continue to insist that those who do not abide in Christ, who alone is immortal, in whom alone is eternal life, follow you in your belief of the word that says, "You will not sure die". Your insults of people who believe the Word of God don't make your own word "the truth", and God's Word a lie.​

 

[Ritajanice]

"The Word was in the beginning with God. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men." -- John 1:2 & 4.

"He (Christ) alone possesses immortality and lives in unapproachable light, whom no human has ever seen or is able to see. To him be honor and eternal power! Amen. --- 1 Timothy 6:15-16.

"For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have life within Himself" -- John 5:26.

Eternal life is not in ourselves (creature). It's in Christ (our Creator). Adam did not abide in the Word in whom is life (John 1:2 & 4), which says: ".. in the day that you eat of it, dying you shall die" (Genesis 2:17).

When Adam believed the word that said instead, "You shall not surely die" (Genesis 3:4) - which implied that Adam's eternal life | immortality was in himself - he died spiritually. He was cut off from the life of God.

"If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered. And they gather and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (John 15:6-7a).

The first lie was "You will not surely die". It's still the same lie.

Insult away as you have done in your post above with respect to those who believe the Word of God that says "..you will surely die" and continue to insist that those who do not abide in Christ, who alone is immortal, in whom alone is eternal life, follow you in your belief of the word that says, "You will not sure die". Your insults of people who believe the Word of God don't make your own word the truth, and God's Word a lie.​

Eternal life comes from God, via the Holy Spirit...when he gives us the Spiritual rebirth?....Spirit gives birth to spirit?....

How does God do that?

Becoming Born Again..by God...not by “ YOU” is a “ Living “ Birth....

Which means what exactly?

Without being Born of God, how can you understand scripture ?

We have received that new heart and Spirit within?

When we are supernaturally birthed....by God, via the Holy Spirit?

If one hasn’t been birthed in the Spirit...how could they possibly understand the Living word of God, when he testifies with our spirit that we are his children?

Therefore those who don’t understand Born Again..which is the Living word of God....they need to check to see if they are in the faith.

We shouldn’t be judging the heart of anyone....but, we must be Born Again to see the Kingdom of God...once we receive the new heart and Spirit within....

You can see through the eyes of the Spirit...were In God’s Kingdom...when he births us in the Spirit.

All according to his purpose and plan for our lives.

A Born Again....” GLORIFIES GOD”......what do you think the rebirth is all about?

Intellectual knowledge?

 

[Zao is life]

Therefore those who don’t understand Born Again..which is the Living word of God....they need to check to see if they are in the faith.

Therefore you need to check to see if you're in the faith. Intellectual faith is not of God as you say, any more than your insults and false accusations and implications/insinuations regarding another's salvation are the fruit of the Spirit, which fruit would be THE sign that you are born again.

 

[Webers_Home]

~
FAQ: Was it really necessary to restore Jesus' crucified dead body to life?
Why couldn't it remain deceased and him taken Heaven in spirit form?

REPLY: Jesus' crucifixion was an adequate atonement for people's sins in
accord with Isa 53:6 & 1John 2:22, but by itself wasn't enough for them to
obtain exoneration.

● Rom 4:25 . . He was delivered over to death for our sins, and was restored
to life for our justification.

The Greek word translated "justification" is dikaiosis (dik-ah'-yo-sis) which
means acquittal; defined as an adjudication of innocence due to the absence
of sufficient evidence to convict.

People merely forgiven still carry a load of guilt; viz: they have a criminal
record. The resurrection of Christ's crucified dead body allows God to wipe
their records clean so that on the books, it's as though they've never been
anything but 100% innocent so that when the books are opened per Rev
20:11-15 there will be nothing found in them with which folks may be
accused.

● 1Cor 15:17 . . If Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your
sins.

This clearing of one's guilt that I'm talking about is obtained via the kindness
and generosity of God through belief in the resurrection of Christ's crucified
dead body. If the Devil can succeed in convincing people that Jesus' crucified
body is still dead or, even better yet, make them question whether the man
even existed at all; then they will fail to obtain an acquittal, and
consequently end up coming out on the wrong side of things.
_

 

[Ritajanice]

Therefore you need to check to see if you're in the faith. Intellectual faith is not of God as you say, any more than your insults and false accusations and implications/insinuations regarding another's salvation are the fruit of the Spirit, which fruit would be THE sign that you are born again.

I suggest you read your own posts...on the subject of fruit bearing?

False accusations you say....please check your own posts, much to be desired imo.

Stop with your hypocrisy....

You missed out the rest of my text?

I insulted no one?

I said you must be Born Again...if one isn’t, that they don’t have the Spirit, then they are none of his.

I post scripture..



Intellectual doesn’t birth you in the Spirit...only God can do that.

My post in its entirety....?

Eternal life comes from God, via the Holy Spirit...when he gives us the Spiritual rebirth?....Spirit gives birth to spirit?....

How does God do that?

Becoming Born Again..by God...not by “ YOU” is a “ Living “ Birth....

Which means what exactly?

Without being Born of God, how can you understand scripture ?

We have received that new heart and Spirit within?

When we are supernaturally birthed....by God, via the Holy Spirit?

If one hasn’t been birthed in the Spirit...how could they possibly understand the Living word of God, when he testifies with our spirit that we are his children?

Therefore those who don’t understand Born Again..which is the Living word of God....they need to check to see if they are in the faith.

We shouldn’t be judging the heart of anyone....but, we must be Born Again to see the Kingdom of God...once we receive the new heart and Spirit within....

You can see through the eyes of the Spirit...were In God’s Kingdom...when he births us in the Spirit.

All according to his purpose and plan for our lives.

A Born Again....” GLORIFIES GOD”......what do you think the rebirth is all about?

Intellectual knowledge?

