Those who are watching will understand the time of the nearness of that day.

The PuP · Saturday at 1:29 PM

Mat 24:33 KJV So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

The word 'see' (v.33) corresponds to the word watch, the context of the surrounding verses.

When this subject is discussed, the oft quoted verse is, "no man KNOWS the day or hour, in which the Son of man shall come". But this word "knows" is the same as the word 'see' in verse 33; but it is different from the word 'know' in the same verse 33. The day that Jesus said we would "'KNOW' that is near, even at the doors", [v.33] uses the word ginosko, which means to understand with the mind WHEN that day is near.

But the word 'see' [v.33] is a different word. It uses the Greek word "eido", which is often, but not always translated also as "to know". But it is also translated as "see". This word eido (know) is better understood to mean to experience with the senses. So, when Jesus said that no man KNOWS the day or hour, he is saying that no man has experienced the day or hour WHEN the time of the Son of man's coming IS NEAR. It's not the actual when (the very day) of his coming that people don't "know" about, but it's the events that precedes his coming that people do not "know". His actual coming is a (one) specific time event. The events that precede his coming, in and of itself, constitutes a period of time, and not just a specific time.

Do you see what I'm saying? Consider again what is said in verse 33.

Mat 24:33 KJV So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.

The word "see" there refers to a period of time, and not a specific day...i.e., the NEARNESS of that day... that is known. But that word "know" is a specific time, not a period of time. The word see/eido is what refers to a period of time. So when we experience with the senses [ALL THESE THINGS], you will then know the specifics of the time of his coming IS NEAR. Rephrasing, he says,
We will know (with the mind of understanding) that the specific time of his coming (IS NEAR) when we see (experience with the senses) the events that will take place before his coming...a period of time.

He is saying that we must watch (by seeing) for a series of events that are to take place before his coming, in order to be ready for his coming. When Jesus then continued (by talking) about the days of Noah [i.e., a period of time] that precedes his actual coming. He says that that day came upon them unawares because they weren't watching for the ultimate sign of the impending event of the actual flood, WHEN Noah entered the ark. They were so engrossed with living life [marrying and giving in marriage, working in the field, sleeping in bed] that they missed the sign that forebode the imminency of the flood... Noah entering the ark. If we fail to watch for the signs (we WILL experience them) that are to precede the specific day of his coming, we will not be ready and that day will come upon us unawares.

Mat 24:34-51 KJV 34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. 36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. 45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Be Blessed
The PuP

Davy · Sunday at 1:02 PM

That's really just a roundabout way of saying that Lord Jesus gave us those SIGNS of His Olivet discourse about the 'end' to be watching leading up to His future coming. No man knows the 'specific' day or hour of His coming, like He said. But that doesn't mean He didn't give us specific events to be 'watching' that reveal the ballpark timing of His future coming.

Men's false pre-trib rapture school are the main ones who reject Christ's commandment to watch those SIGNS of the end He gave His Church. They don't want their followers to actually 'watch' the times of the seasons leading up to Christ's coming. They want their followers to stay deceived, so they will be well prepared to instead accept the first supernatural messiah that comes, which will be the pseudo-Christ which Jesus warned about in Matthew 24:23-26 (which is actually in the singular tense if the actual context of those verses are kept).

In Revelation 11 with the killing of God's "two witnesses" and their dead bodies left laying in the street, and then after three and a half days they arise, that points to within the hour of Christ's future coming. So who is afraid to declare by that then, that we can... 'know'... to the hour... of Christ's future coming by that Rev.11 event?

The PuP · Sunday at 5:02 PM

Davy said:
That's really just a roundabout way of saying that Lord Jesus gave us those SIGNS of His Olivet discourse about the 'end' to be watching leading up to His future coming. No man knows the 'specific' day or hour of His coming, like He said. But that doesn't mean He didn't give us specific events to be 'watching' that reveal the ballpark timing of His future coming.

