I cant prove it to you, right now God has blinded you to believe a lie, you out of luck if you wanting me to prove it
Limited atonement !
- Thread starter brightfame52
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Hey You!
Active Member
I think you might be getting this a bit backwards.....isn't it rather that anyone needs to be saved and believe the truth first in order to belong to the church? Unless you are basing it on God's foreknowledge. Since we are "elect according to His foreknowledge"...He foreknows who will respond to the gospel call and receive Christ.
Runningman
Active Member
You are simply dismissing what was previously shown you from Scripture, which was a strong rebuttal against limited atonement.
Question, if Judas were never a genuine believer, why should Jesus have empowered him to drive out demons in Matt 10:1-4, something he elsewhere says is impossible for an unbeliever in Matt 12:24-28?
but since they belong to His Church He will do everything needed to save them and cause them to believe the Truth.
Those Christ died for and with His Own Blood obtained Eternal Redemption, because of the efficasiousness of His Blood, they can never come under the penalty of sin, nor the law and satans dominion !
You can get as many Calvinists to support your view, but each is as vacuous as the next. They have no understanding of God as well, let alone atonement. You and they have no definition of atonement. You conflate atonement with how God would use the atonement.
The atonement was not made by man, it was not made to man. The atonement was God using Christ to correct the fall of man, Adam, with another MAN, namely Christ through His Incarnation to reconcile the world back to God. Christ returned the world as God intended it to be before Adam sinned and plunged the world into death, dust to dust.
His death and resurrection is the atonement. It is why it can be summed up with two short verses which addresses the two areas of what Christ accomplished. Heb 2:9, He tasted death for everyone. And I John 2:2, He propitiated the sin of the world. One could also use I John 4:14 He is the Savior of the world.
As to who God is. God is love, It is not something He does, It is who He is, Yet your theory makes God hate literally. You make Him cacpricious, particular, arbitrary when nothing in scripture every describes God with these attributes. Your theory also destroys the purpose of why God created man in the first place. It never describes His relationship with man as being unilateral, as a puppet, as a manipulator but your theory does, which is why it is not scriptural. You portray a God that cannot be found in scripture.
Don't need to. He is a Calvinist with a twist on missions. Just another man who likes his own theory better. Still modern 250 years ago. Hardly the Gospel once given. He does not portray Christ as the Savior of the world. Very simple.
BreadOfLife
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Because, like YOU said - it's a poor tranclation.
Not ALL sins were forgiven. The price was paid for ALL sins - but only the ones who repent and trust in Christ are forgiven . . .
BreadOfLife
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Then, not only bare you a fraud - you have disobeyed a dire ct Biblical command ALWAYS be ready to give a reason for this hopr of yours (2 Pet. 3:15).
Bottonm line: If you can't explain it from Scripture - then it's NOT Scriptural . . .
Runningman
Active Member
Question for all the Reformed theologians on this board since @brightfame52 tapped out.
Question, if Judas were never a genuine believer, why should Jesus have empowered him to drive out demons in Matt 10:1-4, something he elsewhere says is impossible for an unbeliever in Matt 12:24-28?
Question, if Judas were never a genuine believer, why should Jesus have empowered him to drive out demons in Matt 10:1-4, something he elsewhere says is impossible for an unbeliever in Matt 12:24-28?
Ritajanice
Born-Again
In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves.
Ritajanice
Born-Again
Jesus gave authority to all twelve disciples, including Judas. Did Judas cast out demons? Was he able to cast out demons? Scripture never tells us if Judas did cast out demons. In fact, he may not have cast out demons.?
Ritajanice
Born-Again
The Doctrine of Limited Atonement.
@brightfame52 posted scripture on limited atonement...very interesting at that....unfortunately many are so entrenched in what they believe..their minds have been closed..they could well have closed their minds to the truth of limited atonement...who knows...our minds should remain open....unless of course.....
@brightfame52 posted scripture on limited atonement...very interesting at that....unfortunately many are so entrenched in what they believe..their minds have been closed..they could well have closed their minds to the truth of limited atonement...who knows...our minds should remain open....unless of course.....
| Audio Cross Study Comm Greek Verse (Click for Chapter) New International Version They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts. New Living Translation Their minds are full of darkness; they wander far from the life God gives because they have closed their minds and hardened their hearts against him. English Standard Version They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, due to their hardness of heart. Berean Standard Bible They are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts. |
- Matt. 1:21 “And she will bring forth a Son, and you shall call His name Jesus, for He will save His people from their sins.”
- Matt. 20:28 “… just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.”
- Matt. 26:28 “For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
- John 10:11, 15 “I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep. As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.”
- Acts 13:48 “Now when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad and glorified the word of the Lord. And as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed.”
- Acts 20:28 “Therefore take heed to yourselves and to all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.”
- Rom. 8:32-34 “He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us.”
- Eph. 5:25-27 “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for it, that He might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that He might present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish.”
- Heb. 2:17 “Therefore, in all things He had to be made like His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful High Priest in things pertaining to God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.”
- Heb. 9:15, 28 “And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. So Christ was offered once to bear the sins of many. To those who eagerly wait for Him He will appear a second time, apart from sin, for salvation.”
- Rev. 5:9 “And they sang a new song, saying: You are worthy to take the scroll, and to open its seals; for You were slain, and have redeemed us to God by Your blood out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation.”
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Ritajanice
Born-Again
So is those who disagree with limited atonement...it can’t be proven either way....you have those who believe in freewill, you have those who don’t believe in freewill...
Same as in limited atonement...some believe it some don’t...it can’t be proven either way...scripture supports both....
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