 

[CadyandZoe]

If we can NEVER be unsaved what's the point of defending it? It's like OSASers are trying to convince each other.

There is no point at which a person is "unsaved". The Bible teaches that salvation occurs at the last Trump when we will all be transformed. The question that plagues the minds of many believers is, "Am I one of those whom God is saving?" This is a pressing question because the answer determines whether you and I live in hope or fear. Jesus and the apostles recognized this and taught us to look for the markers of those whom God is saving in ourselves. If we see these markers in ourselves, we can know with certainty that our hope will come true. A positive answer will bring much joy.

 

[Jack]

There is no point at which a person is "unsaved". The Bible teaches that salvation occurs at the last Trump when we will all be transformed.

Romans 10
9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

 

[Taken]

So the MANY warnings in the NT are not for Christians? Really?

When you change the Conversation of “Born Again” to “Christian”…you have wandered off point.

The word “Christian” does not mean “born again”.

A person saying they ARE a Christian, does not mean they ARE “born again”.

The many “warnings” in Scripture “ARE” for all of manKIND “WHOSE BELIEFS” (ie whose standing) covers a WIDE range…such as;
* un-belief IN God
* un-belief IN God AND Christ Jesus
* Belief IN God, but not Christ Jesus
* Belief IN other gods
* Belief IN other christs
* Belief IN God AND Christ Jesus.
* Belief IN one’s MIND
* Belief IN one’s Heart (natural spirit)

All Scripture IS True, YET ALL Scripture DOES NOT apply the SAME to each of the WIDE range of individuals “BELIEFS”. (Standing).

Which of THOSE Listed, “ARE” Sanctified (ie: set apart, BECAUSE they “ARE” born again?)
NONE!

(It does not matter IF, any of them Call themselves…”Believers” Christians, Messianic Jews, Man, Woman, Israel, Gentiles, Methodists, Baptists, Catholics,, Mormons, Muslims, Atheists, Neighbors, Brothers, on and on.)

Any individual CAN “BELIEVE IN” whatever they freely “CHOOSE” and such individual HANGS their “HOPE” in RECEIVING the PROMISE From “THAT” Which they BELIEVE “IN”.

SO WHO specifically is not ON that “LIST” ?
An individual WHO:
* Heartfully BELIEVES IN God * AND Christ Jesus * AND has:
* Repented for having HAD un-belief.
* AND * Confesses” his own hearts Belief.

WHY is that individual SPECIFIC from ALL others ?
Confession of their Heartfull Belief.

WHAT is SPECIFIC (applicable) TO THAT individual?

Sin (of un-belief) Forgiv-EN….…….…………Yes
Set Apart? (Sanctifi-ED)………………………..Yes
Body crucified with Christ.. (Body dead)..Yes
Body washed IN Jesus’ Blood………………..Yes
Soul restored? (Sav-ED)……………………..…Yes
Heart (circumcis-ED)…………………………….Yes
Receipt of New Heart…………………………….Yes
Receipt of Gods SEED……………………………Yes
Gods SEED births new spirit IN Heart…….Yes
Gods Spirit enters IN new Heart……………..Yes
The OLD man is Dead…………………………….Yes
A new “creature” is born…………………………Yes
The New creature “IS” accomplish-ED……Yes
* verified, forgiven, washed, sanctified, justified, covered, sealed, “is” accomplish-ED to be “redeemed” only by the Lord God.
Yes
God WITH that individual Forever……………Yes
That individual Forever with God…………….Yes

WHY is that individual “accomplish-ED” ?
Because …. That which IS Requir-ED By God “IS” fulfill-ED
* Individual Sorry, Repentant FOR his SIN Against God OF having NOT Believed.
* Body willingly given in death unto the Lord God….
* Soul willingly given to God FOR restoration (Saving)
* Natural spirit willingly given to God FOR quickening (Re-Birth)
* God VERIFIED…the individuals Word of BELIEF…..AND….Confession IS TRUE.

* such men WHO DO the SAME…
“ARE” sanctified.
* such men ARE NOT WARN-ED to be cautious of Evil spirits, Wicked men, trying to provoke, sway, tempt THEM away FROM GOD.
* such men are NOT WARN-ED their Salvation can be Lost.
* such men are NOT WARN-ED their Salvation is in Jeopardy of being Revoked.
* such men are NOT hoping to receive what they already HAVE received.
* such men ARE KEPT FROM (anti-God, anti-Christ’s) provocations, tricks, persuasions, temptations….
BY, THROUGH, OF the Power of Gods Spirit… IN the individual.

Does such mens OUTWARD appearance LOOK LIKE (to other men) their same OLD natural Body?
Yes.
Are such men STILL physically occupying their OLD natural Body?
Yes.
What Body is such a man SPIRITUALLY occupying? (Unseen to earthly mens eyes)
* Christ Jesus’ RISEN GLORIFIED BODY.
* what ARE such men and what ARE they called?

Forgiv-EN, wash-ED, Cover-ED, Sanctified-ED, restor-ED, sav-ED, Quicken-ED, Born again, Justifi-ED, sons of Abraham, sons of Promise, sons of God, friends of Jesus, IN Christ, Christ’s Church, brothers IN Christ, citizens of Gods Kingdom.

WHAT are such individuals NOT appointed TO to suffer? Nor shall suffer?
Never again in Sin Against God.
The Lambs Wrath.
The Devils Wrath.
Gods Wrath.
Condemnation

An individual Calling himself A Christian, a man, a woman, a Baptist, a Mormon, a Catholic, a Jew, a whatever…does not identify he has become Sanctifi-ED…ie his body, soul, spirit IS Accomplish-ED, according to Gods order, way, truth, life.

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Jack]

The word “Christian” does not mean “born again”.

Seriously???