Men's false pre-trib rapture school are the main ones who reject Christ's commandment to watch those SIGNS of the end He gave His Church. They don't want their followers to actually 'watch' the times of the seasons leading up to Christ's coming. They want their followers to stay deceived, so they will be well prepared to instead accept the first supernatural messiah that comes, which will be the pseudo-Christ which Jesus warned about in Matthew 24:23-26 (which is actually in the singular tense if the actual context of those verses are kept).

In Revelation 11 with the killing of God's "two witnesses" and their dead bodies left laying in the street, and then after three and a half days they arise, that points to within the hour of Christ's future coming. So who is afraid to declare by that then, that we can... 'know'... to the hour... of Christ's future coming by that Rev.11 event?

What Jesus said about "no man KNOWS the day or hour", has nothing to do with "the ballpark hour of His Return. It has to do so with the magnitude of events that the world will experience in the days preceding the time when his coming will then truly be imminent. It's not imminent now and won't be until "this generation" experiences ALL these things that we are to be watching for. No man KNOWS is not about knowing [understanding with the mind beforehand] WHEN, but rather it's about knowing [experientially] with the senses. Believing that the rapture is imminent (when it's not) can result in one not being ready when those things come to pass. It's not that I don't believe that the time of his coming is near...it's just not imminently near. I believe all those SIGNS that Jesus spoke about will all be fulfilled soon. The real danger that Jesus spoke about is that these days (of coming) tribulation will end BEFORE Jesus does come again. Peace will ensue and this is when people will begin to say, PEACE AND SAFETY. THEN Comes the sudden destruction from the day of the Lord. Granted, a whole lot of people, saved and unsaved alike will perish in those days of tribulation, [the signs that we are to be watching for], but it's those survivors, who didn't know what to be watching for, who will fall prey to the proclamations of peace. These are the days when [Peter says] scoffers will arise in those days, saying, 'where is the promise of his coming/parousia. It is only then, that the words of Jesus apply....
When you [experience] see all these things, then KNOW [understand with your mind] that THAT day is now [ imminently ] near.
Be Blessed
The PuP

The PuP · Sunday at 5:42 PM

The PuP said:
What Jesus said about "no man KNOWS the day or hour", has nothing to do with "the ballpark hour of His Return. It has to do so with the magnitude of events that the world will experience in the days preceding the time when his coming will then truly be imminent. It's not imminent now and won't be until "this generation" experiences ALL these things that we are to be watching for. No man KNOWS is not about knowing [understanding with the mind beforehand] WHEN, but rather it's about knowing [experientially] with the senses. Believing that the rapture is imminent (when it's not) can result in one not being ready when those things come to pass. It's not that I don't believe that the time of his coming is near...it's just not imminently near. I believe all those SIGNS that Jesus spoke about will all be fulfilled soon. The real danger that Jesus spoke about is that these days (of coming) tribulation will end BEFORE Jesus does come again. Peace will ensue and this is when people will begin to say, PEACE AND SAFETY. THEN Comes the sudden destruction from the day of the Lord. Granted, a whole lot of people, saved and unsaved alike will perish in those days of tribulation, [the signs that we are to be watching for], but it's those survivors, who didn't know what to be watching for, who will fall prey to the proclamations of peace. These are the days when [Peter says] scoffers will arise in those days, saying, 'where is the promise of his coming/parousia. It is only then, that the words of Jesus apply....
When you [experience] see all these things, then KNOW [understand with your mind] that THAT day is now [ imminently ] near.
Be Blessed
The PuP

Another mistake that I see people make, concerning the Olivet discourse, is when Jesus said this:

Mat 24:15-21 KJV 15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) ....
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

[Followed by];

Mat 24:29-30 KJV 29 Immediately after the TRIBULATION of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

