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    Do these two points defeat the "moral argument" for God's existence

    Truth-OT, perhaps I'm not understanding you. Are you saying that objective moral absolutes don't exist ? Such that morals are relative and subjective to societies ? Ok, then on that view: Were the Nazis just subjectively wrong, on your view (Ie.: you don't "prefer" that), or were they...
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    Do these two points defeat the "moral argument" for God's existence

    Marks, good point. If we can see in our recent past, that the vote for or against abortion has changed (1950s vs now), then this dashes the hopes that evolution can explain objective moral absolutes. I mean, you can't have it both ways : Abortion is either murder, or it's not. Evolution...
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    Do these two points defeat the "moral argument" for God's existence

    Cristo Rei, thanx for chiming in. I liked your input and will implement those examples into the conversation. Thanx ! And yes: I made triple sure to "define all the words". So that the confusing jumps back and forth between objective and subjective morals doesn't occur (word conflation)...
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    Do these two points defeat the "moral argument" for God's existence

    thanx for the welcome ! And yes: After he and I are done with the moral argument, then yes: The "first cause" (what caused the "big bang", blah blah) is where I'm going next. thanx for your input ! :)
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    Do these two points defeat the "moral argument" for God's existence

    Haha, Really ? No, this is not made up :) This is a metal detecting hobbyist buddy of mine. And the subject of God came up awhile back, and we began talking. I chose the "moral argument" route to discuss the existence of God, and these are indeed his pushbacks. So why would that ring...
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    Do these two points defeat the "moral argument" for God's existence

    According to IF YOU GAUGED THE SENTIMENTS of all of mankind. Not just a fluke outlier example at a chosen moment. He would answer : "The evolution of ALL of mankind, if a theoretical vote could be taken, will make one morality the "best" morality ". And as I'm sure you'd agree, there is...
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    Do these two points defeat the "moral argument" for God's existence

    Yeshua : Thanx for chiming in. This doesn't address his objection that by trying to use Germany/Nazis, for that 10-ish year period of world history, is not gauging ALL of mankind. It's only looking at an "outlier ". Thus he'd say (and is no doubt correct), that if you polled ALL OF EUROPE...
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    Do these two points defeat the "moral argument" for God's existence

    prayer-warrior : Thanx for taking a stab at my question ! a) You are right, that in the late 1930s and early 1940s, THERE WAS IN FACT a societal pulse of anti- antisemitism going on in Germany. Not everyone, of course, but surprisingly a majority. So you're right that the Nazi ideals were...
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    Do these two points defeat the "moral argument" for God's existence

    No takers ? :(
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    Not = Born this way.

    We Christians need-not-be annoyed when the "born gay" lines get rolled out. Because, ... THINK OF IT : Even us straight men are "born with" certain proclivities . Eg.: temptations to things that we simply have to say "no" to . For example: As a straight man, it would be very "natural " for...
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    Do these two points defeat the "moral argument" for God's existence

    Hello. I'm talking to an atheist friend. And am using the route of the "moral argument" as the method to show him evidence of God's existence. And as can be expected, he pushed back the the usual atheist's stance and said "evolution can explain objective moral absolutes". To which I...
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