People make the mistake of thinking that "the TRIBULATION of those days", IS the great tribulation that Jesus spoke of in verse 21. It's not. I guess people forget or fail to recognize, that ALL THESE THINGS shall come on this generation... this ONE generation! Matt 24:34. Too many people stumble over who THIS GENERATION refers to. It's the generation that experiences [KNOWS!] all these things. Jesus is saying that the AoD is inexplicably connected to the days of great tribulation. They (days off great tribulation) WILL follow after the AoD. Just not immediately after. THAT DAY, that Jesus said would then be imminently near, is not just his coming, but it's the day that no man knows the day. Because it's unlike any that the world has ever experienced. It is the Day of the Lord. According to Joel 2:1,2, the DOTL is what is what constitutes the time of greatest trouble that the world will ever know:

Joe 2:1-2 KJV 1 Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; 2 A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations.

If any one (of any eschatological persuasion) believe they will miss out on the signs that Jesus told us to be watching for, they run the risk of not being ready for those days. Jesus said to "Watch AND be ready". You can't be ready for all of those events, if you aren't watching. You might be lucky and perish in the early days of "that tribulation", and hold fast to your faith, or you might be called to withstand all those events.

Luk 21:36 KJV Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape ALL THESE THINGS that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

Be Blessed
The PuP

Rockerduck · Sunday at 6:08 PM

The Child of God has nothing to worry about, and we shall know Christ's coming.

1 Thessalonians 5:2-5 - For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night, for when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness.

Douggg · Sunday at 6:48 PM

Generation time frame - the parable of the fig tree generation not passing away is one indication that Jesus's return is near. 1967+70 years = 2037 not later than.

Emergence of the little horn - a Jew becomes leader over a panel of ten EU leaders, before the Gog/Magog event..

The 7 years begin - right after the Gog/Magog event attack on Israel. By the end of 2030 not later than.

all of the endtimes time frames fit with in the 7 years that follow the Gog/Magog attack.

Dave Watchman · Sunday at 8:15 PM

The PuP said:
It's not that I don't believe that the time of his coming is near...it's just not imminently near. I believe all those SIGNS that Jesus spoke about will all be fulfilled soon.

I sure don't know either. We will have to wait and see. I have no choice right now but to think it's imminently near.

There's 3 pretty good dates I see. The 2030 is logical and quite popular. The Dr. Wideman number of 2027. His is not as good as mine. Mine has a lot more historical corroboration. And it's the one I see right about anytime now. It must be happening now. As if we're already in the coming of the Son of Man, the parade of apocalyptic events preceding His arrival. I always have to default to the earliest date anyways.

So I think that the time, times, and half a time are fulfilled. The 2300 evenings and mornings are completed. The 1260 days of Revelation 11 are fulfilled, we should be in the tail end of the 3.5 days, (which are 3.5 years). The 5 months of Revelation 9 are done, and occurred right on time within the larger heptad. The 42 months of Revelation 13 are completed. We should be in the very tail end of the second set of 70 weeks.

We should be just on the verge of the 1000 years of Revelation 20.

I don't know if I'm right. But some of you guys will wish I'm right. It should be soon. It should mean everybody's marked, and or sealed. The inner court is measured, the judgement of the living is completed. We should just be waiting for some more of our brothers and fellow servants to be born. And then that's it. Only the Father can know the day that this hits.

I don't know how it's going to happen, but I bet it will be fast. Like lightning shining from the east. I bet it is going to be a surprise.

The PuP · Sunday at 8:47 PM

Dave Watchman said:
I sure don't know either. We will have to wait and see. I have no choice right now but to think it's imminently near.

There's 3 pretty good dates I see. The 2030 is logical and quite popular. The Dr. Wideman number of 2027. His is not as good as mine. Mine has a lot more historical corroboration. And it's the one I see right about anytime now. It must be happening now. As if we're already in the coming of the Son of Man, the parade of apocalyptic events preceding His arrival. I always have to default to the earliest date anyways.

So I think that the time, times, and half a time are fulfilled. The 2300 evenings and mornings are completed. The 1260 days of Revelation 11 are fulfilled, we should be in the tail end of the 3.5 days, (which are 3.5 years). The 5 months of Revelation 9 are done, and occurred right on time within the larger heptad. The 42 months of Revelation 13 are completed. We should be in the very tail end of the second set of 70 weeks.

We should be just on the verge of the 1000 years of Revelation 20.

I don't know if I'm right. But some of you guys will wish I'm right. It should be soon. It should mean everybody's marked, and or sealed. The inner court is measured, the judgement of the living is completed. We should just be waiting for some more of our brothers and fellow servants to be born. And then that's it. Only the Father can know the day that this hits.

I don't know how it's going to happen, but I bet it will be fast. Like lightning shining from the east. I bet it is going to be a surprise.

2030 or 2033 (1000 years after resurrection date best guesses) seem to be a most logical choice for things to wrap up. Fall 2026 to spring 2027 could be a significant year too. All these years are why I believe his coming is near, but not imminent. Our duty is to not let our views of how we think things will turn out interfere with how the Bible says they will turn out. We must always be watching.
If our expectations can't adjust to match prophetic fulfillment, our readiness may be compromised. Jesus said to watch AND BE READY. Our readiness is dependent upon our watchfulness.
Be Blessed
The PuP

Douggg · Sunday at 9:35 PM

The PuP said:
All these years are why I believe his coming is near, but not imminent.

Degree of nearness increases as the parable of the fig tree generation ages.

Imminent is near the end of the 7 years of Daniel 9:27/Ezekiel 39:9 when the kings of the earth gather their armies at Armageddon to prepare to make war on Jesus and His army.

yes, we must always be watching.

Davy · 2025-04-21T02:14:01-0500

The PuP said:
What Jesus said about "no man KNOWS the day or hour", has nothing to do with "the ballpark hour of His Return.

Well that's an idiotic statement. It has everything... to do with what I had said.

The PuP said:
It has to do so with the magnitude of events that the world will experience in the days preceding the time when his coming will then truly be imminent.

That "imminent" idea is from MEN's DOCTRINES, not God's Word. It supposes that Christ's coming can happen at 'any moment', which is false. That is why that idea is preached by the deceivers on the false Pre-trib Rapture theory from men. That theory is even sometimes called the "any moment" doctrine. It is a FALSE doctrine, not written anywhere... in God's Word.

The PuP said:
It's not imminent now and won't be until "this generation" experiences ALL these things that we are to be watching for. No man KNOWS is not about knowing [understanding with the mind beforehand] WHEN, but rather it's about knowing [experientially] with the senses. Believing that the rapture is imminent (when it's not) can result in one not being ready when those things come to pass. It's not that I don't believe that the time of his coming is near...it's just not imminently near.

That's too many... uses of that false idea of "imminent". Even if you do not believe on man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory, and are not intending to use that "imminent" word for a pre-trib coming, those on that false doctrine will still think you are pointing to that false pre-trib rapture. It's because of how that word is popularly used by the pre-trib rapture school for their false man-made doctrine.

The PuP said:
I believe all those SIGNS that Jesus spoke about will all be fulfilled soon. The real danger that Jesus spoke about is that these days (of coming) tribulation will end BEFORE Jesus does come again. Peace will ensue and this is when people will begin to say, PEACE AND SAFETY. THEN Comes the sudden destruction from the day of the Lord. Granted, a whole lot of people, saved and unsaved alike will perish in those days of tribulation, [the signs that we are to be watching for], but it's those survivors, who didn't know what to be watching for, who will fall prey to the proclamations of peace. These are the days when [Peter says] scoffers will arise in those days, saying, 'where is the promise of his coming/parousia. It is only then, that the words of Jesus apply....
When you [experience] see all these things, then KNOW [understand with your mind] that THAT day is now [ imminently ] near.
Be Blessed
The PuP

The event that Apostle Paul taught about the time when the deceived will be saying, "Peace and safety" (per 1 Thess.5), will be during... the time of "great tribulation". Lord Jesus showed in His Olivet discourse that the coming "great tribulation" is going to be a time of world peace, though a fake peace. That is why He said we'd hear of wars and rumors of wars, but not to be troubled because those things must be, BUT THE END IS NOT YET. That 'end' He was pointing to is the time of "great tribulation", the latter 1260 days of the latter Daniel 9:27 symbolic "one week". The opposite time of wars and rumors of war is a time of peace.

Man's false pre-trib rapture school instead preaches scare tactics about that future time of "great tribulation", like it's going to be a time of world chaos and WWIII, etc. It won't be. Even Daniel 8 shows the coming Antichrist will destroy many using 'peace', and that craft will prosper in his hand.

It will be a time when the majority... of the whole world will believe that God has returned to earth, because of those great signs, wonders, and miracles the coming false-Messiah is going work on earth. And when those of Christ's elect that are here refuse... to bow to that coming false-Messiah like the majority will, the majority of the world will be against us, and even deceived family members will turn us in, thinking to help us understand that first one coming is Lord Jesus Christ when it will not be (Mark 13).

Thus the coming "great tribulation" will be about 'deception' by a false-Christ with the power of miracles like Jesus, and not all out war and chaos. Those who reject that coming false-Messiah will easily stand out from the rest of the world, and become easy targets for Satan and his host, and that is what Christ's elect are to be prepared for during the coming time of "great tribulation". Some of us, but not all, will be delivered up to give a Testimony for Christ via The Holy Spirit against the beast.

So there's a SIGN that Jesus gave His faithful Church about the end which most just bypass. So how are they actually 'watching' the SIGNS Jesus gave His Church? Most are not, or have misinterpreted His SIGNS of the end leading up to His future return. And that includes the major SIGN He revealed in Revelation 11 three and a half days just prior to His coming.

Zao is life · 2025-04-21T06:12:29-0500

The PuP said:
It's not the actual when (the very day) of his coming that people don't "know" about, but it's the events that precedes his coming that people do not "know".

Be Blessed
The PuP

I disagree because in verse 33 Jesus is referring to the signs of His coming and of the end of the age that He had just finished giving, but in verse 36 He's referring to the actual day and hour of His coming.

Matthew 24
33 when ye shall see [horao] all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth [eido] no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

It's pretty obvious that those who see the signs and know that His coming is near, will know this before the day and hour of His coming, but will only know the day and hour of His coming after His coming.

But it does not tell us when the signs would be seen any more than it tells us the actual day and hour of His coming.

Zao is life · 2025-04-21T07:22:51-0500

Davy said:
That's too many... uses of that false idea of "imminent". Even if you do not believe on man's false Pre-trib Rapture theory, and are not intending to use that "imminent" word for a pre-trib coming, those on that false doctrine will still think you are pointing to that false pre-trib rapture. It's because of how that word is popularly used by the pre-trib rapture school for their false man-made doctrine.

Personally I've never assumed that when someone uses the word "imminent" that he's a pre-tribber but if it's the case then we must take the word back. It's an English word in the English dictionary and we don't have to let pre-tribbers take ownership of it.

Davy said:
The event that Apostle Paul taught about the time when the deceived will be saying, "Peace and safety" (per 1 Thess.5), will be during... the time of "great tribulation". Lord Jesus showed in His Olivet discourse that the coming "great tribulation" is going to be a time of world peace, though a fake peace. That is why He said we'd hear of wars and rumors of wars, but not to be troubled because those things must be, BUT THE END IS NOT YET. That 'end' He was pointing to is the time of "great tribulation", the latter 1260 days of the latter Daniel 9:27 symbolic "one week". The opposite time of wars and rumors of war is a time of peace.

Man's false pre-trib rapture school instead preaches scare tactics about that future time of "great tribulation", like it's going to be a time of world chaos and WWIII, etc. It won't be. Even Daniel 8 shows the coming Antichrist will destroy many using 'peace', and that craft will prosper in his hand.

It will be a time when the majority... of the whole world will believe that God has returned to earth, because of those great signs, wonders, and miracles the coming false-Messiah is going work on earth. And when those of Christ's elect that are here refuse... to bow to that coming false-Messiah like the majority will, the majority of the world will be against us, and even deceived family members will turn us in, thinking to help us understand that first one coming is Lord Jesus Christ when it will not be (Mark 13).

Thus the coming "great tribulation" will be about 'deception' by a false-Christ with the power of miracles like Jesus, and not all out war and chaos. Those who reject that coming false-Messiah will easily stand out from the rest of the world, and become easy targets for Satan and his host, and that is what Christ's elect are to be prepared for during the coming time of "great tribulation". Some of us, but not all, will be delivered up to give a Testimony for Christ via The Holy Spirit against the beast.

So there's a SIGN that Jesus gave His faithful Church about the end which most just bypass. So how are they actually 'watching' the SIGNS Jesus gave His Church? Most are not, or have misinterpreted His SIGNS of the end leading up to His future return. And that includes the major SIGN He revealed in Revelation 11 three and a half days just prior to His coming.

Yes. The sign you are talking about lies in what Jesus said after He said "be not troubled by those things because the end is not yet", when He began to use the word "then" [tote - "at the time of"].

Matthew 24
14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then [tote - at the time of] shall the end come.

It's at the time of the end.

9-13 Tote (at the time of the end) shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
And tote (at the time of the end) shall many be offended, stumble made fall away [skandalisthēsontai], and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14 This gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then [tote - at the time of] shall the end come.

Regardless of what you believe (or besides what you believe about) the identity of the temple and holy city of Revelation 11:1-2, I agree with your post.

Spiritual Israelite · 2025-04-21T08:55:33-0500

Rockerduck said:
The Child of God has nothing to worry about, and we shall know Christ's coming.

1 Thessalonians 5:2-5 - For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night, for when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. 5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness.

That is not saying we will ever know the day or hour of His coming before He comes again. That is saying that we are expecting Him to come, unlike those who are in spiritual darkness. So, while we don't know exactly when He is coming, we will not be caught by complete surprise when He does come unlike those who are in spiritual darkness and not expecting Him to come at all.

The PuP · 2025-04-21T09:04:54-0500

Davy said:
The event that Apostle Paul taught about the time when the deceived will be saying, "Peace and safety" (per 1 Thess.5), will be during... the time of "great tribulation". Lord Jesus showed in His Olivet discourse that the coming "great tribulation" is going to be a time of world peace, though a fake peace.

The apostle said that the DOTL comes in like a thief, and not sudden destruction coming in like a thief:

1Th 5:2-6 KJV 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

The DOTL is not the "[sic AFTER THE]days of that tribulation". It comes after "that tribulation" The DOTL does not come until after the "the sun is darkened and the moon not give her light". We know that from Joel when he says that it comes "before the great and notable day of the Lord comes..."

Joe 2:31 KJV The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

When Jesus said that "of THAT DAY and hour, no man knows the day". He is talking about the DOTL. He is talking about the greatest tribulation that the world will ever know:

Mat 24:21 KJV For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

It's not "the tribulation of those days" that will the worst ever known, but he is talking about the DOTL. Don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying that the "tribulation of those days" won't be great. It might (and probably will) be greatest known up to that time. But the DOTL will be the worst. We know that from Joel 2:1,2. Even John says that the great multitude that he sees in Rev 7 comes out of great tribulation. But he didn't say that they came out of the greatest tribulation. That is a fallacious argument of man.

Rev 7:14 KJV And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The DOTL comes in like a thief, not tribulation. The sudden destruction that comes is that of being thrown into the lake of fire at Armageddon. The DOTL is also when the kingdom shall arrive. And Jesus said that it does not come with observation. This is the jixt of what John said about the 7th trumpet. The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of God and his Christ. It is the time for the judgment of the dead because this is when the Father places all things under Jesus's feet. Gotta go.

Be Blessed
The PuP

Spiritual Israelite · 2025-04-21T09:10:20-0500

The PuP said:
The apostle said that the DOTL comes in like a thief, and not sudden destruction coming in like a thief:

1Th 5:2-6 KJV 2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. 4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. 6 Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.

The DOTL is not the "[sic AFTER THE]days of that tribulation". It comes after "that tribulation" The DOTL does not come until after the "the sun is darkened and the moon not give her light". We know that from Joel when he says that it comes "before the great and notable day of the Lord comes..."

Joe 2:31 KJV The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible day of the LORD come.

When Jesus said that "of THAT DAY and hour, no man knows the day". He is talking about the DOTL. He is talking about the greatest tribulation that the world will ever know:

Mat 24:21 KJV For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

It's not "the tribulation of those days" that will the worst ever known, but he is talking about the DOTL. Don't get me wrong here. I'm not saying that the "tribulation of those days" won't be great. It might (and probably will) be greatest known up to that time. But the DOTL will be the worst. We know that from Joel 2:1,2. Even John says that the great multitude that he sees in Rev 7 comes out of great tribulation. But he didn't say that they came out of the greatest tribulation. That is a fallacious argument of man.

Rev 7:14 KJV And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The DOTL comes in like a thief, not tribulation. The sudden destruction that comes is that of being thrown into the lake of fire at Armageddon. The DOTL is also when the kingdom shall arrive. And Jesus said that it does not come with observation. This is the jixt of what John said about the 7th trumpet. The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of God and his Christ. It is the time for the judgment of the dead because this is when the Father places all things under Jesus's feet. Gotta go.

The Father placed all things under Jesus's feet long ago already when He raised Him from the dead and placed Him in a position of authority over all things at His right hand in heaven.

Ephesians 1:19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

Jesus will deliver the kingdom to the Father when He returns at the end of the age (1 Corinthians 15:22-24, Matthew 13:40-43).

The PuP · 2025-04-21T17:19:38-0500

Spiritual Israelite said:
The Father placed all things under Jesus's feet long ago already when He raised Him from the dead and placed Him in a position of authority over all things at His right hand in heaven.

Ephesians 1:19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

Jesus will deliver the kingdom to the Father when He returns at the end of the age (1 Corinthians 15:22-24, Matthew 13:40-43).

Verse 22 says that God appointed/gave to him to be the head over everything by seating him at his right hand. That's like saying that J.D. Vance is appointed to run the USA. Yes he is, but he's not the one in charge. He's only the vice president. Jesus is God's number one vice president. And will remain that way as long as he is seated at God's right hand. God is sitting on the throne and not Jesus. And that is the essence of what Psalm 110 says... sit at my right hand until I make thine enemies thy footstool. Thine and thy [Psalm 110:1] are referring to Christ. So one only has to ask the question: Who is making Christ's enemies his (Christ's) footstool? God or Jesus? The phrase "until I make" make it clear that God is the one to subdue Christ's enemies. So if one were to assume the God is active in presently subduing Christ's enemies, that nullifies your hypothesis that Christ is now reigning, which he is not. And 1Cor15 says that when God subdues/subordinates that authority to Christ, that nothing, save only God himself, is to be subject unto Christ. Do you believe that when God subordinates all authority to Christ, [whether that is a past, present or future doing] that Christ is lacking power over any of his enemies? Absolutely not. So then it would be Christ who is subduing his enemies. Which contradicts Psalm 110:1 which says (according to your theology) that God is the one to subdue/ subordinate Christ's enemies. When it comes time for God to place all enemies under Christ's feet, Jesus is not going to be needing God's help to subdue his enemies. At the time of writing the many n.t. passages that speak of this event, all of them were written with Christ sitting at the right hand of God sitting on his throne.

What you are missing about Psalm 110 is that Christ must leave the Father's right hand before he can rule in the midst of his enemies. The enemies of God don't rule in heaven. For Jesus said to pray that God's will be done on earth as it is in heaven...total subjugation to the one sitting on the throne. God is the one that continues to sit on the throne. God rules now and will continue to rule until he subordinates his power over his enemies unto Christ!

1Co 15:25 KJV For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

Even that verse says that God is still reigning. Even a fool can see that the last enemy of death has not been defeated... meaning that God is the one who is reigning now. Not Christ.

Under your premise, God is the one who is reigning (not Christ) because he is still subduing Christ's enemies. Death has not been defeated, because only Christ has been resurrected to immortality.

1Ti 6:15-16 KJV 15 Which in his times HE SHALL SHEW, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; 16 WHO ONLY HATH IMMORTALITY, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

We have received the promise of everlasting life, but not yet the gift of immortality...the resurrection of life. Christ indeed has been appointed to be the head of all things. But the exercise of those appointed powers will not take place until God sends him to rule in the midst of his enemies.

Psa 110:2 KJV The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.

Be Blessed
The PuP

Spiritual Israelite · 2025-04-21T17:34:49-0500

The PuP said:
Verse 22 says that God appointed/gave to him to be the head over everything by seating him at his right hand. That's like saying that J.D. Vance is appointed to run the USA. Yes he is, but he's not the one in charge.

No, it is not like that at all. This is not a valid analogy at all. That is not what it means for Jesus to be at the Father's right hand. It specifically says that God put all things under His feet, so why don't you accept that? If He is subject to the Father right now, then why does it say He becomes subject to the Father in the future after He delivers the kingdom to the Father (1 Corinthians 15:24-28)? That would not make sense if He is already subject to the Father while He reigns at His right hand.

What you're saying is like saying that Jesus is not actually the head over the church right now. The context of Him having all things under Him is stated in the same sense and timing of Him being the head over all things in the church. Do you try to say that He is not the head over all things in the church? Your argument is extremely weak.

The PuP · 2025-04-21T18:31:29-0500

Spiritual Israelite said:
No, it is not like that at all. This is not a valid analogy at all. That is not what it means for Jesus to be at the Father's right hand. It specifically says that God put all things under His feet, so why don't you accept that? If He is subject to the Father right now, then why does it say He becomes subject to the Father in the future after He delivers the kingdom to the Father (1 Corinthians 15:24-28)? That would not make sense if He is already subject to the Father while He reigns at His right hand.

What you're saying is like saying that Jesus is not actually the head over the church right now. The context of Him having all things under Him is stated in the same sense and timing of Him being the head over all things in the church. Do you try to say that He is not the head over all things in the church? Your argument is extremely weak.

It's not hard to understand. God rules now over everything, including the Son. When God subordinates (in the future), Christ will then be the one who exercises the authority that is appointed to him. Whenever it comes time to exercise that authority, the scripture is merely clarifying that he has authority over everything and everyone, except the one who gave him that authority. It's just like the commander of our armed forces. The president is the one who gives and allows him to exercise that authority over everyone except him who gave him the authority.

Spiritual Israelite · 2025-04-21T18:33:09-0500

The PuP said:
It's not hard to understand.

And, yet, you still don't understand it. So be it. If Jesus is not now literally reigning over all things then that would mean He also right now is not the head over all things in the church.

The PuP · 2025-04-21T19:10:58-0500

Spiritual Israelite said:
And, yet, you still don't understand it. So be it. If Jesus is not now literally reigning over all things then that would mean He also right now is not the head over all things in the church.

He is the appointed head (to be). Not the head. The scripture you initiated is the one that says he is appointed to be, and not IS the head.

Those who are watching will understand the time of the nearness of that day.

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